Isabella Duke Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Quite why you think having more money will cause problems for the continued running of the NHS is anyone's guess. I love it how you spout stuff like that sentence as though its factual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Duke Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 There is really no evidence that they are reducing the cost to the government, and the profits made by the private health care firms are not available to be re-invested in the NHS but go to the owners of these businesses who, of course, are supporters and funders of the Conservative Party. The owners of these businesses are generally the pension funds of ordinary workers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groucho Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Is this the ordinary workers you mean David Cameron- Nursing and care home tycoon Dolar Popat has given the Conservatives £209,000. The Ugandan-born dad-of-three has amassed an estimated £42million fortune as founder and chief of TLC Group, which provides services for the elderly. Mr Cameron made the businessman a peer shortly after entering No10 in May 2010, and Lord Popat’s donations include a £25,000 gift registered a week after the Tories’ health reforms were unveiled last July . In 2005 Cameron received £1,500 from Care home property company Chiltern Care Holdings - electoral commission Andrew Lansley: Architect of the Health and Social Care bill - John Nash, the chairman of Care UK, gave £21,000 to fund Andrew Lansley’s personal office in November 2009. In a recent interview, a senior director of the firm said that 96 per cent of Care UK’s business, which amounted to more than £400 million last year, came from the NHS. - Hedge fund boss John Nash is one of the major Conservative donors with close ties to the healthcare industry. Nick de Bois: MP for Enfield North - De Bois is the majority shareholder in Rapier Design Group, an events management company heavily involved with the private medical and pharmaceutical industries, and whose clients include leading names such as AstraZeneca. The company was established by the Tory MP in 1998. Last year it had a turnover of £13m. Last April, Rapier Design purchased Hampton Medical Conferences to “strengthen the company’s position in the medical sector”. It is involved in running conferences and other events for private-sector clients, and for NHS hospitals. A number of the company’s clients are “partners” of the National Association of Primary Care (NAPC), a lobby group supporting the health secretary’s plans. Rapier Design Group’s biggest clients stand to profit when the NHS is opened up to wider private-sector involvement. The GP commissioning consortium for south-west Kent, covering 49 GP practices and known as Salveo, has already signed a contract with the pharmaceuticals giant AstraZeneca aimed at improving diagnosis of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease There are 63 Conservative 4 Liberals and 10 Labour MPs with financial links to private health companies . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Peter McKay in his column in today's Daily Mail says that as an exiled Scot he could become a citizen of the new Scotland if the nationalists prevail but he won't be allowed to vote in the independence referendum. Why not?, he asks. Is it because most exiles would vote to remain in the union? He points out there doesn't appear to be any research saying that this is the case. He goes on to ask is it because exiles are not impressed by SNP leader Alex Salmond and his party? He doesn't think that is the case. He also goes on to say that denying the vote to born-and-bred Scots living elsewhere doesn't seem very democratic. He concludes that he wonders if anyone has thought of testing the legal validity of this rule in the courts. Food for thought. You can be sure Salmond does think exiles would vote 'no' or of course he would give them the vote. Politicians of every sort would murder their granny to gain an inch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) The owners of these businesses are generally the pension funds of ordinary workers... So, the pension funds of ordinary workers invest in firms that are taking money which could/should be used to fund patient care from NHS England. There is no evidence at the coal face of NHS Enland that the private firms have improved services and outcomes. Surely the pension funds could/should invest their money differently? Edited February 3, 2014 by smcc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Peter McKay in his column in today's Daily Mail says that as an exiled Scot he could become a citizen of the new Scotland if the nationalists prevail but he won't be allowed to vote in the independence referendum. Why not?, he asks. Is it because most exiles would vote to remain in the union? He points out there doesn't appear to be any research saying that this is the case. He goes on to ask is it because exiles are not impressed by SNP leader Alex Salmond and his party? He doesn't think that is the case. He also goes on to say that denying the vote to born-and-bred Scots living elsewhere doesn't seem very democratic. He concludes that he wonders if anyone has thought of testing the legal validity of this rule in the courts. Food for thought. You can be sure Salmond does think exiles would vote 'no' or of course he would give them the vote. Politicians of every sort would murder their granny to gain an inch. The Scotland Act 1998 (Modification of Schedule 5) Order 2013 confirms the Scottish Parliament's power to legislate for a single-question referendum on independence, held by 31 December 2014. The Edinburgh Agreement (between the Scottish and UK Governments) confirmed that it is for the Scottish Government to propose - and the Scottish Parliament to determine - what the franchise for a referendum on Scottish independence should be. The Bill provides for the franchise for the referendum to be based on that for Scottish Parliament and local government elections, as the franchise for these elections most closely reflects residency in Scotland. This approach follows the precedent of the 1997 referendum on the establishment and tax-varying powers of a Scottish Parliament held under the Referendums (Scotland and Wales) Act 1997. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 The Scotland Act 1998 (Modification of Schedule 5) Order 2013 confirms the Scottish Parliament's power to legislate for a single-question referendum on independence, held by 31 December 2014. The Edinburgh Agreement (between the Scottish and UK Governments) confirmed that it is for the Scottish Government to propose - and the Scottish Parliament to determine - what the franchise for a referendum on Scottish independence should be. The Bill provides for the franchise for the referendum to be based on that for Scottish Parliament and local government elections, as the franchise for these elections most closely reflects residency in Scotland. This approach follows the precedent of the 1997 referendum on the establishment and tax-varying powers of a Scottish Parliament held under the Referendums (Scotland and Wales) Act 1997. So are you saying it can't be tested in the courts? I'm not saying it can or indeed should be but I thought in a democracy it should be feasible. Acts can be repealed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Peter McKay in his column in today's Daily Mail says that as an exiled Scot he could become a citizen of the new Scotland if the nationalists prevail but he won't be allowed to vote in the independence referendum. Why not?, he asks. Is it because most exiles would vote to remain in the union? He points out there doesn't appear to be any research saying that this is the case. He goes on to ask is it because exiles are not impressed by SNP leader Alex Salmond and his party? He doesn't think that is the case. He also goes on to say that denying the vote to born-and-bred Scots living elsewhere doesn't seem very democratic. He concludes that he wonders if anyone has thought of testing the legal validity of this rule in the courts. Food for thought. You can be sure Salmond does think exiles would vote 'no' or of course he would give them the vote. Politicians of every sort would murder their granny to gain an inch. Why would anyone who is not registered to vote in Scotland think they should get a vote? Should we also let anyone on the waiting list for a UK passport vote in the euro elections in may? You know, just in case they get a passport next year. Don't see the daily mail being up for that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Why would anyone who is not registered to vote in Scotland think they should get a vote? Should we also let anyone on the waiting list for a UK passport vote in the euro elections in may? You know, just in case they get a passport next year. Don't see the daily mail being up for that... Agreed. The only people who should have any right to vote are those who have invested in Scotland by working here. I also can't understand why someone who freely chooses to live and work in another country would possibly expect to be allowed to vote on issues which directly affect us. It's also irrelevant what your nationality is. If you choose to be part of Scotland then you have the right to vote. Otherwise - sorry but no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Why would anyone who is not registered to vote in Scotland think they should get a vote? Should we also let anyone on the waiting list for a UK passport vote in the euro elections in may? You know, just in case they get a passport next year. Don't see the daily mail being up for that... Why don't you direct questions to Peter McKay? His email address is in the paper. I know a lot of exiled Scots who would like a say and I stand by my statement that Salmond would let them if he thought it would help him. I don't want a vote because I don't vote. Trying to cloud the issue by bringing up non UK citizens is irrelevant as is the Daily Mail's attitude to anything. I read McKay and Littlejohn because they amuse me. Just as a lot of fatuous posts from the Virtual West Bank do too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Duke Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Is this the ordinary workers you mean David Cameron- Nursing and care home tycoon Dolar Popat has given the Conservatives £209,000. The Ugandan-born dad-of-three has amassed an estimated £42million fortune as founder and chief of TLC Group, which provides services for the elderly. Mr Cameron made the businessman a peer shortly after entering No10 in May 2010, and Lord Popat’s donations include a £25,000 gift registered a week after the Tories’ health reforms were unveiled last July . In 2005 Cameron received £1,500 from Care home property company Chiltern Care Holdings - electoral commission Andrew Lansley: Architect of the Health and Social Care bill - John Nash, the chairman of Care UK, gave £21,000 to fund Andrew Lansley’s personal office in November 2009. In a recent interview, a senior director of the firm said that 96 per cent of Care UK’s business, which amounted to more than £400 million last year, came from the NHS. - Hedge fund boss John Nash is one of the major Conservative donors with close ties to the healthcare industry. Nick de Bois: MP for Enfield North - De Bois is the majority shareholder in Rapier Design Group, an events management company heavily involved with the private medical and pharmaceutical industries, and whose clients include leading names such as AstraZeneca. The company was established by the Tory MP in 1998. Last year it had a turnover of £13m. Last April, Rapier Design purchased Hampton Medical Conferences to “strengthen the company’s position in the medical sector”. It is involved in running conferences and other events for private-sector clients, and for NHS hospitals. A number of the company’s clients are “partners” of the National Association of Primary Care (NAPC), a lobby group supporting the health secretary’s plans. Rapier Design Group’s biggest clients stand to profit when the NHS is opened up to wider private-sector involvement. The GP commissioning consortium for south-west Kent, covering 49 GP practices and known as Salveo, has already signed a contract with the pharmaceuticals giant AstraZeneca aimed at improving diagnosis of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease There are 63 Conservative 4 Liberals and 10 Labour MPs with financial links to private health companies . Ordinary workers have hundreds of £ billions invested in the ownership of private business in the UK. They have far more influence over big business than a company with a £13 million turnover. If ordinary workers don't like the way that private business is run then they should do something about where their money is invested... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Bundy Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Ordinary workers have hundreds of £ billions invested in the ownership of private business in the UK. They have far more influence over big business than a company with a £13 million turnover. If ordinary workers don't like the way that private business is run then they should do something about where their money is invested... What about This Lot ? Now please go and have a Sandwich with, Dickson, And his friend's, In The Conservative & Unionist Party, His Brother's in The Masonic Order, And last but not Least, The Orange Order, And the new Football Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groucho Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Ordinary workers have hundreds of £ billions invested in the ownership of private business in the UK. They have far more influence over big business than a company with a £13 million turnover. If ordinary workers don't like the way that private business is run then they should do something about where their money is invested... Yes they do but ordinary workers didn't get a vote on NHS reforms.Can't you at least accept there is a conflict of interest here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Peter McKay in his column in today's Daily Mail says that as an exiled Scot he could become a citizen of the new Scotland if the nationalists prevail but he won't be allowed to vote in the independence referendum. Why not?, he asks. Is it because most exiles would vote to remain in the union? He points out there doesn't appear to be any research saying that this is the case. He goes on to ask is it because exiles are not impressed by SNP leader Alex Salmond and his party? He doesn't think that is the case. He also goes on to say that denying the vote to born-and-bred Scots living elsewhere doesn't seem very democratic. He concludes that he wonders if anyone has thought of testing the legal validity of this rule in the courts. Food for thought. You can be sure Salmond does think exiles would vote 'no' or of course he would give them the vote. Politicians of every sort would murder their granny to gain an inch. Judging by the size of Salmonds girth I think he's eaten his granny........then again though it might just be all those fancy dinners he gets on his expenses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Agreed. The only people who should have any right to vote are those who have invested in Scotland by working here. I also can't understand why someone who freely chooses to live and work in another country would possibly expect to be allowed to vote on issues which directly affect us. It's also irrelevant what your nationality is. If you choose to be part of Scotland then you have the right to vote. Otherwise - sorry but no. Hmm, what about those Scots who work abroad but pay taxes in the UK? I take it the new Scottish Government will renounce all claim over their income and earnings too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Bundy Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Judging by the size of Salmonds girth I think he's eaten his granny........then again though it might just be all those fancy dinners he gets on his expenses Your Hypocrisy is astounding Fat Arse ? Pot calling Kettle ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Hmm, what about those Scots who work abroad but pay taxes in the UK? I take it the new Scottish Government will renounce all claim over their income and earnings too? Sorry but they lose out too. They choose to live outside Scotland so why should their opinion matter? This really is a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Why don't you direct questions to Peter McKay? His email address is in the paper. I know a lot of exiled Scots who would like a say and I stand by my statement that Salmond would let them if he thought it would help him. I don't want a vote because I don't vote. Trying to cloud the issue by bringing up non UK citizens is irrelevant as is the Daily Mail's attitude to anything. I read McKay and Littlejohn because they amuse me. Just as a lot of fatuous posts from the Virtual West Bank do too. There was a young Scots lawyer on Breakfast last week arguing that it should be the same as General Elections and threatening legal action to get it that way. The rule there apparently is that you can keep your vote for up to 15 years. He was doing well until he was asked if he was registered to vote at his London address. Having failed that, he was asked where he was actually registered. Either Dumfries or Edinburgh was his reply. At that point I lost all interest in his argument....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Your Hypocrisy is astounding Fat Arse ? Pot calling Kettle ? My investment in my girth is all my own. No leaching off the taxpayer here..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Sorry but they lose out too. They choose to live outside Scotland so why should their opinion matter? This really is a no brainer. Cool, result. I'm looking forward to my tax free earnings after Independence then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Bundy Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 My investment in my girth is all my own. No leaching off the taxpayer here..... You Auld Pie muncher Stuart ? Much are You worth, When Yir Died ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Why don't you direct questions to Peter McKay? His email address is in the paper. I know a lot of exiled Scots who would like a say and I stand by my statement that Salmond would let them if he thought it would help him. I don't want a vote because I don't vote. Trying to cloud the issue by bringing up non UK citizens is irrelevant as is the Daily Mail's attitude to anything. I read McKay and Littlejohn because they amuse me. Just as a lot of fatuous posts from the Virtual West Bank do too. Thanks for clearing that up Rick. Quality irony that most on here can only aspire to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 I see that misreporting Scotland still haven't picked up on the FT story. Do you think they would've been so slow if the story was "vote yes and be 11% worse off". Mibees it's just coincidence; I'm sure the story will be sitting in the pending file, next to the UWS report on. BBC being biased against yes campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Agreed. The only people who should have any right to vote are those who have invested in Scotland by working here. I also can't understand why someone who freely chooses to live and work in another country would possibly expect to be allowed to vote on issues which directly affect us. It's also irrelevant what your nationality is. If you choose to be part of Scotland then you have the right to vote. Otherwise - sorry but no. Well, that's bollocks, as I work in Scotland but don't have that vote.But if I ever do decide to retire, I'll sell one of my small London places and can buy a big castle in the Glens. Then let the government pay for my care, cos wee Eck will let me still be a heavily subsidised Scot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Bundy Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Well, that's bollocks, as I work in Scotland but don't have that vote. But if I ever do decide to retire, I'll sell one of my small London places and can buy a big castle in the Glens. Then let the government pay for my care, cos wee Eck will let me still be a heavily subsidised Scot. Are You such a Failure, That You have To travel To Scotland To Earn Your £££ , Is That Cause London, Disnay need You ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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