Desperately Seeking Susans Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 The only way to stop the bloodshed is for Israel to abide with International Law by ending the illegal blockade of Gaza and pulling out of the West Bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 I would have thought the daft cnuts firing missiles were the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 There is a fundamental (aherm) absurdity in the Israeli position. They are the occupying force in Gaza, and as such have a duty to protect the citizens of that region, yet they have declared war upon them. This is contrary to reason, let alone international law. They claim that they have a right to defend themselves. Indeed they do, but not from a 'state' that they occupy. In terms of rocket strikes from Gaza, these have typically increased in response to Israeli acts of aggression. Israel have provided no proof that Hamas (for all they are also a shower of shite in many respects) deliberately store their weapons in civilian areas and buildings such as schools and hospitals. Such claims have been debunked, and, in any event, even if true, DO NOT excuse the deliberate targetting of areas with high concentrations of innocent women and children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) The only way to stop the bloodshed is for Israel to abide with International Law by ending the illegal blockade of Gaza and pulling out of the West Bank.Don't know enough about what is being blocked as food and medicine was getting through along with military weapons in mass by the look of things. Maybe the UN could do more. Its terrible to see innocent people caught up in this. However lets not forget missiles were fired first from Gaza. Kidnappings were also carried out through the tunnels again first from Gaza. What do the militants think is going to happen when they carry out such operations first. Israel will sit back and let it happen _ Of course not. This will lead to a full occupation for a wee while to rid Gaza of its weapons that's my guess. Edited July 29, 2014 by Isle Of Bute Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desperately Seeking Susans Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 I would have thought the daft cnuts firing missiles were the problem? Ask yourself, why are the firing rockets in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Don't know enough about what is being blocked as food and medicine was getting through along with military weapons in mass by the look of things. Maybe the UN could do more. Its terrible to see innocent people caught up in this. However lets not forget missiles were fired first from Gaza. Kidnappings were also carried out through the tunnels again first from Gaza. What do the militants think is going to happen when they carry out such operations first. Israel will sit back and let it happen _ Of course not. This will lead to a full occupation for a wee while to rid Gaza of its weapons that's my guess. According to whom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 I would have thought the daft cnuts firing missiles were the problem?If, by "daft cuts", you mean the Israeli army then I'd agree with you, but not if you are referring to the Palestinians. I believe they are just trying to secure some of the freedoms we take for granted.Naw. The oppressive, occupying army is the problem. Unless you consider that Palestinians wanting the Freedom that Scotland could just vote for (if it had a mind to) was a problem...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Ask yourself, why are the firing rockets in the first place? There have been other similar threads which, obviously, you have a firm stance on. I'm not interested why, I'm only thinking of the poor people who are at the wrong end of these missiles. Stupidity on both sides, that's about it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Ask yourself, why are the firing rockets in the first place? BOTH sides are equally to blame. BOTH sides refuse to recognise the others right to exist. When two people are in the street firing guns at each other and innocent passers-by are being shot you have to be pretty stupid to stand around hand wringing worrying about who started it. You arrest and punish them both. Taking sides in the Gaza situation is moronic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 If, by "daft cuts", you mean the Israeli army then I'd agree with you, but not if you are referring to the Palestinians. I believe they are just trying to secure some of the freedoms we take for granted. Naw. The oppressive, occupying army is the problem. Unless you consider that Palestinians wanting the Freedom that Scotland could just vote for (if it had a mind to) was a problem...? So, by firing missiles this will help, exactly how? As I said above, this thread will become the soap box for a few who have firm views. Nothing wrong with that, just seems innocents get ignored. Dragons Den time for me, I'm out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 BOTH sides are equally to blame. BOTH sides refuse to recognise the others right to exist. When two people are in the street firing guns at each other and innocent passers-by are being shot you have to be pretty stupid to stand around hand wringing worrying about who started it. You arrest and punish them both. Taking sides in the Gaza situation is moronic. What do you mean by 'sides'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 If, by "daft cuts", you mean the Israeli army then I'd agree with you, but not if you are referring to the Palestinians. I believe they are just trying to secure some of the freedoms we take for granted. Naw. The oppressive, occupying army is the problem. Unless you consider that Palestinians wanting the Freedom that Scotland could just vote for (if it had a mind to) was a problem...? Spoken like a true middle class partially educated handwringing tree hugger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Kidnappings were also carried out through the tunnels again first from Gaza.What do the militants think is going to happen when they carry out such operations first.For every Israeli kidnapped, the Israelis have already detained/imprisoned a hundred.Every time there is a "prisoner" swap, hundreds of Palestians are handed over for few Israelis. In that way, Israel underlines how much more important each of their citizens is, compared to the trash in Gaza... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 What do you mean by 'sides'? Palestinians and Israelis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desperately Seeking Susans Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 There is so much focus on Hamas in the media and statements from Israeli supporting states like the EU, UK and the USA. Why? Because Israel actually needs Hamas!! These rockets are ineffectual. They carry no warheads and because of this Israel tolerates them supporting their claim that THEY are the victims thus providing a smokescreen for their repression of the Palestinians in the West Bank. There are no rockets being fired from the West Bank and yet 9 Palestinians were shot and killed by the IDF simply for demonstrating against Israel's actions in Gaza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desperately Seeking Susans Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 There have been other similar threads which, obviously, you have a firm stance on. I'm not interested why, I'm only thinking of the poor people who are at the wrong end of these missiles. Stupidity on both sides, that's about it for me. I think that's your and many other people's problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Spoken like a true middle class partially educated handwringing tree hugger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desperately Seeking Susans Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 BOTH sides are equally to blame. BOTH sides refuse to recognise the others right to exist. When two people are in the street firing guns at each other and innocent passers-by are being shot you have to be pretty stupid to stand around hand wringing worrying about who started it. You arrest and punish them both. Taking sides in the Gaza situation is moronic. Sir, I'm surprised to see you enter this debate again when the last time your commented you made a complete arse of yourself. Anyway, your comments above are are in the same vein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 For every Israeli kidnapped, the Israelis have already detained/imprisoned a hundred. Every time there is a "prisoner" swap, hundreds of Palestians are handed over for few Israelis. In that way, Israel underlines how much more important each of their citizens is, compared to the trash in Gaza... For every Israeli kidnapped, the Israelis have already detained/imprisoned a hundred. Every time there is a "prisoner" swap, hundreds of Palestians are handed over for few Israelis. In that way, Israel underlines how much more important each of their citizens is, compared to the trash in Gaza... Oaksoft summed it up quite well with this..... BOTH sides are equally to blame. BOTH sides refuse to recognise the others right to exist. When two people are in the street firing guns at each other and innocent passers-by are being shot you have to be pretty stupid to stand around hand wringing worrying about who started it. You arrest and punish them both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 I used to be on the fence regarding Israel & Palestine. Then Israel blew up the fence...and the school next to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Oaksoft summed it up quite well with this.....BOTH sides are equally to blame.BOTH sides refuse to recognise the others right to exist.When two people are in the street firing guns at each other and innocent passers-by are being shot you have to be pretty stupid to stand around hand wringing worrying about who started it. You arrest and punish them both.I'm amazed, IoBS!You want freedom for Scotland living cheek by jowl beside a big non-aggressive neighbour, but you'd deny that same freedom to a wee foreign land. These are not equal "sides". One is rich, powerful and imperialist, supported by the US and the other is impoverished, weak and under occupation. If the two people in the street were armed with the same guns, that trite analogy may have been more useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desperately Seeking Susans Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) Oaksoft summed it up quite well with this..... BOTH sides are equally to blame. BOTH sides refuse to recognise the others right to exist. When two people are in the street firing guns at each other and innocent passers-by are being shot you have to be pretty stupid to stand around hand wringing worrying about who started it. You arrest and punish them both. If both sides are equally to blame then why don't each side agree to each other's demands? Hamas stops firing rockets and Israel stops it's blockade. Agreed? This is what Hamas has already said. It won't happen because Israel needs a bogey man to hide its actions in the West Bank. Edited July 29, 2014 by Desperately Seeking Susans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 According to whom?Drew I was right about something - I don't know enough. Found this Eyal Yifrah, Gilad Shaar, and Naftali Frenkel disappeared while in the West Bank, where they were studying at a yeshiva. Israel conducted a massive manhunt in the Palestinian territory, alleging they were abducted by members of Hamas. (Israeli officials appear to have disagreed from the start as to whether the killers were acting on behalf of Hamas or were a lone cell acting on their own.) The boys were found dead on June 30th, apparently executed. Subsequent reporting suggests that Israel already knew they were dead when the search began, and used the manhunt as a cover for arresting a large number of Hamas operatives as a response to the killings. Israel responded to the deaths with a limited bombing campaign in Gaza against Hamas targets there, beginning the night of the boys were found. Palestinian militant groups (though, notably, not Hamas) in Gaza fired rockets into Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 I'm amazed, IoBS! You want freedom for Scotland living cheek by jowl beside a big non-aggressive neighbour, but you'd deny that same freedom to a wee foreign land. These are not equal "sides". One is rich, powerful and imperialist, supported by the US and the other is impoverished, weak and under occupation. If the two people in the street were armed with the same guns, that trite analogy may have been more useful. There is a huge difference and you are just being silly here Bluto We are getting a vote to put to the people in a proper democratic way. Vote YES we get independence. Vote NO we stay within the United Kingdom. How you can compare like for like is strange coming from an Oxford educated man ! ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 There is a huge difference and you are just being silly here BlutoWe are getting a vote to put to the people in a proper democratic way. Vote YES we get independence. Vote NO we stay within the United Kingdom. How you can compare like for like is strange coming from an Oxford educated man ! !Like Wallace and Bruce who paved the way for you to be relaxed about that vote, the people of Gaza are engaged in a struggle against an oppressor which denies them things you take for granted.Like Wallace and Bruce, Hamas fight with what meagre means they possess, while the rest of the world looks on and does nothing. Plus ça change... "...for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under english Israeli rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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