stlucifer Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 I've got SD on ignore but to answer the quote in simplistic terms so he isn't confused. It would most likely affect far more than just the thorn Heath so there would be no way Thatcher could "out" one without causing an avalanche and quite possibly bring down her own government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Allegedly, so was Joseph. I only heard those allegations naming him recently. Didn't think it was his style somehow. I've got a close friend over here who is a victim of Kincora and when I see the mess it has made of his life I could happily pull the lever on the trap door on these bastards involved irrespective of who or what they are. I don't know how much about Kincora you see on the news in Scotland but my pal has been on TV over here quite a bit recently. He's a smashing guy but has attempted suicide a couple of times and a few years back he started self-harming. Now that the Kincora thing is being aired again he seems to be relatively at peace. He wants Kincora to be included in the UK enquiry and was on telly a couple of weeks ago about it. Locally a lot of people don't seem to want that which makes me wonder why. Incidentally, I doubt if Mountbatten was involved over here. I don't think it could have been kept quiet or surreptitious over here with the security situation over here at that time. I'm not saying Mountbatten wasn't that kind of guy. I have no idea. Incidentally, my pal has been in Paisley. He loves The Bull and we spent a lot of time in the Bishopton Inn. I even got him to pay homeage at what was left of Love Street a few years ago. A great bloke whose life has been wrecked by paedophiles. I still worry about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabuddies Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 I think he is taking the "Big Maggie Knew" stuff from a Daily Mail article ... and then, of course, just blaming the SNP. Allegedly, so was Joseph. To kill two birds with one stone (so to speak) there is nothing that a senior political figure does, particularly those holding high office, that is not known to the security services. Also when a Prime Minister takes office they are briefed by the security services about potential banana skins and scandals which may be both colleagues and the previous administration. So I think it is highly likely that Thatcher was aware of any any accusations about Heath and the likelyhood of scandal and damage to party or country. Remember, the politicos have the final say in all these matters, not the security services. Keith Joseph was alleged to "interfered" with an invesigation into abuse at a care home in the south of England while he had the ear of Thatcher, as he was her Svengali after all. It can't be denied that he was highly intelligent and a genius thinker, despite my not agreeing with his thoughts or politics, and if his ally Powell hadn't "blackened" his reputation with his river of blood speech I don't doubt that combined they would have had controlled Tory party thinking throughout the 70's and 80's. However, even his friends thought he was not the full shilling and/or highly eccentric. An old friend who was fast tracked through the old Scottish Office to much higher things always recounted the tale (apocryphal ?) of Joseph, when being asked at an official dinner what he would like for his main course asked for "a piece of fruit cake, the kind you get on the train". He was duly served a piece of cake and ate it ignoring the stifled laughter with a strange grin on his face. However, by coincidence or not, it was not long after Maudling had called him "nutty as a fruitcake". Mind you Maudling was corrupt most of his business and political life but was protected by the party all his life. Ach well, I've always thought that all tories were bent, one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Certainly , the guy in your avatar was a particularly odious individual and a kiddie fiddler. . If you knew this and have evidence to support this then why havent you brought it forward? Why are you allowing his alleged crimes to go? Its people like you that are just as big a problem as the vile indivduals that carry out these things. Put up or shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 It is Sir Keith Joseph , who was a wee bit more to the right than the guy you mention. . Hitler was a national socialist. He was a lefty and a rabid nationalist. Joseph was a libertarian who believed in individual freedom and freedom from the state. How awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted August 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 If you knew this and have evidence to support this then why havent you brought it forward? Why are you allowing his alleged crimes to go? Its people like you that are just as big a problem as the vile indivduals that carry out these things. Put up or shut up. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697947/Chilling-day-Special-Branch-swooped-seize-ANOTHER-dossier-VIP-abusers-16-MPs-names-mentioned-1984-report-paedophile-lobby-s-influence-Westminster.html Chilling day Special Branch swooped to seize ANOTHER dossier on VIP abusers: 16 MPs' names mentioned in 1984 report on paedophile lobby's influence in Westminster Police raided newspaper offices of Don Hale, editor of Bury Messenger He'd recently been given sensitive files by Labour politician Barbara Castle Documents included typewritten minutes of meetings that had been held at Westminster in support of paedophile agenda Included details of a host of Establishment figures who had apparently pledged support to their cause Also mentioned multiple times was Tory minister Sir Rhodes Boyson, a well-known enthusiast for corporal punishment, and Education Secretary Sir Keith Joseph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697947/Chilling-day-Special-Branch-swooped-seize-ANOTHER-dossier-VIP-abusers-16-MPs-names-mentioned-1984-report-paedophile-lobby-s-influence-Westminster.html And? This will result in what exactly? Have you heard of PiE and their aims during that period? Dropping the age of consent for homosexuality so that you could legally get at rent boys from a younger age etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted August 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 And? This will result in what exactly? Have you heard of PiE and their aims during that period? Dropping the age of consent for homosexuality so that you could legally get at rent boys from a younger age etc etc. Huff, puff & bluster - you said put up or shut up regarding the man in your avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697947/Chilling-day-Special-Branch-swooped-seize-ANOTHER-dossier-VIP-abusers-16-MPs-names-mentioned-1984-report-paedophile-lobby-s-influence-Westminster.html Indeed . . I was actually , told about K.J*seph and Cyril Sm*th in the mid-nineties by a friend who worked for the Met' . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) . Edited August 5, 2015 by salmonbuddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Huff, puff & bluster - you said put up or shut up regarding the man in your avatar. So from that you've deduced that he's clearly a paedophile? Mmmkay... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Indeed . . I was actually , told about K.J*seph and Cyril Sm*th in the mid-nineties by a friend who worked for the Met' . . What were you told? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted August 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 So from that you've deduced that he's clearly a paedophile? Mmmkay... No, I'm saying that there is evidence to answer your original demand that there "is evidence to support the accusation" and that it's not just something that saintnextlifetime made up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 What were you told? Just like we now know about Saville , in certain circles , it was well known what Smith and Joseph (and others) got up to regarding crimes against kids . . Curiously , the last time I mentioned Joseph's horrendous past to you , you f**ked off out of the forum for months . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) I Just like we now know about Saville , in certain circles , it was well known what Smith and Joseph (and others) got up to regarding crimes against kids . . Curiously , the last time I mentioned Joseph's horrendous past to you , you f**ked off out of the forum for months . . Well known by whom? In the case of Saville most people who knew him though he was a bit odd, a bit a letchy, some even thought he was inappropriate but very few claimed to know about the extent of his crimes. You'd hope that those who did would have reported it to the police and done their bit to save kids yet the only person to challenge Saville in public while he was alive was Louis Theroux. Surely if you knew what you are claiming you knew on here you would have acted upon it. Surely you'd have reported it to the police, gone to the papers or done something to ensure no more kids were harmed. Surely any sane, decent person would... Which bring me to this story http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/6469719/Kenny-MacAskill-under-fire-over-Operation-Algebra-paedophile-report.html about the most incompetent Justice Minister Scotland has ever had. It seems the SNP certainly knew or at least that it should have done.... Edited August 6, 2015 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Ffs, does it never end.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 I Well known by whom? In the case of Saville most people who knew him though he was a bit odd, a bit a letchy, some even thought he was inappropriate but very few claimed to know about the extent of his crimes. You'd hope that those who did would have reported it to the police and done their bit to save kids yet the only person to challenge Saville in public while he was alive was Louis Theroux. Well THAT is not true for a start. Everyone at the BBC who knew Saville knew what he was up to. It was covered up by senior management because they were shit scared of his reputation. Staff didn't bother reporting it because they were scared for their own careers too. People DID make formal complaints but nobody listened to them. Victims were repeatedly accused of lying. Why? Because it now turns out that many senior policemen were involved in the scandal. Politicians wouldn't help out because so many of THEM were involved too. Even if it had got to court, so many senior JUDGES were involved that nothing would have happened. Catholic victims couldn't even go to their priests because even THEY were involved. None of this is tin foil hat stuff. It's all known fact and it all stemmed from a culture of hero worshipping, selfishness and fear. None of this has been rectified BTW which is why we will continue to hear these types of stories. Is there anything you WON'T oversimplify? Is there anything you actually genuinely know about because we've all yet to hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) Just like we now know about Saville , in certain circles , it was well known what Smith and Joseph (and others) got up to regarding crimes against kids . . Curiously , the last time I mentioned Joseph's horrendous past to you , you f**ked off out of the forum for months . . So you HEARD things but didnt take it to the appropriate authorities? Why not? And you reckon that ANYONE that is investigated for ANY crime is guilty. You clearly understand how the legal system operates champ.. We all heard lots of things about lots of people back in the day. I heard lots of things about Heath too, mainly that he was gay and I didn't really care. I didn't like him because he was a dripping wet left wing c**t. What he did or didn't get up to in his private life was of little interest. http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/08/who-would-have-thought-that-about-ted-heath-well/ Edited August 6, 2015 by Reynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 I didn't like him because he was a dripping wet left wing c**t. I agree. If you're comparing him to the modern "Labour" party anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Ffs, does it never end....Indeed, the rip roaring cuntiness would appear to be endless.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 So you HEARD things but didnt take it to the appropriate authorities? Why not? And you reckon that ANYONE that is investigated for ANY crime is guilty. You clearly understand how the legal system operates champ.. We all heard lots of things about lots of people back in the day. I heard lots of things about Heath too, mainly that he was gay and I didn't really care. I didn't like him because he was a dripping wet left wing c**t. What he did or didn't get up to in his private life was of little interest. http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/08/who-would-have-thought-that-about-ted-heath-well/ I would refer you to what oakstur says below , pretty much sums up a conspiracy of silence. . Well THAT is not true for a start. Everyone at the BBC who knew Saville knew what he was up to. It was covered up by senior management because they were shit scared of his reputation. Staff didn't bother reporting it because they were scared for their own careers too. People DID make formal complaints but nobody listened to them. Victims were repeatedly accused of lying. Why? Because it now turns out that many senior policemen were involved in the scandal. Politicians wouldn't help out because so many of THEM were involved too. Even if it had got to court, so many senior JUDGES were involved that nothing would have happened. Catholic victims couldn't even go to their priests because even THEY were involved. None of this is tin foil hat stuff. It's all known fact and it all stemmed from a culture of hero worshipping, selfishness and fear. None of this has been rectified BTW which is why we will continue to hear these types of stories. Is there anything you WON'T oversimplify? Is there anything you actually genuinely know about because we've all yet to hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabuddies Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Everyone in Britain who had seen or heard of Saville knew what he was up to. Fixed it for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 From the Torygraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11784844/The-Edward-Heath-witch-hunt-is-the-stuff-of-Hitlers-dreams.html Written by a D Hodges, however going by the hysterical headline I think the sub editor might've been a S Dickson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Well THAT is not true for a start. Everyone at the BBC who knew Saville knew what he was up to. It was covered up by senior management because they were shit scared of his reputation. Staff didn't bother reporting it because they were scared for their own careers too. People DID make formal complaints but nobody listened to them. Victims were repeatedly accused of lying. Why? Because it now turns out that many senior policemen were involved in the scandal. Politicians wouldn't help out because so many of THEM were involved too. Even if it had got to court, so many senior JUDGES were involved that nothing would have happened. Catholic victims couldn't even go to their priests because even THEY were involved. None of this is tin foil hat stuff. It's all known fact and it all stemmed from a culture of hero worshipping, selfishness and fear. None of this has been rectified BTW which is why we will continue to hear these types of stories. Is there anything you WON'T oversimplify? Is there anything you actually genuinely know about because we've all yet to hear it. Everyone at the BBC who knew him.... Really? That's quite a broad brush there Oaksoft and quite a potentially litigious comment too. I do hope you've got evidence to back that up. Many of the celebrities that did know him say they had no idea. One of those - Esther Rantzen - formed Childline. She was the first TV presenter to bring the subject of Child Abuse to our TV screens. She worked with Saville on many TV shows yet claimed she had no idea. I met Saville once. I say met but actually he was starting a 10k in Glasgow that I took part in. The extent of my conversation with him was him wishing me luck and me saying thanks. I had no idea he was a paedophile - he just looked like a manky old tramp to me. They only thing I saw him touch up was an air horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 From the Torygraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11784844/The-Edward-Heath-witch-hunt-is-the-stuff-of-Hitlers-dreams.html Written by a D Hodges, however going by the hysterical headline I think the sub editor might've been a S Dickson? They print a bit like this "a lifetime of public service – completely erased" as if , his public service somehow justifies or admonishes him . I reckon Saville used his "charity work " to achieve the same effect . .would give ye the f**king boak . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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