So Farewell Then Humza Yousaf

[antrin]

5 hours ago, W6er said:

 

Absolutely. Nowadays people tend to pick a 'side' and then ultimately resort to calling one another 'libtards' or 'fascists', or whatever. I have been accused of both at one time or another. That's another reason why I cannot be bothered 'debating', most people are never going to change their opinion anyway, so it just becomes a matter of pride and not wanting to 'lose' an argument.

I didn’t pick a side and assume I’m his object of concern.  I presented facts.

He disputed them and offered his evidence, which I showed actually backed me up.  I used his erroneous facts.

His prejudice was only about 20,000 or so years out, IIRC. (Including an intervening Ice Age).

[ALBIONSAINT]

1 hour ago, antrin said:

You need to give yourself a wee wake-up, as YOU went very quiet (after making arsey comments about a tv presenter) based on your erroneous belief that being able to differentiate and identify skulls was a Nazi practice. - when it is an accepted part of science.  I stated facts - you shut up.

You then tried to argue the point based on your mistaken lack of knowledge of the facts.  You thought that the Cheddar Man remains were of the latest influx of “humans” to the Uk, when he was from before the last ice age.

Facts, dear boy, just facts.  Careful now….

(I haven”t looked at the cartoon you offer in support of your latest effort.  I might tomorrow.  I’m hoping it's a thousand times better than your previous, half-arsed, shooting-yourself-in-the-foot efforts).

Don’t know why you have quoted me above, it’s not always about you, although if the cap fits. Although you do rather strengthen my point about undermining the position of the speaker  rather than the facts. 

[W6er]

1 hour ago, antrin said:

I didn’t pick a side and assume I’m his object of concern.  I presented facts.

He disputed them and offered his evidence, which I showed actually backed me up.  I used his erroneous facts.

His prejudice was only about 20,000 or so years out, IIRC. (Including an intervening Ice Age).

I wasn't referring to anybody specifically, just that political debate seems to have deteriorated and usually results in name calling. Maybe it's the result of social media and people who previously would have never even considered interacting can now abuse one another from the safety of their homes. 

Just searched 'libtard' on Twitter to illustrate my point:

 

Those who consider themselves 'leftists' are just as abusive, btw. 

[antrin]

8 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Don’t know why you have quoted me above, it’s not always about you, although if the cap fits. Although you do rather strengthen my point about undermining the position of the speaker  rather than the facts. 

Not at all.

I reacted to you returning to what appears to be the same lost cause that you’d raised with me..

However, I may be reacting to something totally different and, if that’s the case, I’ll apologise.

meantime, I’ll not be able to look at your cartoon till later today.  Let tension build.  

 

[ALBIONSAINT]

11 hours ago, antrin said:

Not at all.

I reacted to you returning to what appears to be the same lost cause that you’d raised with me..

However, I may be reacting to something totally different and, if that’s the case, I’ll apologise.

meantime, I’ll not be able to look at your cartoon till later today.  Let tension build.  

 

Thanks for the apology 👍🏻

[ALBIONSAINT]

 

[antrin]

On 10/10/2023 at 1:29 PM, ALBIONSAINT said:

So a BBC producer has admitted that creating a fantasy history where black people have been in the Britain for two thousand years is okay because that’s how you influence people at present! I feel sorry for anyone who is nieve enough to believe this nonsense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK.

So, I looked at the above kids film then “discussion based around it”.

You really need to seriously consider what you fall for, Albionsaint.
Especially when you come out with comments such as…

On 10/10/2023 at 5:53 PM, ALBIONSAINT said:

Even when that point of view is not based on reality? 

The not-very-bright loon in the red jacket intimated  that the film claimed to say that it was “basically trying to present Britain being massively populated since about 2000 by black people”.

It never did that.

1. Any kid watching would have seen and heard that there had been black people in Britain from the start, since LONG before 2000AD.  I explained about that several posts ago.  Of all people watching it, YOU should have understood that.  I had explained it to you.  The Stone Age character in the film is a representation of the Cheddar Gorge People.

2.  At no point does the film nor do its characters claim that Britain had been “massively populated” by black people.  That’s in the neurotic mind of a fragile racist like red-jacket.

3. The other 2 characters in the short film shown are examples of known black figures in our history.  

A. Hadrian’s Wall was guarded by people from all over the Roman Empire.  Including North Africa.

https://www.stokemuseums.org.uk/pmag/african-garrisons-at-hadrians-wall/
 

B. Fighting against Bonaparte?

https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/stories/forgotten-black-soldiers-battle-of-waterloo

4.  Red~jacket, after introducing the film with a litany of bollox (see above), then has the gall to accuse the bbc of historical inaccuracy just because he(a divisive simpleton) just hadn’t understood or bothered to listen.

He then says that a bbc producer said they had to make it up…. Link to a quote, name the bbc producer.  Any evidence?

Somehow I can’t believe anything red-jacket said..

 

5.  He goes on to complain (as an immigrant himself) that “Britain has never been a nation of immigrants”.  Even just thinking of Scotland, we have the “original” Picts, then Angles, Scotti, Britons, Norse, Danes, swedes, Jews, Poles, Italians, English… and not forgetting the Normans/French such as de Brus and Wallace…  after Normans had been so successful as immigrants in England after 1066!

And I believe England Wales have had a few other immigrants, whilst Northern Ireland was planted with immigrants from the mainland.

Britain has ALWAYS been a nation of immigrants.

 

Let me quote you again: “I feel sorry for anyone who is nieve enough to believe this nonsense.”

stet.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by antrin
Clarity and typos

[Slarti]

1 hour ago, antrin said:

OK.

So, I looked at the above kids film then “discussion based around it”.

You really need to seriously consider what you fall for, Albionsaint.
Especially when you come out with comments such as…

The not-very-bright loon in the red jacket intimated  that the film claimed to say that it was “basically trying to present Britain being massively populated since about 2000 by black people”.

It never did that.

1. Any kid watching would have seen and heard that there had been black people in Britain from the start, since LONG before 2000AD.  I explained about that several posts ago.  Of all people watching it, YOU should have understood that.  I had explained it to you.  The Stone Age character in the film is a representation of the Cheddar Gorge People.

2.  At no point does the film nor do its characters claim that Britain had been “massively populated” by black people.  That’s in the neurotic mind of a fragile racist like red-jacket.

3. The other 2 characters in the short film shown are examples of known black figures in our history.  

A. Hadrian’s Wall was guarded by people from all over the Roman Empire.  Including North Africa.

https://www.stokemuseums.org.uk/pmag/african-garrisons-at-hadrians-wall/
 

B. Fighting against Bonaparte?

https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/stories/forgotten-black-soldiers-battle-of-waterloo

4.  Red~jacket, after introducing the film with a litany of bollox (see above), then has the gall to accuse the bbc of historical inaccuracy just because he(a divisive simpleton) just hadn’t understood or bothered to listen.

He then says that a bbc producer said they had to make it up…. Link to a quote, name the bbc producer.  Any evidence?

Somehow I can’t believe anything red-jacket said..

 

5.  He goes on to complain (as an immigrant himself) that “Britain has never been a nation of immigrants”.  Even just thinking of Scotland, we have the “original” Picts, then Angles, Scotti, Britons, Norse, Danes, swedes, Jews, Poles, Italians, English… and not forgetting the Normans/French such as de Brus and Wallace…  after Normans had been so successful as immigrants in England after 1066!

And I believe England Wales have had a few other immigrants, whilst Northern Ireland was planted with immigrants from the mainland.

Britain has ALWAYS been a nation of immigrants.

 

Let me quote you again: “I feel sorry for anyone who is nieve enough to believe this nonsense.”

stet.

 

 

 

 

Let's face it, apart from the region of Africa where homo sapiens first evolved, everywhere is full of immigrants.

[faraway saint]

A SNP MP jumps ship?

Has the SNP boat sailed?

Free for 23.............................what happened to that slogan? 

Maybe the Scottish MP's will concentrate on managing their local regions, not before time. 

 

[Cookie Monster]

A SNP MP jumps ship?
Has the SNP boat sailed?
Free for 23.............................what happened to that slogan? [emoji38]
Maybe the Scottish MP's will concentrate on managing their local regions, not before time. 
 

Is that the one who knew she was getting her jotters a few hours later. [emoji1787]

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, Cookie Monster said:

Is that the one who knew she was getting her jotters a few hours later.

You keep telling yourself that............................sinking ship.................

[ALBIONSAINT]

7 hours ago, antrin said:

OK.

So, I looked at the above kids film then “discussion based around it”.

You really need to seriously consider what you fall for, Albionsaint.
Especially when you come out with comments such as…

The not-very-bright loon in the red jacket intimated  that the film claimed to say that it was “basically trying to present Britain being massively populated since about 2000 by black people”.

It never did that.

1. Any kid watching would have seen and heard that there had been black people in Britain from the start, since LONG before 2000AD.  I explained about that several posts ago.  Of all people watching it, YOU should have understood that.  I had explained it to you.  The Stone Age character in the film is a representation of the Cheddar Gorge People.

2.  At no point does the film nor do its characters claim that Britain had been “massively populated” by black people.  That’s in the neurotic mind of a fragile racist like red-jacket.

3. The other 2 characters in the short film shown are examples of known black figures in our history.  

A. Hadrian’s Wall was guarded by people from all over the Roman Empire.  Including North Africa.

https://www.stokemuseums.org.uk/pmag/african-garrisons-at-hadrians-wall/
 

B. Fighting against Bonaparte?

https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/stories/forgotten-black-soldiers-battle-of-waterloo

4.  Red~jacket, after introducing the film with a litany of bollox (see above), then has the gall to accuse the bbc of historical inaccuracy just because he(a divisive simpleton) just hadn’t understood or bothered to listen.

He then says that a bbc producer said they had to make it up…. Link to a quote, name the bbc producer.  Any evidence?

Somehow I can’t believe anything red-jacket said..

 

5.  He goes on to complain (as an immigrant himself) that “Britain has never been a nation of immigrants”.  Even just thinking of Scotland, we have the “original” Picts, then Angles, Scotti, Britons, Norse, Danes, swedes, Jews, Poles, Italians, English… and not forgetting the Normans/French such as de Brus and Wallace…  after Normans had been so successful as immigrants in England after 1066!

And I believe England Wales have had a few other immigrants, whilst Northern Ireland was planted with immigrants from the mainland.

Britain has ALWAYS been a nation of immigrants.

 

Let me quote you again: “I feel sorry for anyone who is nieve enough to believe this nonsense.”

stet.

 

 

 

 

Let’s cut to the chase, as I can’t be bothered with your belligerence,  simple question, do you believe that Black Africans have lived in Britain in large numbers in the past? 

[W6er]

I had a discussion with a Rangers fan earlier. He's a neighbour of mine, a decent enough man most of the time. We got talking about the Palestine/Israel conflict and he believes that the Green Brigade should be sent to Guantanamo Bay! 🤣 I found it difficult to keep a straight face. However, he stated that they have been inciting terrorism and that's where they all belong. He was then on about flying an Israeli flag in his garden, but I think I talked him out of it! 

He's a very skilled man and I genuinely do not consider him to be stupid, but I really feel he doesn't understand the history of the Palestine conflict and is just trying to be an uber-Rangers fan. He has hung flags out on the 12th in that past, which is his right...anyway, I'm so glad our club doesn't involve itself (much) with politics. 

[ALBIONSAINT]

33 minutes ago, W6er said:

I had a discussion with a Rangers fan earlier. He's a neighbour of mine, a decent enough man most of the time. We got talking about the Palestine/Israel conflict and he believes that the Green Brigade should be sent to Guantanamo Bay! 🤣 I found it difficult to keep a straight face. However, he stated that they have been inciting terrorism and that's where they all belong. He was then on about flying an Israeli flag in his garden, but I think I talked him out of it! 

He's a very skilled man and I genuinely do not consider him to be stupid, but I really feel he doesn't understand the history of the Palestine conflict and is just trying to be an uber-Rangers fan. He has hung flags out on the 12th in that past, which is his right...anyway, I'm so glad our club doesn't involve itself (much) with politics. 

 

[antrin]

1 hour ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Let’s cut to the chase, as I can’t be bothered with your belligerence,  simple question, do you believe that Black Africans have lived in Britain in large numbers in the past? 

It seems once again that you don’t read the evidence I provide for you to make up your own mind.  Sigh…

I gave you the simple, factual answer, already.  I gave you proof that Africans have been living in the UK since the Stone Age.  Proof.  Evidence, backed by confirmation from various official bodies.

The film was not lying.  The punters you offered comments on were lying.  Or just thick.

I don’t feel threatened by immigrants of whatever colour, wherever they came from… so I also don’t care about what you might feel are “large numbers”… the point being made in the film (and endorsed by me) is that there have always been immigrant populations helping to make British culture the lovely thing it is.

In the Stone Age, it’s likely that everyone in Britain before the Ice returned was black.  We don’t know if that number was “large” or “small” for that, but say 100% at the time.

read the links I offered. Make your own mind up if that’s a large number or not.

I’m not being belligerent, just a bit testy because you hate dealing with what I recognise as normal, everyday reality…

why do you believe that “large numbers of black Africans” is problematic?

Edited October 12, 2023 by antrin

[W6er]

25 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

 

I didn't agree with that!  

[faraway saint]

So, the next election seems to be pointing towards a Labour victory.

It'll be close, IMO, as there's not a big difference these days as there used to be.

Will they, Labour, make a difference, if they win.......................I seriously doubt it, all much of a muchness IMO. 

[faraway saint]

Somebody on Questiontime's answer to solve the cash crisis in the UK is to tax the oil companies. 

Yip, the "cash cow" that is targeted at every opportunity when the profits are used against them when the majority of profits come from overseas.

I despair, hammer the industry that provides millions in employee tax revenues, provides millions in direct and indirect company income and reduce their ability to invest to make more revenue for the country. 

Meanwhile government backed "companies" pish zillions away with no real intervention. 

[faraway saint]

15 minutes ago, W6er said:

I didn't agree with that!  

He's a bit up and down but he's just stated, as fact, that young people need 25% deposit to buy a house.

I've done a quick bit of digging and the numbers I've found range between 5% and 20%.

I really dislike people lying, or exaggerating numbers, to prove a point. 

 

[W6er]

3 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

He's a bit up and down but he's just stated, as fact, that young people need 25% deposit to buy a house.

I've done a quick bit of digging and the numbers I've found range between 5% and 20%.

I really dislike people lying, or exaggerating numbers, to prove a point. 

 

I don't care for politics and tend to avoid political discussion. Pretty much all of my family have been actively involved in politics and in pretty much every conceivable party right across the spectrum. I think it's all basically a puppet show. 

[ALBIONSAINT]

37 minutes ago, antrin said:

It seems once again that you don’t read the evidence I provide for you to make up your own mind.  Sigh…

I gave you the simple, factual answer, already.  I gave you proof that Africans have been living in the UK since the Stone Age.  Proof.  Evidence, backed by confirmation from various official bodies.

The film was not lying.  The punters you offered comments on were lying.  Or just thick.

I don’t feel threatened by immigrants of whatever colour, wherever they came from… so I also don’t care about what you might feel are “large numbers”… the point being made in the film (and endorsed by me) is that there have always been immigrant populations helping to make British culture the lovely thing it is.

In the Stone Age, it’s likely that everyone in Britain before the Ice returned was black.  We don’t know if that number was “large” or “small” for that, but say 100% at the time.

read the links I offered. Make your own mind up if that’s a large number or not.

I’m not being belligerent, just a bit testy because you hate dealing with what I recognise as normal, everyday reality…

why do you believe that “large numbers of black Africans” is problematic?

Your doing your best to avoid answering the Question, do you believe that large numbers (statically significant) black Africans ( Not Berbers as you included in your “proof” above) lived in Britain in the past? 
 

[W6er]

21 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Your doing your best to avoid answering the Question, do you believe that large numbers (statically significant) black Africans ( Not Berbers as you included in your “proof” above) lived in Britain in the past? 
 

I cannae be bothered arguing over this, but I would suggest it's very obvious that was not the case, otherwise we'd have a national phenotype similar to say, Brazilians. It would appear obvious to me that white people evolved in an environment where the sun wasn't strong, presumably because we did not need as much melanin to protect ourselves from it and so that we could more easily absorb vitamin d. However, I am not an anthropologist and I appreciate that this sort of discussion is taboo, nowadays. However, what is interesting is that the three meta-ethnicities have variable amounts of neanderthal genes. 

A quick Google search appears to confirm this:

Quote

Neanderthals roamed the lands across Europe and the Middle East. Their sister group, the Denisovans, spread through Asia. And whenever these groups met, it seems, they mated.

The genetic fingerprints of this mixing remain apparent in many populations today. Roughly two percent of the genomes of Europeans and Asians are Neanderthal. Asians also carry additional Denisovan DNA, up to 6 percent in Melanesians. But African populations seemed to have largely been left out of this genetic shakeup.

Source: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/more-neanderthal-dna-than-you-think

 

Anyway, I have had enough political shite for the while. I'm going to avoid Twitter, the news and politics for the next few days and perhaps weeks. The world's really depressing me right now. I keep getting sent horrific videos on WhatsApp, apparently of the Hamas attacks, by a couple of people who believe they can convince me that Israel is justified in flattening Gaza.

  

Edited October 12, 2023 by W6er

[antrin]

31 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Your doing your best to avoid answering the Question, do you believe that large numbers (statically significant) black Africans ( Not Berbers as you included in your “proof” above) lived in Britain in the past? 
 

That’s a lie. - projection, indeed - as YOU are the one refusing to read my answers and refusing to answer my questions.

 

YOU are the one offering a ranting racist’s utterly bafflingly wrong (and easily discounted) interpretation of a chidren’s film as your “evidence”

I pointed out 100% of the “British” population was - at one time - black. You’ve refused to acknowledge I was correct about that.

Berbers are African immigrants. From the start I’ve stated that a person’s colour is an irrelevancy.

I gave you links showing black Britons fought against Napoleon.

I don’t care what you think is a large number - or a “statically significant” one (stet) - so, as I fail to see why it matters, why should you?

FACT : There have been blacks in Britain since before Britain was invented.

As the song said…  I’ve provided the evidence. Deal with it.

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by antrin

[antrin]

3 minutes ago, W6er said:

It would appear obvious to me that white people evolved in an environment where the sun wasn't strong, presumably because we did not need as much melanin to protect ourselves from it and so that we could more easily absorb vitamin d.

  

Current thinking on the subject is that ALL branches of hominid came out of Africa initially - including ours..  And all would initially have been black.  Like the Cheddar Gorge Stone Age population that were discovered. (See above - ad infinitum)

Generations evolving long enough in Northern European latitudes would grow lighter-skinned in order to maximise vitamin D from a weaker sun than it is in Africa.  Nothing special about being white other than that.

Like it or not, we are a’ Jock Tamson’s bairns.  

 

[W6er]

3 minutes ago, antrin said:

Current thinking on the subject is that ALL branches of hominid came out of Africa initially - including ours..  And all would initially have been black.  Like the Cheddar Gorge Stone Age population that were discovered. (See above - ad infinitum)

Generations evolving long enough in Northern European latitudes would grow lighter-skinned in order to maximise vitamin D from a weaker sun than it is in Africa.  Nothing special about being white other than that.

Like it or not, we are a’ Jock Tamson’s bairns.  

 

You mean this one:

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2161867-ancient-dark-skinned-briton-cheddar-man-find-may-not-be-true/