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The 3 Monthly Spend


Kombibuddie
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Guest TPAFKATS
Guessing you haven’t read the proposal. The pitch will do into our ownership of the club. 
your point about what if XY&Z happens. 
We’ll deal with it the same as almost any other club in the world deal with it. Or the same way we’d of dealt with it 10, 20, 50, pretty much any other time in our history. We’d pay out of our budget. This is a very rare situation we’re in right now, it doesn’t happen much in football so using it to our advantage isn’t naive and it’s certainly not alarm bells for ‘what about the future.’ 
What do you think happens when Falkirk, Morton, Dundee, Kilmarnock, ICT, etc have a cost? Do you think they all have multi-millionaire owners that pay out the goodness of their heart? No, they need to run at least at cost or they start to get in trouble. (Which all those clubs have been in the past) often due to short term greed of shareholders (we won’t have shareholders in it for profit, one of the benefits of fan ownership) 
also the club was up for sale for about seven years. Another model doesn’t exist that doesn’t present us with significant risk of going like a Dundee, Livi or Clydebank with dodgy owners and decisions. This is the best hope we have of running the club like a business and our only low risk option when it comes to future costs. I’m sorry but it sounds like you’re the naive one. Unless of course you have another business model that’ll protect us from future big ticket costs that hasn’t been proposed? 
Someone (tsumirren? ) suggested you might be close to or even on the smisa committee.

Given the complete lack of business acumen or knowledge of forward planning, managing for depreciation etc that you have exhibited in the quoted post I genuinely hope are never have any real say in how our club is run.
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3 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I didn’t even read beyond the first sentence. It’ll be the people that cancel its fault. Smisa do everything as a democratic vote. If people throw their toys out the pram as we’ve seen at least two people do today, they’re to blame. Btb was always for the long term good of the club. 

Well we've all seen your true colours. Slagging off disaffected smisa members who are exercising their democratic right. Are you sure you arent heading up member recruitment for Smisa?

the only reason people are leaving is because the see this as wrong and feel betrayed. They were promised in person, in print and in legal documentation that the ring fence and asset lock were for the long term. Thats why they committed to Buy The Buds. They were given categoric guarantees which are worth their weight now in horse shit!

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I didn’t even read beyond the first sentence. It’ll be the people that cancel its fault. Smisa do everything as a democratic vote. If people throw their toys out the pram as we’ve seen at least two people do today, they’re to blame. Btb was always for the long term good of the club. 
Smisa shouldn't even have allowed this to go to a vote. This isn't about an AstroTurf pitch, it's about Smisa making a really poor business decision, which doesn't bod well for the future. That for me is something to be concerned about, in this format Smisa aren't showing enough business nouse to maintain the club and shape the club as we won't.

You can't blame people for stopping paying their money if they feel the clubs ownership is going in the wrong direction. I'm sure a lot of people were sick of feeling the previous board had went stale after years at the helm, and with little movement on the club sale, Buy the Buds was a perfect opportunity to do something about this. This isn't the way I expected or wanted smisa to be going about business.



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Guest TPAFKATS
Really...do you know what a balance sheet is?
So you agree that SMISA is loaning the money directly to the Club?
I'm struggling with the concept of how it's a loan when it'll be paid back from the funds of those giving the loan.
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31 minutes ago, Toots said:

If we want to keep up the level of paying members , Stop using the members as a Cash Cow , its really that simple.

What I read is 'If you want to keep paying member levels steady, stop giving members a choice.' That's all this is, a no means nothing changes. A yes means there's appetite for change. 

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3 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Nope, more people having digs at my responses. Wonder what people would say if I voted yes then cancelled my monthly payment... 

That is entirely your option , i for one would respect your decision.

2 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

What I read is 'If you want to keep paying member levels steady, stop giving members a choice.' That's all this is, a no means nothing changes. A yes means there's appetite for change. 

I checked my post again there and i definitely never wrote anything remotely relating to that .  

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32 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

Someone (tsumirren? ) suggested you might be close to or even on the smisa committee.

Given the complete lack of business acumen or knowledge of forward planning, managing for depreciation etc that you have exhibited in the quoted post I genuinely hope are never have any real say in how our club is run.

I'm not on the SMISA committee or close to anyone that is. 

Please enlighten me to how a well costed borrowing plan is a lack of business acumen? Also I'd love to know how being in favor of saving the club £50k for next seasons budget is poor forward planning. :blink:

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27 minutes ago, Toots said:

That is entirely your option , i for one would respect your decision.

I checked my post again there and i definitely never wrote anything remotely relating to that .  

It's exactly what you're saying though.

St Mirren have proposed dipping into the funds, SMISA have said 'wait and we'll ask members if they think it's a good idea.' You cancel your membership.

I can only assume that when St Mirren asked SMISA, you would of expected SMISA to say 'No we aren't even going to ask our members this one. Funds are ring-fenced and even though regulation exists to take the funds we aren't going to give the members the right to exercise this'

Makes a massive assumption that paying members don't want this. I'd ask, why should SMISA have rejected this to suit you when there will be fans like me that think it's a good idea and want it to be yes? 

Said it before but it's almost as if a vote would be a good idea under the circumstances... 

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Guest TPAFKATS
I'm not on the SMISA committee or close to anyone that is. 
Please enlighten me to how a well costed borrowing plan is a lack of business acumen? Also I'd love to know how being in favor of saving the club £50k for next seasons budget is poor forward planning. :blink:
The club should and need to build in depreciation and renewals into the long term business plan and budget accordingly. Your post that I quoted showed that you hadn't considered any of this and we would just deal with it when it arose.
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29 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I'm not on the SMISA committee or close to anyone that is. 

Yet, you know...or at least claim...that the club have contributed to the women's team when that information has NEVER been made public. Not in my update on the SMISA site, not in the vote text, not in a SMISA update and certainly not in Gordon's recent update as he forgot to mention the women's team in any shape or form in that. There have also been no on site updates regarding matches, next to nothing from the club on twitter and SMISA only really got interested because their logo was on something. So, either you are close to everything or you just made that claim up.

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10 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

 

St Mirren have proposed dipping into the funds, SMISA have said 'wait and we'll ask members if they think it's a good idea.' You cancel your membership.

I can only assume that when St Mirren asked SMISA, you would of expected SMISA to say 'No we aren't even going to ask our members this one. Funds are ring-fenced and even though regulation exists to take the funds we aren't going to give the members the right to exercise this'

Makes a massive assumption that paying members don't want this. I'd ask, why should SMISA have rejected this to suit you when there will be fans like me that think it's a good idea and want it to be yes? 

Said it before but it's almost as if a vote would be a good idea under the circumstances... 

If I wrote to SMISA asking for £15k for a new Fiesta ( it would benefit the community as I have lots of friends), would you expect the SMISA board to put that to a members vote?

After all, the members might want me to get a new car. 

I’ll give you some credit and assume your answer is “NO”.  That is because we all expect those in charge to exhibit a level of governance. It is of course subjective as to the level of governance required. 

That is the point you keep missing. Simply saying “it is a democratic vote” does not get round the public perception of the governance Expected. 

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Can spin my words all you want, it doesn’t change facts. Anyone with half a brain will know voting to use the funds from the ring fence means... using the money from the ring fence. see previous point on valid arguments and slandering the club. 
But we do NOT have a straightforward vote to protect the money ring-fenced to purchase shares in the club.

Show me where I am given that voting option.

Again... It is a totally separate issue.
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26 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:
49 minutes ago, bazil85 said:
I'm not on the SMISA committee or close to anyone that is. 
Please enlighten me to how a well costed borrowing plan is a lack of business acumen? Also I'd love to know how being in favor of saving the club £50k for next seasons budget is poor forward planning. :blink:

The club should and need to build in depreciation and renewals into the long term business plan and budget accordingly. Your post that I quoted showed that you hadn't considered any of this and we would just deal with it when it arose.

I don't think the plan will depreciate by 200-300 members which we're currently over by. The plan was set for 1,000 £12 members with the assumption there would be drop off from this number. I've considered it I assure you. 

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Right there's a lot of the same points coming up that I've answered over the last few days (some multiple times). We have a league to win so let's just leave this eh?

I'm not backing down from my points and a few people on here won't be either. I've been very consistent with my message over the last few days and any of the more recent posts, I'm sure you'll find a more than satisfactory response if you go back over the last 20 pages. 

One thing that I have gotten incorrect was the Donation to the ladies team. From looking back at my posts and the information I was using, it looks like it was SMISA that donated, not the club. I'm big enough and ugly enough to admit I got the wrong information there... Not that St Mirren haven't donated, I just don't know if they have. 

 

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I don't think the plan will depreciate by 200-300 members which we're currently over by. The plan was set for 1,000 £12 members with the assumption there would be drop off from this number. I've considered it I assure you. 
Do you see losing members unnecessarily as acceptable collateral then?
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I'm on nights, just woke up...

How is Groundhog Day today?

Bazil still vehement that if you vote no, you are voting to harm the club?
Bazil refusing to accept a fair bit of opinion that giving The Club ring fenced money is not what they were sold or signed up to & if they vote no, they are half brained?
Poz doesn't really like Pings & Mrs Poz is no nearer that new telly?

The upshot of this discussion is, hopefully SMISA will get the message that a fair number of members will not act like sheep (no slight intended, it's a turn of phrase) and just blindly follow?

If folk start cancelling their memberships because of this proposal, there is only 1 group of people responsible for that and that is the SMISA committee itself.

They put a half brained proposal (imo) to the members hoping a vast majority would swallow their reasoning & vote in favour.
Unfortunately for them, if this thread is anywhere near indicative of members not wanting to be treated like sheep, they could have caused considerable damage to the vehicle born to buy the buds.

They have failed to filter the wheat from the chaff before putting it before the members

If enough members think similarly to Toots and his/her mate and cancel their membership and it jeapordises Buy the Buds. There is only the SMISA committee to blame.

Some disagree, seeing it differently but I think SMISA would be ill advised not to take notice of the numbers on here expressing their views against this proposal.

It turns out to be more than just a Yes or No vote.

It looks like SMISA have loaded a gun and are willing to play Russian Roullette with members money.

The dissenting voices are clearly saying, they are prepared to hold the SMISA committee accountable for this clusterf**k of a proposal.

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30 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:
38 minutes ago, bazil85 said:
I don't think the plan will depreciate by 200-300 members which we're currently over by. The plan was set for 1,000 £12 members with the assumption there would be drop off from this number. I've considered it I assure you. 

Do you see losing members unnecessarily as acceptable collateral then?

I see members dropping out (unless due to financial reasons)  as being their issue, extremely shortsighted and counterproductive to St Mirren football club. Now that’s plenty, league business time 

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