Is Rock Music The New Jazz?

[Bud the Baker]

I’ll start this tread by veering off topic to state that I am currently sporting a goatee beard!

*****************

Anyway back on topic where I’ve just finished reading an article in The Guardian (Online) about Rock Music being the new Jazz - something fetishized by an older audience, but which has ceded it’s place at the centre of the pop-cultural conversation to other forms of music, ones less tied to a sense of history, more forward looking.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2017/mar/31/five-things-i-learned-as-guardian-music-editor-rock-music-writing-michael-hann

Sadly, looking around me at gigs I believe this to be true. 

***************

PS - Fitzy, Scottzy & Stubbzy: Skweeze Me, Pleeze Me, but Giza signing,  

PPS - The standard of grammar/spelling in the article leaves a lot to be desired. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Bud the Baker

[Eric Arthur Blair]

1 minute ago, Bud the Baker said:

PPS - The standard of grammar/spelling in the article leaves a lot to be desired. 

As does the topic title.

[Bud the Baker]

Just now, Eric Arthur Blair said:

As does the topic title.

Is you is or is you ain’t happy now? 

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

What is rock these days ? Foals are a right good band . London Grammer, War On Drugs. Everything is pigeon holed into some sort of hole. 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

11 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

 Everything is pigeon holed into some sort of hole. 

A pigeonhole?

[Bud the Baker]

2 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

What is rock these days ? Foals are a right good band . London Grammer, War On Drugs. Everything is pigeon holed into some sort of hole. 

Yes, yessish & yes. 

My point (& the article’s) is that none of these bands are where "the kids are at" these days.

There are still young Jazzers out there but they’re playing to mainly older audiences.

[Bud the Baker]

2 hours ago, Eric Arthur Blair said:

A pigeonhole?

The most fun a boy and is mum can have together - Rock’n’Roll! 

 

 

[pozbaird]

I have no idea where ‘the kids’ are at with music these days. However, if rock is the new jazz, then I’m taking my own life tomorrow. Rap, and jazz, IMHO, are just utterly, completely, and absolutely contemptable in every way imaginable. I have one ‘rap’ track in my 14,500 iPad song collection, ‘Lose Yourself’ by Eminem. I love it, but it negates my need to ever listen to any ‘rap’ song again. I simply have no jazz music in my collection, and the thought of listening to aimless and self-indulgent tootling, parping, and Buddy Rich drumming with facial expressions like he’s just shat his keks, gives me the dry boak.

IMHO, he added, again, in case any jazz listening wallopers read this.

Edited September 5, 2018 by pozbaird

[windae cleaner]

What is classed as Jazz?

I thought it was Cleo Laine,Buddy Rich and Duke Ellington

Then George Benson,Shalmar and Shitattack whatever they were called were classed as Jazz in the 80s

Not a fan

[Bud the Baker]

37 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

I have no idea where ‘the kids’ are at with music these days. However, if rock is the new jazz, then I’m taking my own life tomorrow. Rap, and jazz, IMHO, are just utterly, completely, and absolutely contemptable in every way imaginable. I have one ‘rap’ track in my 14,500 iPad song collection, ‘Lose Yourself’ by Eminem. I love it, but it negates my need to ever listen to any ‘rap’ song again. I simply have no jazz music in my collection, and the thought of listening to aimless and self-indulgent tootling, parping, and Buddy Rich drumming with facial expressions like he’s just shat his keks, gives me the dry boak.

IMHO, he added, again, in case any jazz listening wallopers read this.

Jazz was the dance music of it’s day (just ask grampozbaird ) before it got intellectualized and as far as facial expressions go plenty rock guitarists could give Buddy a run for is riches.

 

[saintnextlifetime]

At the time this was Modern Jazz and was experimental . I believe Brubeck was astonished at the success this had because it was so different from the normal fair at the time. .

 

 

[saintnextlifetime]

Don Ellis pushed the boudaries too. .

 

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by saintnextlifetime

[Bud the Baker]

6 minutes ago, saintnextlifetime said:

At the time this was Modern Jazz and was experimental . I believe Brubeck was astonished at the success this had because it was so different from the normal fair at the time. .

 

 

Zat no Cool Jazz (an attempt to make more listenable music) - popular for a coupla years back in the day?

Edited September 5, 2018 by Bud the Baker

[saintnextlifetime]

Then , we had the Pat Metheny Group . .

 

 

[saintnextlifetime]

Pat's more recent work  . .

 

 

[Bud the Baker]

29 minutes ago, windae cleaner said:

What is classed as Jazz?

I thought it was Cleo Laine,Buddy Rich and Duke Ellington

Then George Benson,Shalmar and Shitattack whatever they were called were classed as Jazz in the 80s 

Not a fan

Jazz/Jazz Fusion/Funk?

Pat Metheny = Jazz/Jazz Fusion

*********************

Can we agree any music that can be described as fusion is prob’ly unlistenable?

[saintnextlifetime]

Brother Jack McDuff . . Who never liked the Panther that was Pink?

 

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by saintnextlifetime

[saintnextlifetime]

. .more Modern Jazz. .

 

 

[oaksoft]

11 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

Yes, yessish & yes. 

My point (& the article’s) is that none of these bands are where "the kids are at" these days.

There are still young Jazzers out there but they’re playing to mainly older audiences.

Is that a problem?

People of all ages enjoy a wide variety of music. The author of that article is wrong to suggest older people don't seek out new music. We do. We might look into jazz, classical, blues etc. but we still look for new experiences and there is plenty of new music being created in all those genres.

There is too much handwringing over what young people think and want and that is as true in music as it is in media. It's a ridiculous obsession. I would be very surprised if young people were the biggest market for music outside pop and really, who gives a shit about that?

The problem for rock is that nothing new is coming through. It's all been done before. You listen to most new rock music and you instantly think they sound like group x or whatever. If someone creates something new and exciting it will get noticed but so many musicians seem to put aside the art in pursuit of money. The second you do that you are dead in the water.

Attitudes have to change. Musicians need to consider putting albums on youtube as free advertising to build a following which leads to live gigs. That is when they get paid. Bless her wee heart but Taylor Swift has this model down to a tee from a standing start. Anyone wanting a sustainable music career could do a lot worse than finding out how she built her brand from scratch.

Edited September 6, 2018 by oaksoft

[pozbaird]

Talking about new bands who sound like an older band, has anyone heard this new young rock band Greta Van Fleet? There’s a bit of a buzz about them, being the ‘new Led Zeppelin’ and a fresh new band ‘heavily influenced by Led Zeppelin’ etc... help ma’ boab... 

They aren’t merely influenced by Led Zeppelin, they sound like a tribute band, and could be a good one too, if only they were covering Zeppelin songs and not trying their own ‘original’ material, which a couple of tracks aside, is risible weak-as-pish second-rate retread shite.

Anyone with an interest in Led Zeppelin, who hasn’t heard Greta Van Fleet - listen to the opening track on their debut album, and try not to spit your coffee across the room at 100mph while simultaneously pishing your breeks.

[Bud the Baker]

3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Is that a problem?

People of all ages enjoy a wide variety of music. The author of that article is wrong to suggest older people don't seek out new music. We do. We might look into jazz, classical, blues etc. but we still look for new experiences and there is plenty of new music being created in all those genres.

There is too much handwringing over what young people think and want and that is as true in music as it is in media. It's a ridiculous obsession. I would be very surprised if young people were the biggest market for music outside pop and really, who gives a shit about that?

The problem for rock is that nothing new is coming through. It's all been done before. You listen to most new rock music and you instantly think they sound like group x or whatever. If someone creates something new and exciting it will get noticed but so many musicians seem to put aside the art in pursuit of money. The second you do that you are dead in the water.

Attitudes have to change. Musicians need to consider putting albums on youtube as free advertising to build a following which leads to live gigs. That is when they get paid. Bless her wee heart but Taylor Swift has this model down to a tee from a standing start. Anyone wanting a sustainable music career could do a lot worse than finding out how she built her brand from scratch.

I'd say the two highlighted statements are contradictory, Ms. Swift is the epitome of music by committee and sustains her career largely by keeping a high profile on social media - just saying like.

Oh and Ms. Swift don't like anyone hearing her music for free now she's successful. 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Bud the Baker

[oaksoft]

4 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

I'd say the two highlighted statements are contradictory, Ms. Swift is the epitome of music by committee and sustains her career largely by keeping a high profile on social media - just saying like.

Oh and Ms. Swift don't like anyone hearing her music for free now she's successful. 

They look contradictory because they are addressing different things although I have made an arse of explaining myself.

The first is about creating a valuable piece of art and the second is about how you make money.

If an artist is driven by a desire to produce high quality art then this is the priority order it needs to be done in.

Too many musicians are just after the second bit and so produce derivative shit. Swift is a great example of that but her financial success is too great to be ignored and those who have created great pieces of musical art then need to look at her approach to work out how to THEN monetise it.

 

[Bud the Baker]

10 hours ago, pozbaird said:

Talking about new bands who sound like an older band, has anyone heard this new young rock band Greta Van Fleet? There’s a bit of a buzz about them, being the ‘new Led Zeppelin’ and a fresh new band ‘heavily influenced by Led Zeppelin’ etc... help ma’ boab... 

They aren’t merely influenced by Led Zeppelin, they sound like a tribute band, and could be a good one too, if only they were covering Zeppelin songs and not trying their own ‘original’ material, which a couple of tracks aside, is risible weak-as-pish second-rate retread shite.

Anyone with an interest in Led Zeppelin, who hasn’t heard Greta Van Fleet - listen to the opening track on their debut album, and try not to spit your coffee across the room at 100mph while simultaneously pishing your breeks.

On the mark about GVZ - wonder why Zep haven’t sued, I mean they must know lawyers who specialize in that field...…………

[pozbaird]

40 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

On the mark about GVZ - wonder why Zep haven’t sued, I mean they must know lawyers who specialize in that field...…………

Good point, well made. 

[saintnextlifetime]

23 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

Jazz/Jazz Fusion/Funk?

Pat Metheny = Jazz/Jazz Fusion

*********************

Can we agree any music that can be described as fusion is prob’ly unlistenable?

A lot the music that is out there is a fusion of some sort R&B( the original R&B not what is classed as R&B now) , Ska, C&W , and even Rock and Roll etc