Sue Denim Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 2 hours ago, bazil85 said: There are enough resources to support anyone and everyone in the Uk through this, that doesn’t necessarily mean replacement of income but people don’t need that to get through this pandemic. They can support & protect business in many ways but I’m not ignorant enough to say there won’t be challenging time’s ahead. Right now though I believe the priority should be the protection of human life. Says baz on his cushy full salary. Your priority is your virtue signalling at the expense of human life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 On 2/28/2020 at 4:05 PM, Ayrshire Saints said: I suggest you stock up on tins, tape up the windows and doors and hunker down for a few weeks. Meanwhile in the real world the rest of us will continue about our normal business taking the self same life precautions we always do. The media / social media lead hysteria is off the scale. Imagine if a real plague emerged in the developed world, it would be armageddon stuff. Let's just concentrate on making it to Hampden. On 2/29/2020 at 9:34 AM, Ayrshire Saints said: I make no claim whatsoever to be a medical expert. Just pointed out that whilst acknowledging the virus I am not changing my normal routines and there is definite hysteria being media driven trying to whip the nation into a frenzy of panic. That's the problem with 24hr news channels. Too much time and too little news. 5 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said: 20 hours ago, oaksoft said: The streets are littered with discarded masks. Where exactly are you visiting / shopping. Non compliance rife and streets littered with masks. I think I have seen 1 discarded mask this week and virtually 100% mask compliance here in Ayrshire. Speaks volumes about the people in our respective areas. It's hear to stay so best just get used to it, moaning about it constantly is a waste of breath. Thankfully we don't have to wear them in the open air like large swathes of Spain (for now) This is what happens when the media whips up hysteria and people start believing it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 25 minutes ago, Sue Denim said: Your concern is for virtue signalling over human life. The policies you have supported have resulted in many thousands of deaths. Incorrect, you've shared multiple statistics that show you are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 @bazil85 says he can’t put a price on life. But the National Institute of Clinical Health does. It puts a price of £30k on each additional year of quality of life before it will authorise a new treatment. At a cost of at least £30 billion to the U.K. that equates to 10,000,000 extra quality of year lives. If that is the precedent then we’ll need to spend that on every other possible morbidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 minute ago, bazil85 said: Incorrect, you've shared multiple statistics that show you are wrong. I’m correct, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 25 minutes ago, Sue Denim said: First we had the sick and the elderly thrown out of hospitals to protect the NHS. Now we find that many of the care home deaths were caused by dementia sufferers being sedated. And you clapped for that @bazil85 Blood on your hands. Blood on your hands. https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18590724.sedation-manage-lockdown-distress-may-led-dementia-deaths/ You bring this up often but it highlights the contradiction that is your world view. You've championed no lockdown whatsoever so where do these people go if it was up to you? The hospitals that would factually have had more admissions, care-homes or elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sue Denim said: @bazil85 says he can’t put a price on life. But the National Institute of Clinical Health does. It puts a price of £30k on each additional year of quality of life before it will authorise a new treatment. At a cost of at least £30 billion to the U.K. that equates to 10,000,000 extra quality of year lives. If that is the precedent then we’ll need to spend that on every other possible morbidity. Deflection, not related to my points. If you want to discuss my views on something else, fine. I have destroyed you on this topic long enough lol, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 27 minutes ago, Sue Denim said: Says baz on his cushy full salary. Your priority is your virtue signalling at the expense of human life. My view wouldn't change regardless of my situation right now. You may think that my morality moves based on finances but it doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 40,000 deaths caused by lockdown so far, 200,000 still come, millions of jobs lost and not a single life saved. All so the likes of @bazil85 could enjoy his 4 month virtue signalling lockdown holiday on full pay. Disgusting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/lockdown-stopped-470k-covid-19-deaths-in-uk-say-researchers/20040960.articleLockdown measures have had a ‘large effect’ in controlling the Covid-19 outbreak, leading to 470,000 deaths being avoided in the UK, according to new research.https://newsroom.uvahealth.com/2020/07/03/covid-19-deaths-in-sweden/Sweden’s controversial decision not to lock down during COVID-19 produced more deaths and greater healthcare demand than seen in countries with earlier, more stringent interventions, a new analysis finds.Make your own minds up folks, but please wear a mask and stay safe. [emoji106] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 People who think that lockdowns and masks can stop seasonal respiratory viruses remind me of King Canute’s courtiers, eh [mention=8643]bazil85[/mention] ? [emoji23]For those that live in Spain, France, Germany......... what season is this flu thing likely to hit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said: http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/lockdown-stopped-470k-covid-19-deaths-in-uk-say-researchers/20040960.article Lockdown measures have had a ‘large effect’ in controlling the Covid-19 outbreak, leading to 470,000 deaths being avoided in the UK, according to new research. https://newsroom.uvahealth.com/2020/07/03/covid-19-deaths-in-sweden/ Sweden’s controversial decision not to lock down during COVID-19 produced more deaths and greater healthcare demand than seen in countries with earlier, more stringent interventions, a new analysis finds. Make your own minds up folks, but please wear a mask and stay safe. There have been 640,000 deaths in the entire planet and here is someone telling us that an additional 470,000 would have died in the U.K. alone without a lockdown. Anyone with half a brain can see that isn’t possible. And the evidence for this is a report where the authors have used their own initial wildest exaggerated forecast and subtracted the number of deaths that actually did happen and used this difference to validate their initial forecast As for Sweden, they’ve had fewer deaths per million than Scotland despite not having a lockdown. Those with an independent mind will make up their own minds. No need to wear a mask to stay safe folks. 👍 PS I’m off out again tonight - what can I say, I’m a very popular guy. I’ll PM you the name of the venue and you can trawl through its Facebook page comments to tell me what the score is. 😂 Edited July 25, 2020 by Sue Denim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 14 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said: On 7/18/2020 at 9:35 AM, Sue Denim said: People who think that lockdowns and masks can stop seasonal respiratory viruses remind me of King Canute’s courtiers, eh [mention=8643]bazil85[/mention] ? For those that live in Spain, France, Germany......... what season is this flu thing likely to hit? Winter That’s when coronaviruses usually peak. How’s that R number doing in Ireland? 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 Peru locked down before the UK, Brazil didn’t lockdown and neither did Sweden. That lockdown appears to have worked well in Peru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, Sue Denim said: 40,000 deaths caused by lockdown so far, 200,000 still come, millions of jobs lost and not a single life saved. All so the likes of @bazil85 could enjoy his 4 month virtue signalling lockdown holiday on full pay. Disgusting - You’ve shared multiple statistics that prove Covid19 has been the driving force for excessive death to date. - you have also shown that combined excessive deaths for other causes are not up at this time - a future state where many people will die seems completely true, it is a horrible situation we are in. However it isn’t the case this approach will cause more people to die. It’s evidence based that it would have been far worse if we hadn’t taken steps to curb the factor that caused excessive deaths to blow up. - you’ve been proven wrong time & time again. You doubling down on your clear errors won’t change that. - you can deflect your upset that many on here were right & you were wrong on current situation. I don’t mind being your coping mechanism. But it’ll never stop being true that my job does not impact my world view on letting people die for financial gain. Edited July 26, 2020 by bazil85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) Definitely not rebranding flu deaths in Australia.... And defo not winter.... Edited July 26, 2020 by Sue Denim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) From the Lancet Full lockdown policies in Western Europe countries have no evident impacts on the COVID-19 epidemic. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20078717v1 Edited July 26, 2020 by Sue Denim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 As the government urges us all to get a flu shot this winter, out comes some evidence that the flu shot increases your chances of catching covid oh dear https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m810/rr-0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 Herr Boris Johnson and his henchman Matt Hancock announce a fight against obesity. Closing gyms for 4 months was obviously part of that plan. Meanwhile up in Scotland Nic Sturge-un says its okay to go to the bookies and then nip over to the Last Post for a few pints but no way can you go to the gym. All in the name of health. You couldn’t make it up 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, bazil85 said: - you can deflect your upset that many on here were right & you were wrong on current situation. I don’t mind being your coping mechanism. But it’ll never stop being true that my job does not impact my world view on letting people die for financial gain. Yet again it's all just so tediously easy to say when you are comfortably well paid. You are not going to persuade a single person on this point so you may as well move on. People always change their minds on stuff like this when their income is taken away. You're nothing special on that score. If you'd experienced a day of genuine hardship in your pampered life you wouldn't be so arrogant over this. Edited July 26, 2020 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, bazil85 said: Right now though I believe the priority should be the protection of human life. What's your "moral high ground" message to all the people in the country with cancer who haven't been able to get full access to the NHS for treatment since March? What's your "moral high ground" message to all those disabled people who need constant care and have been effectively abandoned inside their own houses since March as the councils cut back on many services aimed at these people? What do you say to all the sick kids who are having their treatment put on hold because of a virus which almost exclusively affects 70+ year olds? Tricky thing this "moral high ground" isn't it? Edited July 26, 2020 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) https://www.aier.org/article/imperial-college-model-applied-to-sweden-yields-preposterous-results/amp/ The Imperial College model which @Cookie Monster quoted yesterday as claiming that lockdown saved 470,000 lives in the U.K., when applied to Sweden, predicted that 96,000 would die without lockdown. Actual number of death = 5,697 They were only out by 94% 😂 Edited July 26, 2020 by Sue Denim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Sue Denim said: As the government urges us all to get a flu shot this winter, out comes some evidence that the flu shot increases your chances of catching covid oh dear https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m810/rr-0 All a bit vague - an article from March 2 in response to one from Feb 28 whose main thrust was that the Covid pandemic might have a significant effect on the other NHS services. No doubt you'll agree with the headline comment from the parent article... Quote In the aftermath of the 2009 H1N1 global threat, the Department of Health’s pandemic preparedness planning team paid particular attention to the value, or otherwise, of containment as a strategy to prevent spread. In 2009 considerable time and effort were spent on a catch, isolate, and treat approach in the early stages of the emerging pandemic, and public health teams were expending considerable energy with, as it turned out, little effect. The resulting UK Influenza Pandemic Preparedness Strategy 20111 emphasised the need to maintain the continuity of essential services and continue everyday activities as far as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, oaksoft said: What's your "moral high ground" message to all the people in the country with cancer who haven't been able to get full access to the NHS for treatment since March? What's your "moral high ground" message to all those disabled people who need constant care and have been effectively abandoned inside their own houses since March as the councils cut back on many services aimed at these people? What do you say to all the sick kids who are having their treatment put on hold because of a virus which almost exclusively affects 70+ year olds? Tricky thing this "moral high ground" isn't it? The average age of death WITH Covid in Scotland is 81 for men and 85 women - above the average age of life expectancy in Scotland. The average number of co morbidities - illnesses so severe that they appear on the death certificate is 2. The most common co morbidity is dementia. Most of these people would have died this year anyway. But their deaths were hastened- not by Covid - but by being thrown out of hospitals and / or denied NHS treatment and / or neglected and / or sedated. We quarantined the young and healthy and failed to protect the vulnerable. But, hey, at least we protected the NHS and @bazil85 got his lockdown holiday on full pay and can virtue signal while others lose their livelihood Edited July 26, 2020 by Sue Denim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: All a bit vague - an article from March 2 in response to one from Feb 28 whose main thrust was that the Covid pandemic might have a significant effect on the other NHS services. No doubt you'll agree with the headline comment from the parent article... Indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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