faraway saint Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 (edited) @ALBIONSAINT beat me to it with the latest idea from the Scottish Nazi party to increase the unit price on alcohol, already at a might 50p to an astonishing 65p. A 30% rise with nothing more than waffle to support this move. Estimates, nothing concrete that the current stealth tax is having any effect on the very people it's supposed to help. Alcohol deaths Based on comparisons with England, it estimated there were 13.4% fewer deaths related to alcohol than would have happened without the policy, as well as 4.1% fewer hospital admissions. However, it reported "limited evidence of any reduction in consumption" among people with alcohol dependence. However, Scottish Conservative health spokesman Dr Sandesh Gulhane said MUP was not a "miracle cure" and "simply punishes responsible drinkers". "As a practising GP, I am well aware of the plight of alcoholism in Scotland," he said. "However, it is clear that MUP is not reducing alcohol-related deaths as the SNP are claiming. "What is perhaps most concerning is the report from Public Health Scotland that highlighted that problem drinkers are choosing to skip meals in order to buy alcohol. "I am deeply concerned that the deputy first minister did not address my concerns on the failure of MUP to reduce alcohol-related deaths and help dependent drinkers." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68238846 Edited February 8 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALBIONSAINT Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, faraway saint said: @ALBIONSAINT beat me to it with the latest idea from the Scottish Nazi party to increase the unit price on alcohol, already at a might 50p to an astonishing 65p. A 30% rise with nothing more than waffle to support this move. Estimates, nothing concrete that the current stealth tax is having any effect on the very people it's supposed to help. Alcohol deaths Based on comparisons with England, it estimated there were 13.4% fewer deaths related to alcohol than would have happened without the policy, as well as 4.1% fewer hospital admissions. However, it reported "limited evidence of any reduction in consumption" among people with alcohol dependence. However, Scottish Conservative health spokesman Dr Sandesh Gulhane said MUP was not a "miracle cure" and "simply punishes responsible drinkers". "As a practising GP, I am well aware of the plight of alcoholism in Scotland," he said. "However, it is clear that MUP is not reducing alcohol-related deaths as the SNP are claiming. "What is perhaps most concerning is the report from Public Health Scotland that highlighted that problem drinkers are choosing to skip meals in order to buy alcohol. "I am deeply concerned that the deputy first minister did not address my concerns on the failure of MUP to reduce alcohol-related deaths and help dependent drinkers." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68238846 There is a reason why Scotland is the first and only country in the world to implement it. It doesn’t work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 8 Author Report Share Posted February 8 Just now, ALBIONSAINT said: There is a reason why Scotland is the first and only country in the world to implement it. It doesn’t work. Aye, hammer the majority who are "sensible" drinkers while having no effect on the people with a problem who will get the extra money from any means they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALBIONSAINT Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Aye, hammer the majority who are "sensible" drinkers while having no effect on the people with a problem who will get the extra money from any means they can. I thought they would have learnt from previous mistakes. When you increase the price then people who are addicted to alcohol will simply turn to petty crime (shop lifting, breaking into cars etc to fund the addiction) the petty crime rates dropped dramatically when methadon was introduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 8 Author Report Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said: I thought they would have learnt from previous mistakes. When you increase the price then people who are addicted to alcohol will simply turn to petty crime (shop lifting, breaking into cars etc to fund the addiction) the petty crime rates dropped dramatically when methadon was introduced. Not exactly rocket science but this seems to be acceptable for the "do gooders" while Mr & Mrs average drinkers has to fork out more while lining the Governments pockets. I owe you a couple of likes, mines have run out. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALBIONSAINT Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 7 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Not exactly rocket science but this seems to be acceptable for the "do gooders" while Mr & Mrs average drinkers has to fork out more while lining the Governments pockets. I owe you a couple of likes, mines have run out. 👍 That’s all we need on here, a minimum like’s charge 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 8 Author Report Share Posted February 8 10 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said: That’s all we need on here, a minimum like’s charge 😅 I'm all for an increase in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 8 Author Report Share Posted February 8 Blue cards to be introduced in football. A 10 minute sin bin, great idea, @div, my 10 mins is up. The International Football Association Board [IFAB] will publish the detailed protocols for sin-bin trials in professional football on Friday. The IFAB is expected to include a provision for blue cards. In the trials, referees will have the power to send players off for 10 minutes for dissent or cynical fouls. https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13066894/ifab-set-to-introduce-blue-cards-for-football-sin-bins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledfan Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 16 hours ago, faraway saint said: Blue cards to be introduced in football. A 10 minute sin bin, great idea, @div, my 10 mins is up. The International Football Association Board [IFAB] will publish the detailed protocols for sin-bin trials in professional football on Friday. The IFAB is expected to include a provision for blue cards. In the trials, referees will have the power to send players off for 10 minutes for dissent or cynical fouls. https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13066894/ifab-set-to-introduce-blue-cards-for-football-sin-bins Another stupid decision that will in my opinion only make issues worse! If it's descent then it's yellow followed by red, in fact it should be a ban if serious. "grey areas" are what makes it harder to referees. Better rules would be improved communication on the pitch, referees only dealing with captains and more importantly clarity and simplification of rules with referees getting better training and assessment on games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 9 Author Report Share Posted February 9 48 minutes ago, exiledfan said: Another stupid decision that will in my opinion only make issues worse! If it's descent then it's yellow followed by red, in fact it should be a ban if serious. "grey areas" are what makes it harder to referees. Better rules would be improved communication on the pitch, referees only dealing with captains and more importantly clarity and simplification of rules with referees getting better training and assessment on games. I'm not so keen on this idea. While I see what they are trying to achieve this isn't the way to go about it. It could potentially get very messy if there was a sudden spell of madness and a few players were sin binned around the same time. It could also see teams sitting deep for the period their player is off and killing any chance of an open game. More negatives than positives IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmac Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 52 minutes ago, faraway saint said: I'm not so keen on this idea. While I see what they are trying to achieve this isn't the way to go about it. It could potentially get very messy if there was a sudden spell of madness and a few players were sin binned around the same time. It could also see teams sitting deep for the period their player is off and killing any chance of an open game. More negatives than positives IMO. I agree with what you say. What happens if your goalkeeper gets a blue card? Do you put an outfield player in goal? Do you bring on a sub goalkeeper if it is a critical point in the game?? What do you when your blue carded goalkeeper comes back? Sub off the sub? Play them outfield? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 20 hours ago, faraway saint said: @ALBIONSAINT the Scottish Nazi party FFS I thought you were better than that. 20 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said: There is a reason why Scotland is the first and only country in the world to implement it. It doesn’t work. First? https://theconversation.com/minimum-alcohol-pricing-canadas-accidental-public-health-strategy-25185 Only? https://research.senedd.wales/research-articles/wales-drinking-habits-how-much-has-changed-since-minimum-pricing-for-alcohol/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 9 Author Report Share Posted February 9 17 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said: FFS I thought you were better than that. First? https://theconversation.com/minimum-alcohol-pricing-canadas-accidental-public-health-strategy-25185 Only? https://research.senedd.wales/research-articles/wales-drinking-habits-how-much-has-changed-since-minimum-pricing-for-alcohol/ Aye, all very good but an ill thought out idea with little, if any, benefits for the real people who need it. 👎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledfan Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 26 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Aye, all very good but an ill thought out idea with little, if any, benefits for the real people who need it. 👎 Agreed, all it does is add to those who have a problem by adding cost onto high unit low cost drinks that is notable whilst not having any impact on premium cost high ABV as the manufacturer is already above the minimum unit cost. This doesn't stop drinking and the sceptic in me thinks this is another way of recovering from the disaster of the deposit return scheme and tax deficit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALBIONSAINT Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 6 hours ago, Cookie Monster said: FFS I thought you were better than that. First? https://theconversation.com/minimum-alcohol-pricing-canadas-accidental-public-health-strategy-25185 Only? https://research.senedd.wales/research-articles/wales-drinking-habits-how-much-has-changed-since-minimum-pricing-for-alcohol/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 10 Author Report Share Posted February 10 Alcohol-specific deaths in Scotland Source: Alcohol-specific deaths in Scotland, 2022 www.nrscotland.gov.uk Small increase in alcohol- specific deaths in 2022 Alcohol-specific deaths have generally risen since 2012. Before this point, deaths fells sharply from the peak of 1,417 in 2006 to 968 in 2012. Last year, there were 31 more deaths than in 2021. Alcohol-specific mortality rate rises slowly since 2012 The rate of alcohol-specific mortality fell between 2006 and 2012. Since then it has generally risen. Males deaths continue to account for around two thirds of all alcohol-specific deaths. Rates are 4.3 times as high in most deprived areas compared to least deprived The gap between alcohol specific mortality rates in the most and least deprived areas has narrowed over time. However, alcohol specific deaths continue to be more common in more deprived areas. 1979 2006 2012 2022 1,417 968 1,276 Number of deaths chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files//statistics/alcohol-deaths/2022/alcohol-specific-deaths-22-report.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledfan Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 3 hours ago, faraway saint said: Alcohol-specific deaths in Scotland Source: Alcohol-specific deaths in Scotland, 2022 www.nrscotland.gov.uk Small increase in alcohol- specific deaths in 2022 Alcohol-specific deaths have generally risen since 2012. Before this point, deaths fells sharply from the peak of 1,417 in 2006 to 968 in 2012. Last year, there were 31 more deaths than in 2021. Alcohol-specific mortality rate rises slowly since 2012 The rate of alcohol-specific mortality fell between 2006 and 2012. Since then it has generally risen. Males deaths continue to account for around two thirds of all alcohol-specific deaths. Rates are 4.3 times as high in most deprived areas compared to least deprived The gap between alcohol specific mortality rates in the most and least deprived areas has narrowed over time. However, alcohol specific deaths continue to be more common in more deprived areas. 1979 2006 2012 2022 1,417 968 1,276 Number of deaths chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files//statistics/alcohol-deaths/2022/alcohol-specific-deaths-22-report.pdf The big difference I see is the way that people drink. https://www.thecaterer.com/news/number-uk-pubs-drops-below-100000-two-decades There is a move away from pubs to home drinking and the social element has been lost. In particular I feel for the retired generation where a few hours in the local was time out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portmahomack saint Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 17 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said: Well that's it then I'll be chucking it, nay mare booze for me, when does it kick in In the meantime cheers everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 17 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said: So Canada & Wales aren't countries. 😂 3 hours ago, faraway saint said: Alcohol-specific deaths in Scotland Source: Alcohol-specific deaths in Scotland, 2022 www.nrscotland.gov.uk Small increase in alcohol- specific deaths in 2022 Alcohol-specific deaths have generally risen since 2012. Before this point, deaths fells sharply from the peak of 1,417 in 2006 to 968 in 2012. Last year, there were 31 more deaths than in 2021. Alcohol-specific mortality rate rises slowly since 2012 The rate of alcohol-specific mortality fell between 2006 and 2012. Since then it has generally risen. Males deaths continue to account for around two thirds of all alcohol-specific deaths. Rates are 4.3 times as high in most deprived areas compared to least deprived The gap between alcohol specific mortality rates in the most and least deprived areas has narrowed over time. However, alcohol specific deaths continue to be more common in more deprived areas. 1979 2006 2012 2022 1,417 968 1,276 Number of deaths chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files//statistics/alcohol-deaths/2022/alcohol-specific-deaths-22-report.pdf Having lost one aunt to alcohol abuse I'm glad that my other aunt and uncle realised they were so close to following her to the grave. They both abstained for over 30 years living a good life. So I know it's not just pricing that'll work but also education. Also remembering that you failed to mention the reduction in hospital admissions. Here's a more comprehensive report. University of Glasgow study indicates a 13.4% reduction in deaths, and a 4.1% reduction in hospital admissions wholly attributable to alcohol consumption in the first two and a half years after MUP was introduced in May 2018. The report also concludes the policy had reduced deaths and hospital admissions where alcohol consumption may have been a factor. Researchers say they are confident there is a link between the introduction of MUP and the reduction in alcohol health harms. They also noted there had been significant reductions in deaths in areas of deprivation, suggesting MUP has helped reduce inequalities in alcohol-attributable deaths in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 10 Author Report Share Posted February 10 30 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said: So Canada & Wales aren't countries. 😂 Having lost one aunt to alcohol abuse I'm glad that my other aunt and uncle realised they were so close to following her to the grave. They both abstained for over 30 years living a good life. So I know it's not just pricing that'll work but also education. Also remembering that you failed to mention the reduction in hospital admissions. Here's a more comprehensive report. University of Glasgow study indicates a 13.4% reduction in deaths, and a 4.1% reduction in hospital admissions wholly attributable to alcohol consumption in the first two and a half years after MUP was introduced in May 2018. The report also concludes the policy had reduced deaths and hospital admissions where alcohol consumption may have been a factor. Researchers say they are confident there is a link between the introduction of MUP and the reduction in alcohol health harms. They also noted there had been significant reductions in deaths in areas of deprivation, suggesting MUP has helped reduce inequalities in alcohol-attributable deaths in Scotland. Your "comprehensive" report simply CAN'T prove that any reduction was simply down to MUP whereas the increase in deaths from 2022 are a DIRECT results of alcohol abuse. There will be many reasons there's been a reduction in hospital admissions and deaths, the much used "cost of living crisis" for starters. Oh, while we're throwing around some stats, the Scottish NHS, or bottomless money pit, are proving yet again they are unproductive, despite considerable increases across the board. The COVID-19 pandemic is having long-lasting impacts on NHS hospital activity, productivity and performance in Scotland. The Scottish NHS handled 8% fewer emergency admissions, elective day patients and outpatient appointments, as well as 21% fewer elective inpatient admissions, in April–June 2023 than pre-pandemic. That was despite health spending per person being at least 10% higher in real terms in 2022–23 than in 2019–20, and the NHS employing 9% more consultants and 6% more nurses in April–June 2023 than in 2019. This is suggestive of a significant fall in hospital productivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portmahomack saint Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 3 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said: So Canada & Wales aren't countries. 😂 Having lost one aunt to alcohol abuse I'm glad that my other aunt and uncle realised they were so close to following her to the grave. They both abstained for over 30 years living a good life. So I know it's not just pricing that'll work but also education. Also remembering that you failed to mention the reduction in hospital admissions. Here's a more comprehensive report. University of Glasgow study indicates a 13.4% reduction in deaths, and a 4.1% reduction in hospital admissions wholly attributable to alcohol consumption in the first two and a half years after MUP was introduced in May 2018. The report also concludes the policy had reduced deaths and hospital admissions where alcohol consumption may have been a factor. Researchers say they are confident there is a link between the introduction of MUP and the reduction in alcohol health harms. They also noted there had been significant reductions in deaths in areas of deprivation, suggesting MUP has helped reduce inequalities in alcohol-attributable deaths in Scotland. I've seen all this evidence and so has he and his wee Tory politician Gullane but they choose to ignore it and spout pish instead, and no surprise they also fail to tell you they're considering whether to introduce MUP in England too Ireland and Canada and a couple of countries in Europe have all followed Scotland initiative and more will follow when results of MUP are studied properly, remember not long after MUP was introduced we got stuck in our houses {lockdown} when deaths from alcohol in the UK rose by 18% Can you imagine getting stuck a house with the likes of Faraway and not hitting the drink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 10 Author Report Share Posted February 10 6 minutes ago, portmahomack saint said: I've seen all this evidence and so has he and his wee Tory politician Gullane but they choose to ignore it and spout pish instead, and no surprise they also fail to tell you they're considering whether to introduce MUP in England too Ireland and Canada and a couple of countries in Europe have all followed Scotland initiative and more will follow when results of MUP are studied properly, remember not long after MUP was introduced we got stuck in our houses {lockdown} when deaths from alcohol in the UK rose by 18% Can you imagine getting stuck a house with the likes of Faraway and not hitting the drink In March 2020, the Government said there were “no plans for the introduction of MUP in England” although it would continue to monitor the progress of MUP in Scotland and consider the evidence of its impact.3 Typical SNP supporter, half truths and downright drivel. What happened to "Free for 23"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 10 Author Report Share Posted February 10 https://ifs.org.uk/news/scottish-nhs-treating-fewer-patients-pre-pandemic-despite-big-increases-staffing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portmahomack saint Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 1 minute ago, faraway saint said: In March 2020, the Government said there were “no plans for the introduction of MUP in England” although it would continue to monitor the progress of MUP in Scotland and consider the evidence of its impact.3 Typical SNP supporter, half truths and downright drivel. What happened to "Free for 23"? Jesus no wonder there's a drink problem so you have to pay once you hit 24 by then the damage is done is that a Tory or Starmer policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 10 Author Report Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said: So Canada & Wales aren't countries. 😂 Having lost one aunt to alcohol abuse I'm glad that my other aunt and uncle realised they were so close to following her to the grave. They both abstained for over 30 years living a good life. So I know it's not just pricing that'll work but also education. Also remembering that you failed to mention the reduction in hospital admissions. Here's a more comprehensive report. University of Glasgow study indicates a 13.4% reduction in deaths, and a 4.1% reduction in hospital admissions wholly attributable to alcohol consumption in the first two and a half years after MUP was introduced in May 2018. The report also concludes the policy had reduced deaths and hospital admissions where alcohol consumption may have been a factor. Researchers say they are confident there is a link between the introduction of MUP and the reduction in alcohol health harms. They also noted there had been significant reductions in deaths in areas of deprivation, suggesting MUP has helped reduce inequalities in alcohol-attributable deaths in Scotland. Here's a more realistic statement................pay attention to "associated" and "might have happened". MUP was associated with an estimated 13.4% reduction in deaths wholly attributable to alcohol, compared to what might have happened if MUP had not been in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.