reborn saint Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Why would anyone see a Motherwell CIC as competition? It's just a ridiculous notion. Spartans and Clyde wouldn't have been shitting themselves at the prospect of St Mirren going down the CIC route so why be "worried" about a Motherwell CIC unless you are worried that you might have been able to attract a number of Lanarkshire football teams that may now go for the more local option. Fir Parks facilities are just about the same as Greenhill Road. They've got a large lounge under their main stand which has been hosting local functions for decades. It's dated and tired but it's been turning a profit for the club for years. Where a CIC could allow them to take off is that North Lanarkshire Council are looking to dump some liabilities and it could be that Motherwell could take advantage. Wishaw Juniors already secured one site on a long term lease. Motherwell are not becoming a cic they will be an "industrial and provident society" which will have a single member or corporate membership. No mention of a community one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 No, you aren't, in fact, talking bollocks. Your sentiment is both correct, and obvious. Motherwell allocate 2400 more seats to the Old Firm than we do. This resulted in them having 10000 more Old Firm fans than us in their ground last season, ergo, their average gate increases by 500 just because of the extra Old Firm away capacity. Yeah it does make a difference. Financially too. They are also better placed for getting punters in from other clubs. The Embra clubs take better supports through to Fir Park. We could really do with another couple of teams from our vicinity coming into the SPL and sticking around instead of the likes of Dunfermline. Another club with a bigger capacity ground and who will benefit from travelling supports from the likes of the oldfirm, dundee utd, and Hearts and Hibs. Even St.Johnstone will travel through there in reasonable numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I go to our home games but I refuse to go to games involving the oldfirm as I refuse to be treated like an imbecile by police and stewards while being forced to watch a two tier policing system going on inside our own ground and see the oldfirm punters being policed and stwearded totally differently. A lot of our fans are of the same mind and don't go to these games anymore as it's just not very pleasant. TV coverage does play its part too but the small capacity and the fact the games are on TV is a perfect storm in terms of having small crowds at those games. With a capacity the size we have we will never have very big crowds anyway. I dinno how often Motherwell have had a capacity crowd but they certainly get more oldfirm fans inside their ground at those matches. It does make a big difference. Throwing season tickets at kids is definitely the way to go. My nephew is a huge Killie fan and he got into it via the free season ticket if accompanied by an adult scheme they ran for a number of years. My best mate is also a Killie fan and both his wee girls go to games with him, they both get in for next to nothing as well. It is the route I'm glad we are on too, kids in for free is where its at. The faithers or grandfaithers will come along with them too. Anyway, it would be good to need a bigger capacity in the home end at some stage. When the time comes the corners will be filled in. Oh and there might be a guy onboard who's company kinnda do that thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Motherwell are not becoming a cic they will be an "industrial and provident society" which will have a single member or corporate membership. No mention of a community one. Is that like a co-op society? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) As Richard's unelected unofficial PR advisor i wish to make it clear he was miss quoted. He said "I hate IT when people moan but aren't prepared to do something about it"...I should know I was there ...well i might have been there. Can anyone take my speeding points on their license? While I was just making an irrelevant observation, it certainly occurred to me that he'd been the victim of a mis-quote. Couldn't help myself, though Edited June 8, 2011 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Motherwell are not becoming a cic they will be an "industrial and provident society" which will have a single member or corporate membership. No mention of a community one. In the words of Leeann Dempster in The Herald, “We’re going to create two, or three, levels of membership. The first will be aimed at the regular punter, costing about £300." I would suspect the third level would be the Community one. The Corporate Membership is quoted at £5000 pa. On the face of it, it doesn't look that different to the 10000hours base model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilsaint Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 In the words of Leeann Dempster in The Herald, “We’re going to create two, or three, levels of membership. The first will be aimed at the regular punter, costing about £300." I would suspect the third level would be the Community one. The Corporate Membership is quoted at £5000 pa. On the face of it, it doesn't look that different to the 10000hours base model. Also straight from Leeann Dempster, "There will also be corporate membership, and possibly a tier for wealthier individuals. Either she has her numbers of tiers wrong or there ain't no community membership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Why would anyone see a Motherwell CIC as competition? It's just a ridiculous notion. It's your notion stoopit, nobody mentioned them as competition. The more CICs the merrier, providing of course that they do it properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Wee bit concerned about Motherwell's plans for a CIC. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray7 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Why? Because they might steal Richard Atkinson at the last minute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Because they might steal Richard Atkinson at the last minute Aye well fair enough. Everyone knows Lanarkshire is so much more desirable than Renfrewshire.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds10 Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) Sorry posted twice. Edited June 9, 2011 by ds10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds10 Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Aye well fair enough. Everyone knows Lanarkshire is so much more desirable than Renfrewshire.... As the 'Resident Motherwell Fan', do you know much about what these guys are planning? Does it sound like the kind of venture in which you'd like to invest? As far as I can tell from the article all the money raised in this case will be going directly to the club. I suppose as they're simply being handed the shares the can build the idea as they go along rather than having to have everything set up at the start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 As the 'Resident Motherwell Fan', do you know much about what these guys are planning? Does it sound like the kind of venture in which you'd like to invest? As far as I can tell from the article all the money raised in this case will be going directly to the club. I suppose as they're simply being handed the shares the can build the idea as they go along rather than having to have everything set up at the start? Boyle basically gave away his shares so he could walk away from the club. Unfortunately for Motherwell he had also totally goosed their credit rating because of the administration and that means there is no chance of the club getting an overdraft. Motherwells project looks pretty much to me like they want to raise three quarters of a million to operate like a facility they can use if they have cashflow troubles or unexpected expense. Probably sensible stuff really if they can raise the money. It doesn't seem to be like our plan though. Similar, kinda, but not the same thing. The one thing they do have in their favour is that they can start debt free whereas ours has to cover the cost of buying the club. There plan seems to be in its infancy and looks a bit sketched out on the back of a fag packet so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) As the 'Resident Motherwell Fan', do you know much about what these guys are planning? Does it sound like the kind of venture in which you'd like to invest? As far as I can tell from the article all the money raised in this case will be going directly to the club. I suppose as they're simply being handed the shares the can build the idea as they go along rather than having to have everything set up at the start? I'm no more a Motherwell fan than I am a St Mirren one these days. The tag is something Div put on my account and I've never felt the need to change it. Truthfully, I've no idea what they are up to. They weren't at the SEN conference a week ago so I wouldn't have thought they were going down that route-but then again 10000hours weren't there either. From that conference I would have expected Partick Thisle or Ayr United to have been next up on a CIC / SEN type route. Would I invest? Not if it's a supporters trust model as I read late last night. If it was a CIC or an SEN though I'd imagine the football club I'm involved with would be all over it like a rash - if the definitions were clear as to what they would get in return. Edited June 9, 2011 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 I've found this on Industrial and Provident Societies - http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/doing/small_firms/msr/societies/index.shtml - and there does have to be a community aspect to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 I'm no more a Motherwell fan than I am a St Mirren one these days. The tag is something Div put on my account and I've never felt the need to change it. Truthfully, I've no idea what they are up to. They weren't at the SEN conference a week ago so I wouldn't have thought they were going down that route-but then again 10000hours weren't there either. From that conference I would have expected Partick Thisle or Ayr United to have been next up on a CIC / SEN type route. Would I invest? Not if it's a supporters trust model as I read late last night. If it was a CIC or an SEN though I'd imagine the football club I'm involved with would be all over it like a rash - if the definitions were clear as to what they would get in return. Off topic what is the football club your involved with and at what age group may be looking for a friendly, I run a West Lothian County Select. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Off topic what is the football club your involved with and at what age group may be looking for a friendly, I run a West Lothian County Select. CK1 it's Wishaw Wycombe Wanderers 98's. The plan is for the last training session to be on Friday night as a lot of the pitches in the local area are now closed for the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 I've found this on Industrial and Provident Societies - http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/doing/small_firms/msr/societies/index.shtml - and there does have to be a community aspect to it. Sorry Stuart i thought you were a Motherwell supporter and as i was interested in the 2 different models (cic/ Idus..Prov) You were the the obvious link to debate it. I know you have posted "Why are you worried about a Motherwell cic" but i assume that was directed at Sid. My opinion is that the more resources provincial clubs can obtain the better the chance of a better League. As St Mirren are (in my mind) a similar if not bigger club (obviously not at this time) than Motherwell and are in competition for league placement with them then i like to think we can create a model that exceeds theirs. As it stands the Motherwell model for me is easy to get off the ground but will deliver substancialy less in income as they hoped for. The St Mirren model has been very difficult to get off the ground but will deliver real constant growth in revenue for the years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Why? I like Motherwell fans. They hate the OF just like us. They can be a wee bit above themselves at times, but on the whole good OF-haters. That wee fanny Boyle was as shady as f"k. I wouldn't have trusted him or any of his fellow board members to hold onto a pub kitty never mind run a community membership scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Sorry Stuart i thought you were a Motherwell supporter and as i was interested in the 2 different models (cic/ Idus..Prov) You were the the obvious link to debate it. I know you have posted "Why are you worried about a Motherwell cic" but i assume that was directed at Sid. My opinion is that the more resources provincial clubs can obtain the better the chance of a better League. As St Mirren are (in my mind) a similar if not bigger club (obviously not at this time) than Motherwell and are in competition for league placement with them then i like to think we can create a model that exceeds theirs. As it stands the Motherwell model for me is easy to get off the ground but will deliver substancialy less in income as they hoped for. The St Mirren model has been very difficult to get off the ground but will deliver real constant growth in revenue for the years to come. Nah not me RS. I'm not really a "fan" of any football club these days. At least not in any sense that I would have recognised the word when I was a lot younger. I'm a paying customer of a number of different football clubs these days and enjoy being able to view the sport from a more distant position. When I was younger I had a very idealistic notion of what I thought St Mirren was, never really classing the club as a cold hard business. I believed a lot of the bollocks marketing pish about how important the Community was to the club. Looking back it was incredibly naive of me. However the way I view the CIC is that it's more than just a nod in the right direction. It's a genuine attempt at putting the club at the heart of the community, in the way it always should have been. And to me the more that happens across football the better for everyone. I maintain that the success of any CIC will be completely dependant on the quality of those elected and I've got concerns in that regard in that many of the people who are on this forum, who will have a vote, took so long to get beyond the discussion of where revenue from the bar was going. As for Motherwell, I think the potential is similar but it depends on how it's approached. Motherwell FC have managed to maintain far closer links with the local community than St Mirren have done over the past 15 years. Some of that may well be accounted for by the fact that fans had to pull together when they were in administration. How it develops will be interesting. St Mirren have the more modern facilities just now, but Motherwell have a large empty Ravenscraig site next door and a local authority that is keen to dump some of it's liabilities. Interesting times ahead but regardless of who is bigger or better I'd like to think we'll finally see a real attempt to get clubs and players back working in their local communities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Nah not me RS. I'm not really a "fan" of any football club these days. At least not in any sense that I would have recognised the word when I was a lot younger. I'm a paying customer of a number of different football clubs these days and enjoy being able to view the sport from a more distant position. When I was younger I had a very idealistic notion of what I thought St Mirren was, never really classing the club as a cold hard business. I believed a lot of the bollocks marketing pish about how important the Community was to the club. Looking back it was incredibly naive of me. However the way I view the CIC is that it's more than just a nod in the right direction. It's a genuine attempt at putting the club at the heart of the community, in the way it always should have been. And to me the more that happens across football the better for everyone. I maintain that the success of any CIC will be completely dependant on the quality of those elected and I've got concerns in that regard in that many of the people who are on this forum, who will have a vote, took so long to get beyond the discussion of where revenue from the bar was going. As for Motherwell, I think the potential is similar but it depends on how it's approached. Motherwell FC have managed to maintain far closer links with the local community than St Mirren have done over the past 15 years. Some of that may well be accounted for by the fact that fans had to pull together when they were in administration. How it develops will be interesting. St Mirren have the more modern facilities just now, but Motherwell have a large empty Ravenscraig site next door and a local authority that is keen to dump some of it's liabilities. Interesting times ahead but regardless of who is bigger or better I'd like to think we'll finally see a real attempt to get clubs and players back working in their local communities. Very impressed with that reply. First green dot i have sent but hey i'm new on here. I do not want my club to be relegated (obvious statment) and i want teams like Motherwell to succeed in the SPL albeit below the saints. As Dunfermline are now in the spl and will carry a good home and away support there are no turkeys left. St Mirren will have the bottom budget in the league next season and i do fear the situation if the cic is on its first season with a relegated club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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