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Who The Fcuk is Richard Atkinson ? GLS Is a Fan , Who was Project Manager at GHR ? Chancer was no where to be seen ? £50 k for a Club , I Believe GLS has put morei into the kitty Than REA ? CIC is dead M8 ! bye1.gif

Richard Atkinson is not putting in £50k in order to get to own SMFC in return for his £50k. I wasn't at the meeting tonight due to be at a work conference but from the live feeds tonight, RA has taken 2 years out of his work at Maxi to spend time putting the CIC bid together, so that is a sacrifice he has made for the good of the club. People have been moaning that he hasn't put a penny in to the club or the CIC, but he's already paid legal fees for the CIC, and is now stumping up £50k from his own pocket which is the same amount of money the fans group SMISA are talking about investing... do you want to knock them too for 'only' stumping up £50k if they vote in favour of being part of the CIC?

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Who The Fcuk is Richard Atkinson ? GLS Is a Fan , Who was Project Manager at GHR ? Chancer was no where to be seen ? £50 k for a Club , I Believe GLS has put morei into the kitty Than REA ? CIC is dead M8 ! bye1.gif

I just don't see why anyone would call Richard a chancer. Just what has he had to gain for all the work he's put in? Sometimes people do things for other reasons than self gain, it's pathetic that some fans can't see that.

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I just don't see why anyone would call Richard a chancer. Just what has he had to gain for all the work he's put in? Sometimes people do things for other reasons than self gain, it's pathetic that some fans can't see that.

Most fans don't Tsu....Just some. It really is quite simple .....Do you believe what he says?.....If yes back it , If not don't. I,m going for £20 per month.

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Maybe it's just me but I thought the Mods might want to start a thread to gauge opinion on the final plan for 10000hrs....ie what kind of support they have and how much more we can help. ........Like I say maybe it's just me.

You can do it, Div can pin it. :)

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The new proposal from 10000 hours is for a Community Interest Company that owns a Industrial and Provident Society...... WTF?

Now if you took the time to read the documents that you post links to you would actually understand what is going on. I suggest you take a wee break from the forum and read some of the documents you refer to and perhaps even spend some time speaking to a couple of the SENs agencies.bangin.gif

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Guest somner9

The whole IPS owned by a CiC is way too complex, however i suspect to hang onto the funding secured perhaps!!! that was necessary rather than to start all over again from scratch. Big Doug's reputation has been built on one simple rule "When you see the tiger (even hidden in the jungle) SHOOT"

Perhaps there is enough visible for the fans to get a shot at now? I'm prepared to look, listen and understand.

On a different note! I'd never thought I'd see so many CiC cult followers announcing my ideas as "The way forward" bootyshake.gifbye1.gif

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The whole IPS owned by a CiC is way too complex, however i suspect to hang onto the funding secured perhaps!!! that was necessary rather than to start all over again from scratch. Big Doug's reputation has been built on one simple rule "When you see the tiger (even hidden in the jungle) SHOOT"

Perhaps there is enough visible for the fans to get a shot at now? I'm prepared to look, listen and understand.

On a different note! I'd never thought I'd see so many CiC cult followers announcing my ideas as "The way forward" bootyshake.gifbye1.gif

Cheezuz? Our Saviour? Iis that you?

No Seriously, if it was you who published the Concept of a co-op, you must be loaded! Why don't you just buy SMFC and save the unworthy Cults a lot of cash my friend?

"You're not the Messiah, you're a very naughty boy!"

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Guest somner9

Some people when presented with a proposal they can neither support, or like take the easy options to either say nowt and back it, or slate it at every opportunity but offer no alternative.

When i opposed 10000 hours multi board, undemocratic version of fan governance! I also put forward a much simpler, more effective, tried and tested since 1844 alternative that 10000 hours have now adopted.

I didn't keep schtum, I protested but offered a genuine alternative that was supported by few, slated by many.

VamboNo5 you tell me is it better to be led in blind faith? or open your eyes, educate yourself, and strive for something better?

st mirren till I die, and then some!

Edited by somner9
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Some people when presented with a proposal they can neither support, or like take the easy options to either say nowt and back it, or slate it at every opportunity but offer no alternative.

When i opposed 10000 hours multi board, undemocratic version of fan governance! I also put forward a much simpler, more effective, tried and tested since 1844 alternative that 10000 hours have now adopted.

I didn't keep schtum, I protested but offered a genuine alternative that was supported by few, slated by many.

VamboNo5 you tell me is it better to be led in blind faith? or open your eyes, educate yourself, and strive for something better?

st mirren till I die, and then some!

So can we assume you do now support the 10000Hours bid ?

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Guest somner9

So can we assume you do now support the 10000Hours bid ?

The devil is as always in the detail, and i would need to see that first before making my decision. However this model is light years more democratic than the ill fated one.

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This is why you should have gone to the meeting.

Div,

Any chance of a B & W army journalistic piece on the ins and outs of last night?

I couldn't make the meeting and ive been trying to decipher the ins and outs on the various threads but im getting lost in the child like uninformed debate that is both the strength and downfall of free speech.

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Some people when presented with a proposal they can neither support, or like take the easy options to either say nowt and back it, or slate it at every opportunity but offer no alternative.

When i opposed 10000 hours multi board, undemocratic version of fan governance! I also put forward a much simpler, more effective, tried and tested since 1844 alternative that 10000 hours have now adopted.

I didn't keep schtum, I protested but offered a genuine alternative that was supported by few, slated by many.

VamboNo5 you tell me is it better to be led in blind faith? or open your eyes, educate yourself, and strive for something better?

st mirren till I die, and then some!

SomnerNo9

I could quote you... "don't hold your breath"...

But I wouldn't be so trite.

Blind Faith? I can assure you - unlike some - I read and read and educated myself as to the whole CIC proposal and seen it as a way the fans could get some real representation within our club and safeguard its future.

It was the ONLY serious proposal on the table. Amongst a helluva lot of unwarranted mudslinging towards REA, Co-ops were mentioned on forums as alternatives and not just by yourself.

No co-op proposal was put on the table, until 10Khr's did last night. They deserve much credit for that.

I hope now that all interested in the future of our Club will digest the details when published, get involved if they can.

st mirren till I die, and then some too!

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Guest somner9

SomnerNo9

I could quote you... "don't hold your breath"...

But I wouldn't be so trite.

er you just were, you quoted it!

Blind Faith? I can assure you - unlike some - I read and read and educated myself as to the whole CIC proposal and seen it as a way the fans could get some real representation within our club and safeguard its future.

It was the ONLY serious proposal on the table. Amongst a helluva lot of unwarranted mudslinging towards REA, Co-ops were mentioned on forums as alternatives and not just by yourself.

HotDiggity Dawg whistling.gif

No co-op proposal was put on the table, until 10Khr's did last night. They deserve much credit for that.

yes they mentioned me in dispatches

I hope now that all interested in the future of our Club will digest the details when published, get involved if they can.

st mirren till I die, and then some too!

Jumble the words up, you think I played a blinder convincing, arguing, not followling blindly, pushing for a REAL fan goverened option, and ta-ra there it is.

If Carlsberg did geniusesbye1.gif

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Div,

Any chance of a B & W army journalistic piece on the ins and outs of last night?

I couldn't make the meeting and ive been trying to decipher the ins and outs on the various threads but im getting lost in the child like uninformed debate that is both the strength and downfall of free speech.

Jim, the in and out is pretty simple. There's a choice for everyone involved.

1. You want co-operative fan ownership of the club

2. You don't want co-operative fan ownership of the club.

There's no definitive right or wrong answer. Option 1 means that as many people as possible will have to complete Direct Debit form and commit to paying £10 per month, at least for a bit. In return they will eventually be bothered with some sort of nomination process and a ballot to elect members onto the board and they'll occasionally be asked for their opinion on some matters within the club. Option 2 means that you carry on as before with the surety that there is a consortium looking to sell a controlling stake in the club and that they alone will make the decision on who they sell to whether that's a billionaire benefactor or someone who's going to have to put the club into debt to pay for the takeover.

It's perfectly legitimate to not like the IPS model or to have a preferred option but the fact is there is only one fan ownership model on the table right now so you either back it or you don't.

The twitter feed is here read it from the bottom up.

Edited by Stuart Dickson
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Sigh - and I just slaved through the www morass to find bud77's post... just too late...

(Here to... er... slowly, impotently, help... :( )

You'll need to read it from the bottom up

10000hourslive Thank you and good night ! 2 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Battery about to run out now, and meeting coming to a close. I hope you have found it informative and it made some sense ! 3 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Sorry, not a target, more a figure that Richard thinks is realistic. 5 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive 600 of the 800 pledgers have sent in their direct debit. Richard aiming to reach a target of half the number of season ticket holders (1250) 8 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Communication will be key and the aim is to be much improved on what we did before. Social media, websites, press etc.. 9 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Meeting getting ready to wrap up. 9 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive As soon as we are comfortable that we have sufficient interest we will engage with the selling consortium with an offer. 10 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive All information will be published to the 10000Hours site tomorrow, please go away and review asap. We are in a competitive situation. 11 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive The SMiSA group will organise a members meeting to discuss and ratify their next steps. 11 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive The SMiSA commitment will be tweaked and reviewed but Richard hoping that SMiSA will still support fan governance in the IPS based CIC. 12 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive The IPS can take one off payments or monthly payments. 13 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive This was already the case with the original funding model of the CIC. 13 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Richard undertaking to put £50K of personal investment into the pot. 14 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive this hasn't got any further to date. 16 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Door remains open for other parties to get involved with 10000Hours to help buy the club. Attempt was made to engage with other bidders but 17 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Only one person has withdrawn their direct debit. 21 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Assumption will be made that those who have returned direct debits will remain interested. If that is not the case please contact 10000Hours 21 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive It may also be possible for fans within the 48% to exchange their shares in return for equity in 10000Hours. 22 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive 10000Hours hope to get Gordon to contribute to the IPS based CIC. 24 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Question from the floor about Gordon Scott, who has tried to buy the club. He has since invested his money into property. 24 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Richard open to any better ideas. If there is a better model for sustainability of St.Mirren then let's hear it and he will glady step aside 28 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Member inducements of course could also be detrimental to the club and the all important playing budget of the manager. 29 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive It is not possible for 10000Hours to offer inducements to members, at least until they own the football club ! 30 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Stuart Dickson is here tonight, asking about engaging local football teams with the CIC. Who says he is not a St.Mirren fan !? 31 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Yes, and the fans here tonight need to tell 10000Hours what material they need to help persuade fellow fans to join up. 32 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Question; Should it be rebranded to make it simpler to understand ? 35 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Richard looking for help from the council and councillors to get involved too and help champion the fans owning the club. 37 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Parallels being drawn with what is happening at Motherwell. Richard believes they are well on their way to reach their target. 38 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Richard committing to put in a substantial amount of his own money into this too. 39 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive They key issue is that the money we lost from the funding was not repayable for the first five years. It is the phasing that is important. 40 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Richard not saying that the selling consortium would necessarily accept a reduced bid but let's see what we can pull together. 41 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive The message needs to go to St.Mirren fans worldwide. 43 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Richard agreeing that it is time for him to take a back seat. This is now about St.Mirren fans deciding whether they want to buy the club. 46 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Very small percentage of the support has been involved up to now. 47 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Richard seeking champions to publicise this and get as many St.Mirren supporters involved as possible. 49 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Hoping that the fans understand better what a co-operative is. 50 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Richard at pains to point out that this purchase is not about him, it is about the supporters. 51 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Question about why we didn't go IPS from day one. Richard thought pure CIC was a better model but hindight a wonderful thing. 53 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Show of hands about who generally thinks this is something they are interested in. Maybe 75% of those present raised hands. 56 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Answer; We had commitment from 600 people to pay that amount but it is open for debate, should there be any limit ? 56 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Question; Why is membership set to £10 a month ? 57 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Do you want a successful St.Mirren ? Do you want a say in what happens at your club ? Do you want a better match day experience. 58 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Timelne; Before Christmas we will garner the level of interest and pull this together with the funding agreed and make an offer. 58 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive club going forward. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive There are so many cases of financial strife in the Scottish game. This is a chance to ensure from a position of strength we can protect the about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive This is the time to rally round to make sure the club DOESN'T ever hit financial difficulties again. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive It is a big ask because the club is doing so well but if the club was in trouble the supporters would rally round. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive 3) We need volunteers to take this forward. We need supporters to step forward and champion this and gather further support. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive 2) We need either more members or more contributions from those who have already committed to the cause about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Three parts to the way forward; 1) The team will keep trying to secure additional funding about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Community interest companies only work if the community is interested. That remains true. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive The fans need to decide now if they want to go ahead with this. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive There have been negotiations with the selling consortium about the sale price but we must get into a position to put an offer in. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive We have £1.3m of funding we can use. We have a committed group of fans who were previously interested. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive The club is running well. It is making more money that it did 2 years ago at all levels. Another new sponsor is hoped to come in soon. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Supporters will still be able to stand for election to the football board on a 1 member 1 vote basis. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive These will largely be unchanged. This is all about the supporters owning the football club and being in charge of its direction. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Question now about member benefits. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive No matter how much money you put in, you will only ever have one vote. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive 10000Hours will remain a CIC but will be structured as a co-op. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive There is no grant element left in the remaining funding, it is all repayable debt. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive The elected members board own 52% of the club, thus they control the football club and who sits on the football board. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive New organisation chart up. Elected members board, 1 member 1 vote. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Richard has already committed a sum of personal money to the fund and it will remain in there. He will still have one vote, same as everyone about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive The £2m price can still be met with the existing funding, but the phasing of the repayments now means we need more people up front to commit about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Simplifies the opportunity and allows those who can to contribute more. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Fans can pay whatever they can afford to pay. Under-16s join for free. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive It remains a 1 member 1 vote system but the incentive for paying more is to earn more equity when the CIC meets it's goal. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Once the debt is paid off the members will be repaid in equity in 10000hours community interest company based on their contributions. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Companies and community organisations can now get involved for a much reduced outlay (ie a minimum of £10 per month) about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Minimum price is £10 per month, no maximum level. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Simplified Offering; 1 Category of Member only about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Missing is "Member Economic Participation" ie; Members would have joined 10000Hours but not actually owned anything. This will change. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive 10000Hours fulfils 6 out of 7 of the co-operative requirements. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive A CIC can be a co-operative (IPS). about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Sorry, typo there, one fundamental change. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive So in order to proceed, in order to go ahead, there will be one fund fundamental change. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive The £10K corporate membership excluded many who wanted to get involved. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive There was a massive gap between £10 individual members and £10K corporate members. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Easily beat the 300 individual target. No real way of justifying an individual to contribute more. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Some targets were set too low and some set too high. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive There was too much focus on the 10000hours team making it happen and not the supporters. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive It was a complex deal, it probably wasn't communicated well enough. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Lessons to learn from what we have done so far. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Nobody has ever tried this before ie; The fans are usually the people to be asked to help as a last resort not when things are running well about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Richard now talking about the social benefits that have attracted the funders in the first place and why the remain interested. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Rcihard talking now about "white knights" coming in to throw money at football clubs. It is a nice thought but unsustainable. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Does not think it would be helpful at this current time. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive In this case for some reason, there were external forces at work which caused the condition to fail. Richard not prepared to reveal those. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive They were asked to judge on a "3 year rule" where the organisation must show 3 years worth of good trading. This is usually waived. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Question; Why did the external body kybosh the final fund ? about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Richard got Tony involved in the project to provide some credibility for the fans to believe in it. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Richard has effectively taken 2 years out to pursue this as a "passion" and has removed himself from Maxi on a day to day basis as a result. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Richard will take zero personal gain from this, but was in the right place at the right time to do this. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Question from the floor about Richard and his background. Why do this if you are not a St.Mirren fan. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive The CIC model is aslo about scaling up the community use of the football stadium to improve community relations and generate more revenue about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive That would be detrimental to the running of the football club as that cash would come right out of St.Mirren FC. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive There is a fear that someone else who privately purchased the club would pay themselves a hefty salary to cover the interest payments. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive These are all the key points of the CIC model. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive Any borrowing made to fund the purchase is not secured against the assets of the company. about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

10000hourslive be sold because the CIC owns the majority shareholding and the shares are asset locked.

10000hourslive"]10000hourslive[/url] When a CIC owns something, this case 52% of the shares, the assets are locked. The CIC would not own the stadium but the stadium could not

10000hourslive"]10000hourslive[/url] The CIC presents an opportunity to achieve a seat on the club board regardless of individual wealth.

10000hourslive"]10000hourslive[/url] Unpaid directors. The current directors do an incredible amount of work unpaid for the club. The CIC will not pay directors salaries.

10000hourslive[/url] The CIC Guarantees 100% that the members will be able to stand, elect and run St.Mirren Football Club.

10000hourslive"]10000hourslive[/url] There has been a lot of scepticism about the project which Richard is keen to dispell.

10000hourslive"]10000hourslive[/url] "If you want to do it. We still can"

10000hourslive[/url] Richard still believes the purchase of the majority shareholding is still possible but we need to tweak the setup and ramp up the no of fans

10000hourslive[/url] There was a plan B that was invoked after the funding was unapproved but that plan failed due to "the rights of the minority" ie; The 48%

10000hourslive[/url] Some other funds have been engaged to try and bridge the funding gap but it will take a long time and may or may not succeed.

10000hourslive"]10000hourslive[/url] All the other funders are in place and still in place today and ready and willing to get involved with the purchase plan.

10000hourslive"]10000hourslive[/url] The phasing was important as it allowed the CIC to get established before repayments were required.

10000hourslive[/url] There was £750K involved with this fund. This was phased funding. £175k was in the form of a grant, the rest was repayable with interest.

10000hourslive"]10000hourslive[/url] REA was told on several occasions that the sign off was coming but after a lot of effort to resolve the issue, it was declined.

10000hourslive"]10000hourslive[/url] The final condition was sign off from one agency. This was the condition that failed.

10000hourslive"]10000hourslive[/url] 3) Operational capacity (are enough people involved to make it happen), 4) Diversity and Equality Policy.

0000hourslive"]10000hourslive[/url] The conditions were 1) Evidence of formal relatonship with community partners. 2) Mechanism for measuring social impact.

10000hourslive[/url] One of the funds had conditioned attached to it. These conditions needed to be resolved.

10000hourslive"]10000hourslive[/url] Credit committees for all funders approved full £2m of funding that was required to buy the shares.

10000hourslive[/url] Update - What has happened since we last met..........

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