ck1 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Sorry I couldn’t make last night as I don’t stay in Paisley but I followed the discussion via the tweets and I picked up on this one . “It remains a 1 member 1 vote system but the incentive for paying more is to earn more equity when the CIC meets its goal” Can somebody please explain how this will work after all the debt is paid off. They way I understand it is that if you pay £10 per month for 5 years is £600 over the debt repayment period you would get £600 worth of equity in the club ,And if you put in £50k after the 5 years you will get £50k worth of equity. So after this five year repayment plan is complete is it still 1 member 1 vote system , as somebody with £50k equity is going to want a bigger say than the person with £600 worth. Once again I’m only asking a question and I don’t expect to get slated!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Sorry I couldn’t make last night as I don’t stay in Paisley but I followed the discussion via the tweets and I picked up on this one . “It remains a 1 member 1 vote system but the incentive for paying more is to earn more equity when the CIC meets its goal” Can somebody please explain how this will work after all the debt is paid off. They way I understand it is that if you pay £10 per month for 5 years is £600 over the debt repayment period you would get £600 worth of equity in the club ,And if you put in £50k after the 5 years you will get £50k worth of equity. So after this five year repayment plan is complete is it still 1 member 1 vote system , as somebody with £50k equity is going to want a bigger say than the person with £600 worth. Once again I’m only asking a question and I don’t expect to get slated!! don't know the equity scenario 10000 hours envisage. However if the proposal for an IPS (Co-op) goes ahead then it will be enshrined in the constitution that anyone meeting between the minimum and maximum allowed investment will have one vote, regardless where their investment sits between min and max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 As somner9 says, regardless of how much you put in you would only ever have one vote. It is a key component of the whole co-op model that every member is equal as far as voting is concerned. The equity stake works like this as far as I am aware. 10000Hours buys the majority shareholding in the club, let's say for £2m For arguments sake lets assume all £2m has been borrowed from someone or other. The co-op members, via their one off and/or monthly contributions chip away to pay off the borrowing. Eventually the borrowing, plus interest, is completely paid off. Lets for talking sakes say that they had to raise £2.5m in total to pay it all off plus the interest. The co-op now "owns" an asset (a block of shares) that it has paid £2.5m for. Joe bloggs has put in £50k over the course of the repayment through his company Wee Jimmy has put in £5k over the course Joe Bloggs would receive 2% equity stake in 10000Hours (50000/2500000) Wee Jimmy would receive 0.2% equity stake in 10000Hours (5000/2500000) That equity is in 10000Hours, NOT St.Mirren. The guys above would then be shareholders in 10000Hours. I am unsure if 10000Hours could ever pay dividends to it's own shareholders then if it then started to generate profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fras Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 I'm sure it could in time Div. I've just got £18 worth of vouchers from the Co-Op as my 6 monthly dividend. Unfortunately, they are for what I have been spending my money on, so 'er indoors was less than chuffed to find the vouchers were solely for Stella, Wine and cigs. And I've meant to have quit the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 He He ... and thanks for the explanation Div. I look foward to my 2p half-yearly dividend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 If a co-op owned the CIC I am unsure if 10000Hours could ever pay dividends to it's own shareholders then if it then started to generate profit. If it's still being run as a CIC wouldn't any profits generated be ploughed back into the community or club rather than be paid as dividends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_the_saint Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 If a co-op owned the CIC If it's still being run as a CIC wouldn't any profits generated be ploughed back into the community or club rather than be paid as dividends? It would seem to me that that would be a decision for the CIC members. Or equally, could the option be to automatically re-invest your dividend back into the CIC, thus potentially increasing you stake in the Co-op? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted December 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Thank you all for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktf Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 If a co-op owned the CIC If it's still being run as a CIC wouldn't any profits generated be ploughed back into the community or club rather than be paid as dividends? What you're saying is potentially factually correct and all that is good. I just want to clear up a point. 10000hrs will be a CiC operating or trading as a co-operative. It won't be a co-op owning a CiC or 10000hrs becoming an IPS. It will remain a single company, 10000hrs CiC, which will operate as a co-op. Just wanted to clarify the concept and language used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) If a co-op owned the CIC If it's still being run as a CIC wouldn't any profits generated be ploughed back into the community or club rather than be paid as dividends? from what i read up on cic's only directors or a secretary can take remuneration from the funds (salary/expenses) any money left after paying these salaries has to remain in the cic after that, and it will be a long time before the cic would be in profit - if ever at all Edited December 2, 2011 by buddiecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 from what i read up on cic's only directors or a secretary can take remuneration from the funds (salary/expenses) any money left after paying these salaries has to remain in the cic after that, and it will be a long time before the cic would be in profit - if ever at all A CIC can pay its employees so its not just the directors or secretaries and a CIC can certainly mmbe run for profit. Im not sure about dividends but there are examples of companies who do pay their shareholders. The one that springs to my mind is a wood recycling plant in the borders. If I can find the Powerpoint I should be able to give more precise details Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 A CIC can pay its employees so its not just the directors or secretaries and a CIC can certainly mmbe run for profit. Im not sure about dividends but there are examples of companies who do pay their shareholders. The one that springs to my mind is a wood recycling plant in the borders. If I can find the Powerpoint I should be able to give more precise details it's ok powerpoints rip ma tights, you've answered it for me, although i would have thought that directors/secretaries would be the only employees , what other jobs would be involved ? as for dividends they would not amount to much which is fine as it's the future of the club that matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 it's ok powerpoints rip ma tights, you've answered it for me, although i would have thought that directors/secretaries would be the only employees , what other jobs would be involved ? as for dividends they would not amount to much which is fine as it's the future of the club that matters It's one of the best things about the deal that naebody makes hehaw out the club. Then again if you stand buddiecat and are elected?........then you might get sick of sausage rolls in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) it's ok powerpoints rip ma tights, you've answered it for me, although i would have thought that directors/secretaries would be the only employees , what other jobs would be involved ? as for dividends they would not amount to much which is fine as it's the future of the club that matters Whatever staff you require to do the companies business. For example Broxburn United pay a £20000 per annum to a development officer. Theres a bike riding CIC that employ a number of cycling instructors. The Atlantis employ life guards, coaches, maintenance staff, receptionists etc. Actually I should add that 10000hours presentation from Wednesday night which is online now states that they will deliver "unpaid board members". Maybe Reborn Saint just interpreted that incorrectly. Obviously St Mirren will still presumably pay a Commercial Manager, a General Manager, a team manager, coaches, and players as well as the numerous other staff positions within the club. Edited December 2, 2011 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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