The Referendum Thread

[Guest TPAFKATS]

The clunking fist that is Gordon Brown was at Edinburgh uni yesterday making a speech calling for scottish education to be lost to history and Scotland to have the same education system as the rest of uk.

Could someone explain how this fits into increased powers after a no vote?

[rabuddies]

I have watched STV Glasgow for approximately 12 minutes. I will now definitely be voting "NO".

[oaksoft]

You're hard.

I wonder what side of the debate the intimidating behaviour was coming from there. Were you in a butter advert - "Hey Rotten, get orf my land".

He's lying.

You can be pretty certain he did no such thing.

[oaksoft]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/politics/referendum-news/snp-will-borrow-billions-to-end-austerity-says-swinney.24490040

Interesting read. As the Labour man says where would the oil fund be? Are we using a credit card to put money in a savings account?

OMG quit nicking someone else's patter.

Have you decided to become Darling's bitch by slavishly following and repeating his every word?

The comment doesn't even make sense.

A bit like "best of both worlds".

Edited June 17, 2014 by oaksoft

[Guest TPAFKATS]

The clunking fist that is Gordon Brown was at Edinburgh uni yesterday making a speech calling for scottish education to be lost to history and Scotland to have the same education system as the rest of uk.

Could someone explain how this fits into increased powers after a no vote?

No one explaining this then?

Ok, how about some crowing from the Better Together, No Thanks camp as the latest international political heavyweight holds a press conference with Cameron and tells us he wants us to stay together (kinda). Ladies and Gentlemen the Premier of China Li Keqiang -this wasa surprise to me as he's the leader of such a reforming country that's open to democratic change...

[Stuart Dickson]

A new You Gov poll for the Sun newspaper shows 53% voting No, just 36% voting Yes. The You Gov website hasn't got details of the poll up yet which is probably because The Sun paid for it and they want to sell newspapers but if you were to take each poll as it comes it this would be an astounding swing back to the No campaign by Scots who simply cannot make up their mind. Of course that isn't the case at all. Most Scots are now firmly of a mindset and they aren't wavering any more.

This simply backs up what I've been saying all along. If you take out the ridiculous swings and look at the trends on the polls support for Independence remains flat at around 36% - 38% and support for the Union looks as strong as ever.

[Stuart Dickson]

Now you know that I never called the question ambiguous, let's get to the statement that people were asked to respond to.

" If Scotland becomes independent, Britain’s nuclear weapons submarines should continue to be based here."

If you look at what that actually says (not what you want it to say), it is saying that the submarines should be based here, it doesn't actually say that the nuclear weapons should be based here. "Nuclear weapons" in that statement is describing what type of submarine they are talking about, as compared to conventional weapons. It is a compound adjective and should really be hyphenated to clarify this but it was probably written that way intentionally to be ambiguous. So, it's an ambiguous statement not an ambiguous question.

Of course, you will come back and say that I'm talking shite but that will only go to prove that you definitely don't understand English.

We could rent them Faslane, on the condition that no subs with nukes aboard comes into it (I'm not even sure that they do that at present anyway), and tell them to get the nukes the f**k out of Coulport (because, as I'm sure you're aware, that's where they are kept, not Faslane). Sorted.

ETA clarification - don't want Dorothy nit-picking.

Oh FFS. Me nit picking?!

It's quite clear what the question meant and I'm sure every single respondent knew fine well that they were talking about Trident and keeping the nuclear weapons at Faslane. I seriously doubt that anyone in their right mind would have read that question and assumed that we were talking about keeping empty unarmed submarines

[Stuart Dickson]

No one explaining this then?

Ok, how about some crowing from the Better Together, No Thanks camp as the latest international political heavyweight holds a press conference with Cameron and tells us he wants us to stay together (kinda). Ladies and Gentlemen the Premier of China Li Keqiang -this wasa surprise to me as he's the leader of such a reforming country that's open to democratic change...

Alex Salmond has been courting China for years now thinking somehow that they would be a massive ally and financier of an Independent Scotland. Salmonds also been desperate to court the US in recent years spending loads of money travelling there, staying in expensive hotels and treating any American he can find who is willing to talk to him to dinners, lunches and to all manner of hospitality. If David Cameron has moved to get support of the political leaders of both of those countries then you can bet your last refundable glass bottle that the reason is to show that Salmond's expensive whoring of himself has been fruitless. The electorate knows this of course cause we can all see Salmond is a fanny who's still less popular than Margaret Thatcher in Scotland.

[Stuart Dickson]

OMG quit nicking someone else's patter.

Have you decided to become Darling's bitch by slavishly following and repeating his every word?

The comment doesn't even make sense.

A bit like "best of both worlds".

It was Iain Gray that I was quoting this time - a member of the Scottish Parliaments Finance Committee.

And of course it makes sense. Anyone with any domestic financial ability knows that you do not keep large sums in a savings account when you are paying larger amounts of interest repayments on your outstanding debt. If you are sitting on a large debt Oaksoft, and you've got savings - look it up. Every finance expert tells you the first thing you should do is pay down your debts.

The idea that an Indepedent Scotland should increase borrowing by 3% every year whilst saving money in some oil fund is absolutely absurd.

[oaksoft]

A new You Gov poll for the Sun newspaper shows 53% voting No, just 36% voting Yes. The You Gov website hasn't got details of the poll up yet which is probably because The Sun paid for it and they want to sell newspapers but if you were to take each poll as it comes it this would be an astounding swing back to the No campaign by Scots who simply cannot make up their mind. Of course that isn't the case at all. Most Scots are now firmly of a mindset and they aren't wavering any more.

This simply backs up what I've been saying all along. If you take out the ridiculous swings and look at the trends on the polls support for Independence remains flat at around 36% - 38% and support for the Union looks as strong as ever.

Astounding swing?

Their last poll was 51% Yes and 37% No.

[oaksoft]

And of course it makes sense. Anyone with any domestic financial ability knows that you do not keep large sums in a savings account when you are paying larger amounts of interest repayments on your outstanding debt. If you are sitting on a large debt Oaksoft, and you've got savings - look it up. Every finance expert tells you the first thing you should do is pay down your debts.

Actually as an aside that isn't always the best thing to do.

Say you had £50k in the bank and a £50k mortgage.

Now you'd say the best thing would be to pay off the mortgage right?

Maybe. So you do that and your bank account is now £0.

You now don't have a mortgage.

Then tomorrow you lose your job.

You now have no mortgage but you also have no food.

A better optioin MIGHT be to keep the £50k savings as a safety buffer and accept that the price of that safety and security is that it will cost you the monthly repayments on your mortgage.

Not everything, unlike the Saints team we both support, is black and white.

[salmonbuddie]

The electorate knows this of course cause we can all see Salmond is a fanny who's still less popular than Margaret Thatcher in Scotland.

This has got to be the most inspired/fatuous (I can't decide which) conclusion ever drawn from sets of figures measured 20-30 years apart......

[Bloomsbury Bud]

A new You Gov poll for the Sun newspaper shows 53% voting No, just 36% voting Yes. The You Gov website hasn't got details of the poll up yet which is probably because The Sun paid for it and they want to sell newspapers but if you were to take each poll as it comes it this would be an astounding swing back to the No campaign by Scots who simply cannot make up their mind. Of course that isn't the case at all. Most Scots are now firmly of a mindset and they aren't wavering any more.

This simply backs up what I've been saying all along. If you take out the ridiculous swings and look at the trends on the polls support for Independence remains flat at around 36% - 38% and support for the Union looks as strong as ever.

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014

[thepaisleypanda]

In other news I had a visit today from the Natsi SS today. An army of them going door to door in an intimidating attempt to identify those who won't vote Yes in September referendum. I tolerated their propaganda pish for about 30 seconds before telling the lying f**ker to get off my property and go do one. I now fully expect that I most likely head the local list for export to the first Natsi death camps in the unlikely event of a Yes vote.

You posted this at 15.16!

Now, from my experience, it is highly unlikely that ANY team (Yes or NO) would be "knocking doors" at 3pm! T-time or weekends, yes by all means. A leaflet through the door? Quite possibly - activists can get allocated a street & do it when they wish.

To suggest you had an "army" intimidating you in the daytime I very much doubt!

Is Dicko getting caught out again?

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I'm sure the signing of deals by uk plc worth £14 billion to China on the same day that their premier made his intervention is entirely coincidental.

The next favour will be HS2.

As for Gordon Brown's education comments, I guess better together, no thanks can't comment on it as they are still waiting on our ever compliant mainstream media reporting it.

[thepaisleypanda]

you can start anytime you like - the point is that most groups feel it is futile to go "on the doors" mid-afternoon.

Leaflet drops or even shopping centres for sure, but most folk are out during the day, or, if at home, are unlikely to answer the door to unexpected callers. It is bad enough at weekends - even when you hear the telly on!!

[Stuart Dickson]

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014

Thanks for that. That's a good link. It does prove the point that the Yes Campaign hasn't made much ground at all. It's also interesting to see that the "headline grabbing" polls that show the Yes Campaign as "neck and neck" seem to have been conducted for the SNP, Yes Scotland or for Wings Over Scotland.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Stuart Dickson

[Happy Buddie]

No one explaining this then?

Ok, how about some crowing from the Better Together, No Thanks camp as the latest international political heavyweight holds a press conference with Cameron and tells us he wants us to stay together (kinda). Ladies and Gentlemen the Premier of China Li Keqiang -this wasa surprise to me as he's the leader of such a reforming country that's open to democratic change...

I invited Hilary Clinton to have a cup of tea with me, I bought the tea in a duty-free shop near the docks in Boston, Massachusetts, I don't think she got the irony.

[billyg]

NS is to make a statement on saving Prestwick Airport today. This is the one serious chink in the SNP "yes" armour imo. Throwing taxpayers money at a dead duck to save face before the vote is a huge mistake.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Interesting to see what they come up with billy. It's sometimes a choice between throwing money at it or paying the benefits costs to the staff that are unemployed?

[Stuart Dickson]

Actually as an aside that isn't always the best thing to do.

Say you had £50k in the bank and a £50k mortgage.

Now you'd say the best thing would be to pay off the mortgage right?

Maybe. So you do that and your bank account is now £0.

You now don't have a mortgage.

Then tomorrow you lose your job.

You now have no mortgage but you also have no food.

A better optioin MIGHT be to keep the £50k savings as a safety buffer and accept that the price of that safety and security is that it will cost you the monthly repayments on your mortgage.

Not everything, unlike the Saints team we both support, is black and white.

I'd never have gotten to that situation Oaksoft. Each £10,000 of savings did become an annual overpayment into my mortgage until the debt was completely repaid. The logic is simple. Putting that money into a savings account where it will accrue less than 1% interest while you pay 3% interest on your mortgage means that even if you are completely disciplined in how you manage your money, you are eventually going to run out of cash having failed to secure the roof over your head. The roof over your head is your safety and security and having paid off your debts your sole focus now would be to learn how to live within your new household income having removed the temptation to draw down your savings so you can kid on that your income hasn't changed for a wee while.

Isn't it funny though that I would prefer to be in the black like your team, but you would prefer to stay in the red like my team.

[Stuart Dickson]

NS is to make a statement on saving Prestwick Airport today. This is the one serious chink in the SNP "yes" armour imo. Throwing taxpayers money at a dead duck to save face before the vote is a huge mistake.

Have the Scottish Government not already bought it Billy? I thought we were already throwing taxpayers money at it.

[thepaisleypanda]

You posted this at 15.16!

Now, from my experience, it is highly unlikely that ANY team (Yes or NO) would be "knocking doors" at 3pm! T-time or weekends, yes by all means. A leaflet through the door? Quite possibly - activists can get allocated a street & do it when they wish.

To suggest you had an "army" intimidating you in the daytime I very much doubt!

Is Dicko getting caught out again?

Still no admission / denial from dicko?

[Stuart Dickson]

Still no admission / denial from dicko?

What do you want me to say? I know they came round the estate yesterday at 2pm ish. I know that there is a Labour bus on the main street currently and my son reckons they'll be coming round the doors too. Let's hope they aren't as mob handed as the SNP hit squad yesterday

[thepaisleypanda]

for a start a "YES" squad isn't an SNP squad.

If what you say is true though - glad to see they were "mob-handed" - shows the strength of footsoldiers that the YES teams have compared to handful of councillors / MSPs at a photo opportunity on a hired bus!

You still have to justify your claim of "intimidation" though - would be keen to know how that came about. Appropriate warnings can also be issued.