The Referendum Thread

[E=Mc2]

I've just finished watching it. I thought Darling looked flustered throughout. Salmond took the debate IMO, but it wasn't a good win for him either. His constant interruptions after asking a question very quickly became annoying, his lies - and he told some real whoppers tonight - will be easily disassembled again over the coming days, and who the f**k told him that when he was asked a question from the audience that the best way to answer it would be to go for a wee walk first - that looked utterly ridiculous.

If the two were boxers I would say Darling took it over the two rounds on points. He won the first one by a bigger margin than Salmond did the second one but regardless of how the judges see it, there was no big knock out punch landed.

I did enjoy his wee walks. Pure theatre.

Alex's performance was good marketing and presentation. Mandelson would have been proud of him.

[Stuart Dickson]

Gotta admit, I might have switched over to Liverpool v Man City at points, but watched most of it. Salmond won it, crushed Darling at the start and was prepared on the currency answer which left Darling flustered.

The middle cross examining was too shouty so got bored of that.

Don't think we learned much new and not sure it will impact on the polls.

Yep, I'd agree with that. The currency answer wasn't that strong, but I don't think Darling knew where to go after that. It was a strange tactic from Darling to go back in again on the economy issue anyway. It was obvious Salmond was going to have been better prepared on that one issue. Darling should have gone after Salmond much more strongly on the oil revenue figures. Darling is more than capable of holding his own talking figures, whilst any Salmond come back could have been dismissed simply by quoting the size of the deficit in Scotland last year. Poor tactics, and it probably cost Darling an outright win. However Salmond hasn't scored anything like a big enough win to turn the opinion polls around

[Stuart Dickson]

If we keep the pound I assume we would have to keep the same interest rates at the rest of the new UK.

Would it not have to work that way?

If they set the rate at say 3% then we couldn't offer less as no one would invest for a lesser return on the same currency.

And if we offered more we would need to use up our reserves to service the greater interest given as no one would invest with the rest of the UK when we are guaranteeing a greater return?

Not necessarily. Mark Carney has been working on a different way to control housing inflation in area's where prices are rising more quickly and provide more government support to area's where house prices are stagnant. That would probably still happen post the referendum regardless of the outcome of course, but Scotland would miss out on UK government support as a result - and ofcourse the Bank of England would no longer have an obligation to consider Scotland in any of it's decision making.

[Stuart Dickson]

FFS, you really don't know what you are talking about. In Scotland things get sub-contracted when the NHS doesn't have the resources to deal with it. In England the NHS has to bid against the likes of BUPA to provide the services in the first place. If you can't see the difference in that then just f**k off and don't get involved in adult conversations.

That's not true. I could cite loads of examples of the NHS in Scotland using private companies on a cost basis because it's cheaper than the NHS can do it for. I've no issue with this practice by the way - and the Scottish Government is very adept as using it. I'll hold the examples and let you continue to make a fool of yourself though. Please do carry on.

[Stuart Dickson]

He tried to make it sound like it's not a good way for a country to operate when, in reality, it just means that you have to be a bit more careful, which isn't really a bad thing when you look at the mess lax regulations got the UK into.

Just be more careful - oh OK then.

What a load of shite. For a start it means you'll have huge problems when it comes to borrowing money in the international banking markets. That's fine so long as you have cash reserves and you're good at living within budget constraints, but the Scottish Government ran up a £6Bn budget deficit this year alone, and in a country that would be so heavily reliant on oil prices, perhaps you can tell me how pensions and welfare payments would be made, particularly in the early years, if oil revenues continue to fall.

[Stuart Dickson]

I did enjoy his wee walks. Pure theatre.

Alex's performance was good marketing and presentation. Mandelson would have been proud of him.

Yet he looked sweaty, twitchy, and the walk was one of the most awkward an unnatural things I've seen on stage since Wildcat ran "The Celtic Story"

[E=Mc2]

Not necessarily. Mark Carney has been working on a different way to control housing inflation in area's where prices are rising more quickly and provide more government support to area's where house prices are stagnant. That would probably still happen post the referendum regardless of the outcome of course, but Scotland would miss out on UK government support as a result - and ofcourse the Bank of England would no longer have an obligation to consider Scotland in any of it's decision making.

I'm not concerned about mortgage rates.

If say I had money in the Dunfermline Building Society and the Skipton was offering a greater rate then my pound would flow south, and I assume the reverse would be true for any pounds south of the border. So I assume that an independent Scotland would need to shadow the UK interest rate if we kept the pound. I'm sure the rest of the UK wouldn't look to us for guidance on the interest rate. If we kept the pound I expect there could be no barriers to money moving within the "Pound Zone", so anyone could keep their money in a rest of the UK bank. Who would I pay tax to on money earned in what would be a foreign bank?

[Stuart Dickson]

I'm not concerned about mortgage rates.

If say I had money in the Dunfermline Building Society and the Skipton was offering a greater rate then my pound would flow south, and I assume the reverse would be true for any pounds south of the border. So I assume that an independent Scotland would need to shadow the UK interest rate if we kept the pound. I'm sure the rest of the UK wouldn't look to us for guidance on the interest rate. If we kept the pound I expect there could be no barriers to money moving within the "Pound Zone", so anyone could keep their money in a rest of the UK bank. Who would I pay tax to on money earned in what would be a foreign bank?

I didn't mention mortgage rates. Quite the opposite.

Interest rates have traditionally been one of the economic levers being used to control inflation. There's been a number of articles in the press in recent months, however, that shows that this recovery is different and that interest rates might not be the best way to control inflation any more. Mark Carney has been reportedly looking at different means to control house price inflation in area's like London where prices are buoyant, without damaging house sales in weaker markets like in the North East of England or in large parts of Scotland. There's been a number of proposals mooted with a range of options like imposing a tax on housing sales where markets are booming, and using the money raised to put into area's to support schemes where the housing market is stagnant.

As for your point on rates - I agree with your point to an extent. Certainly many people will be happy to deposit savings into bank accounts with the highest interest rates, however those potentially higher interest rates in a Scottish Bank, would also have to offset concerns that many would have about the fact that without a lender of last resort there would be no way to guarantee those deposits.

[faraway saint]

Roll on September 19th, put an end to all this shite.

[saintnextlifetime]

Natsi's!!!???

That moniker helps nobody. It isn't big and it isn't clever. Think the only ones looking to keep weapons of mass destruction on the Clyde are the No campaign.

Back to sleep, Laybore.

Indeed to support the Union is to agree with imperialism , illegal wars and WMD's . All morally wrong of course as none ofwhich have any place in the modern world . You just can't use powerful weapons like Trident on a planet this size . .

[saintnextlifetime]

I'm not concerned about mortgage rates.

If say I had money in the Dunfermline Building Society and the Skipton was offering a greater rate then my pound would flow south, and I assume the reverse would be true for any pounds south of the border. So I assume that an independent Scotland would need to shadow the UK interest rate if we kept the pound. I'm sure the rest of the UK wouldn't look to us for guidance on the interest rate. If we kept the pound I expect there could be no barriers to money moving within the "Pound Zone", so anyone could keep their money in a rest of the UK bank. Who would I pay tax to on money earned in what would be a foreign bank?

How do think the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands operate. .

[Wrong Planet]

Gotta admit, I might have switched over to Liverpool v Man City at points, but watched most of it. Salmond won it, crushed Darling at the start and was prepared on the currency answer which left Darling flustered.

The middle cross examining was too shouty so got bored of that.

Don't think we learned much new and not sure it will impact on the polls.

I'd echo that final statement word for word. In fact, I think it equally applies to both debates. Darling stronger in the first, but nothing of note, ditto for Salmond last night. I heard one observer this morning stating that we knew what the tennis ball looked like before the debates, the two protagonists thrashed it back and forward live on telly, and we are still left with the same tennis ball.

I genuinely don't think one single big ticket item has been affected one way or another by the live debates, and for better or worse I'm kinda saddened by that. In the main just the usual political twattery and grand standing. Will be interesting to see the next official Referendum opinion poll, be it Survation, Panelbase, ICM, You-Gov or whomever. I'd personally be surprised if there has been much movement one way or another.

[Stuart Dickson]

Indeed to support the Union is to agree with imperialism , illegal wars and WMD's . All morally wrong of course as none ofwhich have any place in the modern world . You just can't use powerful weapons like Trident on a planet this size . .

You clearly weren't listening to Alex Salmond last night. Even in the event of a 100% vote for Independence on the 18th of September, Scotland will continue to host Trident, and nuclear warheads until 2020 at the very earliest and probably no later than 2025. Why? Well think about it. If Salmond gets Independence he'd want his one term as "El President" and then he can leave the issue of replacing all the lost jobs to someone else.

[Stuart Dickson]

As one of my Facebook friends pointed out this morning we did learn something new last night.

Alex Salmond accused Alastair Darling of being both an idiot and a hypocrite and then offered him a job in the new Scottish Government. I guess we now know the job description for a politician in this "new Scotland"

Edited August 26, 2014 by Stuart Dickson

[Phil McCracken]

The ignorance of the public is quite alarming

during the discussion on the nhs an audience member accused darling of privatising the post office

1. The post office hasn't been privatised. Its still 100% in public ownership

2. I assume he thought he was thinking about royal mail which has been privatised by the current gov not darlings

[E=Mc2]

How do think the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands operate. .

Are they 100% independent?

Is the relationship we are looking for with the rest of the UK going to be like the relationship these islands have?

Having been in the Isle of Man recently I found that my mobile phone unlimited minutes weren't included and when I have phoned the Isle of Man from my mobile whilst in Scotland those minutes weren't inclusive.

If all my outgoing calls, and incoming calls, from outwith Scotland were to become like calls in other European countries then I am going to be paying one huge mobile phone bill.

When do I get an answer to this simple question?

[red&blackcampbell]

My one and only contribution. I will be voting YES mainly because every second or third term, Scotland is governed by a party it did not elect. Also, I find Trident simply indefensible.

[Edinbuddie]

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Stuart Dickson. View it anyway?

I take it from the number of these on here that someone's just a bit more worried after last night!?

[2becks]

Are they 100% independent?

Is the relationship we are looking for with the rest of the UK going to be like the relationship these islands have?

Having been in the Isle of Man recently I found that my mobile phone unlimited minutes weren't included and when I have phoned the Isle of Man from my mobile whilst in Scotland those minutes weren't inclusive.

If all my outgoing calls, and incoming calls, from outwith Scotland were to become like calls in other European countries then I am going to be paying one huge mobile phone bill.

When do I get an answer to this simple question?

The simple answer is that it will be like calling other European countries. IOM is not a European country, it's not in the EU so charges there are not governed by the EU. How much calling other European countries will cost will obviously come down to market forces.

[davidg]

The ignorance of the public is quite alarming

during the discussion on the nhs an audience member accused darling of privatising the post office

1. The post office hasn't been privatised. Its still 100% in public ownership

2. I assume he thought he was thinking about royal mail which has been privatised by the current gov not darlings

I'm sure he said "Will you" and Darling thought he said "did you"...????

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Salmond didn't offer darling a job in the new scottish government.

[E=Mc2]

The simple answer is that it will be like calling other European countries. IOM is not a European country, it's not in the EU so charges there are not governed by the EU. How much calling other European countries will cost will obviously come down to market forces.

I've just checked and in Europe (including Channel Islands and Ireland) it's 18.8p outgoing and 4.9p incoming and I could buy unlimited calls and texts for an extra £2 per day.

Minimum, at the moment, of £730 per year onto my mobile phone bill.

And the cost of data usage in Europe is £12 per 200mb for 7 days. I use my phone for tethering data to my iPad and I would need to consider that too.

I expect the various telecom companies will bring out deals if we go independent, but I would like an answer now as at the moment I will effectively be paying an extra £730 for unlimited calls and texts to customers in England and Northern Ireland, excluding any data I might use whilst I'm out of Scotland.

Should I vote yes on the basis that I can trust the various mobile companies to look favourably on me as a Scottish mobile user who has to make calls to other countries?

[flyingscot]

Are they 100% independent?

Is the relationship we are looking for with the rest of the UK going to be like the relationship these islands have?

Having been in the Isle of Man recently I found that my mobile phone unlimited minutes weren't included and when I have phoned the Isle of Man from my mobile whilst in Scotland those minutes weren't inclusive.

If all my outgoing calls, and incoming calls, from outwith Scotland were to become like calls in other European countries then I am going to be paying one huge mobile phone bill.

When do I get an answer to this simple question?

Some operators include IOM (or at least did out of minutes) others don't.

However it would be a technical challenge to start charging based on England and Scotland. IOM is simple, it has 1 dialling code (01624) and 3 mobile number ranges (07 then a 5/6/9 then 24). So the operators know if it is an IOM number.

However current mobile numbers in the UK were given to mobile operators in banks. For example the next number to your own could be some one in London, the next someone in Inverness and so on. It would be difficult for the operator to start charging beyond if they simply looked at what mast they were on. That would cause so many issues....

[Stuart Dickson]

The simple answer is that it will be like calling other European countries. IOM is not a European country, it's not in the EU so charges there are not governed by the EU. How much calling other European countries will cost will obviously come down to market forces.

Hold on though.....as we all know Scotland would need to negotiate it's position within the EU and it's by no means certain that Scotland would be granted EU Membership

[Stuart Dickson]

Salmond didn't offer darling a job in the new scottish government.

Oh yes he did. He said that he would be happy to work with Darling post referendum.