The Referendum Thread

[iTony]

You two clowns are worse than Darling and Salmond. Think I'll create a sub-forum exclusively for the pair of you.

That sounds like a great idea. I look forward to that.

[iTony]

Again, this.

Still incapable of coming up with your own patter then?

[faraway saint]

I'm not sure why but you seem obsessed with my Mother's culinary talents. I hate to spoil you getting your jollies but she's in a hospice just now not very well but you crack on Faraway Saint as that's what you do best...

Boo hoo............................I'm sure she's very proud her sons a madman.

I'm sorry, you do know no one believes a fcuking word you say?

[saintnextlifetime]

No, it wasn't sarcasm at all. I'm genuinely changing my mind to voting "yes" after reading FTOF's story post about his work colleague.

[faraway saint]

You two clowns are worse than Darling and Salmond. Think I'll create a sub-forum exclusively for the pair of you.

While you're at it, look up the "How to be a moderator" page and see how that goes.

[iTony]

Boo hoo............................I'm sure she's very proud her sons a madman.

I'm sorry, you do know no one believes a fcuking word you say?

That's nice. An ill woman and all you can do is laugh and mock. Thanks for that.

[faraway saint]

That's nice. An ill woman and all you can do is laugh and mock. Thanks for that.

You reap what you sow................................think on loony tunes.

PS You really need to stop making stuff up.

[iTony]

You reap what you sow................................think on loony tunes.

PS You really need to stop making stuff up.

You really are an idiot. You're accusing me of making up things about members of my Family being ill? How very dare you.

[faraway saint]

You really are an idiot. You're accusing me of making up things about members of my Family being ill? How very dare you.

Oh, I'm scared...............................should I be worried or just come to the conclusion you're as mad as a box of frogs?

Take a guess.

[iTony]

Oh, I'm scared...............................should I be worried or just come to the conclusion you're as mad as a box of frogs?

Take a guess.

It's a shame that you don't have proof that I'm making it up isn't it? It just goes to show how low you really are.

[iTony]

Don't worry Faraway Saint, I'll not hit the report button the way you do all the time asking posts to be deleted. I'd much prefer that your posts stay to show everyone the type of individual you really are.

[faraway saint]

It's a shame that you don't have proof that I'm making it up isn't it? It just goes to show how low you really are.

Run along, nobody likes you, and you're a blowhard, can smell the shit from here, even your family know you're a bit of a loony.

[flyingscot]

Is anyone able to answer my question yet?

financial services is 8% of the Scottish economy. Do we really want to risk losing it?

Hargreaves lansdown believe that Scottish independence will lead to lower investment returns due to increased costs from 2 regulatory and taxation regimes

as slatifastbest or whatever pointed out, he believes people will do as they have always done and go where they get the highest returns

How much is truly Scottish or simply based here? I'd suspect the majority of RBS isn't here.

Indeed Iceland's experience is that a reduction in financial services can be a good thing, not that I'm advocating Iceland as a great experience.

[faraway saint]

Don't worry Faraway Saint, I'll not hit the report button the way you do all the time asking posts to be deleted. I'd much prefer that your posts stay to show everyone the type of individual you really are.

Banned more times than Jim Goodwin.....................says a lot, eh?

Everyday must be a struggle, coping with the normality of day to day life without getting a boot in the baws.

[saintnextlifetime]

How much is truly Scottish or simply based here? I'd suspect the majority of RBS isn't here.

Indeed Iceland's experience is that a reduction in financial services can be a good thing, not that I'm advocating Iceland as a great experience.

Indeed. .

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/independent-scotland-could-be-aaa-rated-standard-poors/

[Stuart Dickson]

Indeed. .

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/independent-scotland-could-be-aaa-rated-standard-poors/

Erm that was long before Psycho Salmond decided Scotland would start life with a default.

[EastBuddie]

You can't default on a debt that isn't yours. If rUK wants to keep the assets then they keep the liabilities.

[salmonbuddie]

Still incapable of coming up with your own patter then?

You're right, I should , shouldn't I?

As Slarti keeps saying, you're no good at this trolling lark, are you?

[zurich_allan]

You can't default on a debt that isn't yours. If rUK wants to keep the assets then they keep the liabilities.

I've heard this so many times, and legally / technically it is true. However I don't think that anybody should use it as a justification.

The rationale is very simple:

BOTH Scotland and England (as well as rUK) accumulated the debt AT THE TIME.

rUK would only be taking the assets from, say, 2017 onward.

SO regardless of legalities, technicalities, Scotland should pay the debt it partly accumulated TO THAT POINT, when it DID have use of those assets.

Beyond that point, it should be responsible for NOTHING more in terms of debt.

Aside from it being a technicality, there is NO justification to deviate from the above, hence a lot of countries would likely see beyond the technicality and be wary of lending to a country that has de facto defaulted on its debt.

[Wrong Planet]

This threads going to the dogs. Anyone fancy clearing the stage, and shining the spotlight brightly and exclusively on the Currency issue?

From day 1 the Better Together position has been clear, no currency union with an independent Scotland.
From day 1 the SNP position has been clear, they want to retain currency union despite the pound sterling belonging to the union, with no willingness to discuss a Plan B.

As we have witnessed in recent weeks the SNP have conceded their own goal with regard to their unwillingness to discuss Plan B, and instead have now admitted it would be one of various flavors of Sterlingisation. Some say it could work, others point to the glaring holes in terms of no central bank, no lender of last resort, phucked all ends up if there is a 'run' on cash ie. we all take out money out of Scottish 'banks' and put it elsewhere. Classic theory meets reality, we can't know until it happens. As I've stated, I personally would move what money I have to banks outside an inde Scotland.

On a positive we at last have clarity from the SNP. They are sticking with their Plan A, despite this having been ruled out by every other major political party (Labour, Lib Dems, Conservatives) in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and England. They have declared their Plan B, the bag of rats and risks that is Sterlingisation. Just last night Johann Lamont, Scottish Labour Leader stated "I could not possibly conceive that anyone who was serious about protecting public services in Scotland would want to have sterlingisation."

Critically though, we now have absolute clarity from the SNP, via both Alex Salmond and John Swinney, that if an independent Scotland is not allowed it's Plan A, an independent Scotland will default on it share of the Unions debt.

Ladies a gentlemen, I give you the Scottish National Party. Flying in the face of every other major Political Party in the country, now throwing threats around like a playground bully because it can't get what it has been told, from day 1 of the debate, that it can't get!

Such threats have serious repercussions for us and our country. As Charles Kennedy, former Lib Dem leader, said last night, if an inde Scotland did not shoulder it's share of the debt "the international markets would have you for breakfast lunch and dinner".

We have a Scottish Parliament, we are undoubtedly moving towards Devolution and all the benefits this brings in terms of controlling our own destiny while enjoying the benefits of remaining part of the union with Wales, Northern Ireland, and England. Devolution equally offers NO issues whatsoever in terms of remaining part of Nato, European Union, Currency etc.

If you are a Labour voter your parties leader is urging you to vote No. If you are a Lib Dem voter your parties leader is urging you to vote No. We are now seeing the true face of the SNP, power hungry marginalist bullies determined to get their way regardless of the consequences for the good people of Scotland.

Vote No, Devolution will follow, sorted.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Wrong Planet

[RickMcD]

This threads going to the dogs. Anyone fancy clearing the stage, and shining the spotlight brightly and exclusively on the Currency issue?

From day 1 the Better Together position has been clear, no currency union with an independent Scotland.

From day 1 the SNP position has been clear, they want to retain currency union despite the pound sterling belonging to the union, with no willingness to discuss a Plan B.

As we have witnessed in recent weeks the SNP have conceded their own goal with regard to their unwillingness to discuss Plan B, and instead have now admitted it would be one of various flavors of Sterlingisation. Some say it could work, others point to the glaring holes in terms of no central bank, no lender of last resort, phucked all ends up if there is a 'run' on cash ie. we all take out money out of Scottish 'banks' and put it elsewhere. Classic theory meets reality, we can't know until it happens. As I've stated, I personally would move what money I have to banks outside an inde Scotland.

On a positive we at last have clarity from the SNP. They are sticking with their Plan A, despite this having been ruled out by every other major political party (Labour, Lib Dems, Conservatives) in Wales, Northern Ireland, and England. They have declared their Plan B, the bag of rats and risks that is Sterlingisation. Just last night Johann Lamont, Scottish Labour Leader stated "I could not possibly conceive that anyone who was serious about protecting public services in Scotland would want to have sterlingisation."

Critically though, we now have absolute clarity from the SNP, via both Alex Salmond and John Swinney, that if an independent Scotland is not allowed it's Plan A, an independent Scotland will default on it share of the Unions debt.

Ladies a gentlemen, I give you the Scottish National Party. Flying in the face of every other major Political Party in the country, now throwing threats around like a playground bully because it can't get what it has been told, from day 1 of the debate, that it can't get!

Such threats have serious repercussions for us and our country. As Charles Kennedy, former Lib Dem leader, said last night, if an inde Scotland did not shoulder it's share of the debt "the international markets would have you for breakfast lunch and dinner".

We have a Scottish Parliament, we are undoubtedly moving towards Devolution and all the benefits this brings in terms of controlling our own destiny while enjoying the benefits of remaining part of the union with Wales, Northern Ireland, and England. Devolution equally offers NO issues whatsoever in terms of remaining part of Nato, European Union, Currency etc.

If you are a Labour voter your parties leader is urging you to vote No. If you are a Lib Dem voter your parties leader is urging you to vote No. We are now seeing the true face of the SNP, power hungry marginalist bullies determined to get their way regardless of the consequences for the good people of Scotland.

Vote No, Devolution will follow, sorted.

Plague, fire and pestilence will descend upon you. But it will be nothing compared to what else might be winging through the airwaves or ether net or whateverthehell. How dare you tell the truth which has been there for all to see before the campaign started. It's just not convenient, you know. For some.

[Stuart Dickson]

You can't default on a debt that isn't yours. If rUK wants to keep the assets then they keep the liabilities.

The international markets KNOW Scotland accrued at least part of the debt. It would be seen as a default. Maybe Standard and Poors will let you add a note to your credit file that will be ignored just like Equifax do with your personal credit file.

[E=Mc2]

This threads going to the dogs. Anyone fancy clearing the stage, and shining the spotlight brightly and exclusively on the Currency issue?

From day 1 the Better Together position has been clear, no currency union with an independent Scotland.

From day 1 the SNP position has been clear, they want to retain currency union despite the pound sterling belonging to the union, with no willingness to discuss a Plan B.

As we have witnessed in recent weeks the SNP have conceded their own goal with regard to their unwillingness to discuss Plan B, and instead have now admitted it would be one of various flavors of Sterlingisation. Some say it could work, others point to the glaring holes in terms of no central bank, no lender of last resort, phucked all ends up if there is a 'run' on cash ie. we all take out money out of Scottish 'banks' and put it elsewhere. Classic theory meets reality, we can't know until it happens. As I've stated, I personally would move what money I have to banks outside an inde Scotland.

On a positive we at last have clarity from the SNP. They are sticking with their Plan A, despite this having been ruled out by every other major political party (Labour, Lib Dems, Conservatives) in Wales, Northern Ireland, and England. They have declared their Plan B, the bag of rats and risks that is Sterlingisation. Just last night Johann Lamont, Scottish Labour Leader stated "I could not possibly conceive that anyone who was serious about protecting public services in Scotland would want to have sterlingisation."

Critically though, we now have absolute clarity from the SNP, via both Alex Salmond and John Swinney, that if an independent Scotland is not allowed it's Plan A, an independent Scotland will default on it share of the Unions debt.

Ladies a gentlemen, I give you the Scottish National Party. Flying in the face of every other major Political Party in the country, now throwing threats around like a playground bully because it can't get what it has been told, from day 1 of the debate, that it can't get!

Such threats have serious repercussions for us and our country. As Charles Kennedy, former Lib Dem leader, said last night, if an inde Scotland did not shoulder it's share of the debt "the international markets would have you for breakfast lunch and dinner".

We have a Scottish Parliament, we are undoubtedly moving towards Devolution and all the benefits this brings in terms of controlling our own destiny while enjoying the benefits of remaining part of the union with Wales, Northern Ireland, and England. Devolution equally offers NO issues whatsoever in terms of remaining part of Nato, European Union, Currency etc.

If you are a Labour voter your parties leader is urging you to vote No. If you are a Lib Dem voter your parties leader is urging you to vote No. We are now seeing the true face of the SNP, power hungry marginalist bullies determined to get their way regardless of the consequences for the good people of Scotland.

Vote No, Devolution will follow, sorted.

You have no chance of getting an answer to a very important issue.

I am awaiting an answer to my future potential mobile phone bills.

At present it's a sim only deal of £16 per month unlimited minutes, texts, and tethering data.

With 60 minutes a day going to England I would like to know what my new costs will be when I call another country in Europe.

[saintnextlifetime]

Wrong Planet, on 27 Aug 2014 - 09:19, said:

This threads going to the dogs. Anyone fancy clearing the stage, and shining the spotlight brightly and exclusively on the Currency issue?

From day 1 the Better Together position has been clear, no currency union with an independent Scotland.
From day 1 the SNP position has been clear, they want to retain currency union despite the pound sterling belonging to the union, with no willingness to discuss a Plan B.

As we have witnessed in recent weeks the SNP have conceded their own goal with regard to their unwillingness to discuss Plan B, and instead have now admitted it would be one of various flavors of Sterlingisation. Some say it could work, others point to the glaring holes in terms of no central bank, no lender of last resort, phucked all ends up if there is a 'run' on cash ie. we all take out money out of Scottish 'banks' and put it elsewhere. Classic theory meets reality, we can't know until it happens. As I've stated, I personally would move what money I have to banks outside an inde Scotland.

On a positive we at last have clarity from the SNP. They are sticking with their Plan A, despite this having been ruled out by every other major political party (Labour, Lib Dems, Conservatives) in Wales, Northern Ireland, and England. They have declared their Plan B, the bag of rats and risks that is Sterlingisation. Just last night Johann Lamont, Scottish Labour Leader stated "I could not possibly conceive that anyone who was serious about protecting public services in Scotland would want to have sterlingisation."

Critically though, we now have absolute clarity from the SNP, via both Alex Salmond and John Swinney, that if an independent Scotland is not allowed it's Plan A, an independent Scotland will default on it share of the Unions debt.

Ladies a gentlemen, I give you the Scottish National Party. Flying in the face of every other major Political Party in the country, now throwing threats around like a playground bully because it can't get what it has been told, from day 1 of the debate, that it can't get!

Such threats have serious repercussions for us and our country. As Charles Kennedy, former Lib Dem leader, said last night, if an inde Scotland did not shoulder it's share of the debt "the international markets would have you for breakfast lunch and dinner".

We have a Scottish Parliament, we are undoubtedly moving towards Devolution and all the benefits this brings in terms of controlling our own destiny while enjoying the benefits of remaining part of the union with Wales, Northern Ireland, and England. Devolution equally offers NO issues whatsoever in terms of remaining part of Nato, European Union, Currency etc.

If you are a Labour voter your parties leader is urging you to vote No. If you are a Lib Dem voter your parties leader is urging you to vote No. We are now seeing the true face of the SNP, power hungry marginalist bullies determined to get their way regardless of the consequences for the good people of Scotland.

Vote No, Devolution will follow, sorted.

Let's just break that down . .

George Osbourne arrives with his school boy bully , imperialist English rhetoric and says that its our pound and you're not getting it . The governor of the Bank Of England says that it could be done . Where does it say the pound "belongs to the Union" . If it does say that then it also belongs to Scotland .

The SNP have conceded an own goal , that would be your personal Unionist opinion , obviously . They don't need a plan B , the rUK Tories would have to negotiate on the CU , they need us , if not just to shoulder the debt for them but to help the stability of the pound. As far as moving money out of Scottish banks is concerned , I'd actually encourage you to do that now , as you obviously have no faith in your own country. I'd also think you would be far happier living outside Scotland , probably south of the border.

"Critically though, we now have absolute clarity from the SNP, via both Alex Salmond and John Swinney, that if an independent Scotland is not allowed it's Plan A, an independent Scotland will default on it share of the Unions debt." Right , now l take it that that section is supposed to be revelatory , yes ? Of course we wouldn't share the debt under those circumstances, why would we ? The British can't have their cake and eat it , because it isn't all their cake and they didn't fork out all the money to pay for it.

You quote a couple of Unionist politicians , including Chuckles Kennedy (who still makes me chuckle) who are fervently hanging onto the last vestige of an argument with the CU. It is the only thing they have left that continues to put doubt in some peoples minds . Chuckles Kennedy and Lamont are like two recent prime ministers we had in the rUK , they are both Scot's born but for their own political ends they would rather that Scotland remains England's vassal . They remind me of that lady councillor that turned up at our League Cup celebrations with her black and white nail varnish on (having previously voted AGAINST St Mirren getting a new stadium).

We are moving towards Devolution ? Are we ? We already have devolution , where have you been .

So all the Unionist English parties are trying to bully urge their members to vote no . Of course they are , what else would they do ? As has been mentioned countless times before , this referendum has fuck all to do with any political party , politician or particular policy , it is about one question and one question alone - Should Scotland be an independent country? That is it . Should Scotland have it's own sovereignty , like most other nations on Earth , take for granted. .

If you believe that Scotland should remain England's vassal state and continue to have governments it didn't vote for , then vote no. If you believe that Scotland's right to self-determinism should be exercised then you vote YES , it is simple , no need to complicate it. .

Edited August 27, 2014 by saintnextlifetime

[RickMcD]

You have no chance of getting an answer to a very important issue.

I am awaiting an answer to my future potential mobile phone bills.

At present it's a sim only deal of £16 per month unlimited minutes, texts, and tethering data.

With 60 minutes a day going to England I would like to know what my new costs will be when I call another country in Europe.

I don't know the charges but as someone who crosses the border into Eire fairly regularly, I always get a message just after I've crossed the border warning me that I'm now on a completely different tariff. Always sounds ominous and I've certainly heard friends up here moaning about the charges. No idea if an independent Scotland would be affected. We'll probably never know anyway.