Crowd Funding For St Mirren

[basher1981]

I don't know why the board wouldn't look at this by way of raising the funds needed to sell their share in the club?

They have 52%. They could easily create a crowd funding platform to sell their shares. It would mean real ownership of the club would be transferred to the fans / punters who chip in for some shares and their over valued share price would be achievable.

Look at Brewdog for example. Their first batch of crowd funding saw them offer 2% of their shares at £95 a share. I think it valued the company at around 10 million or something. ( might have been more)

The beauty is if they ( the board) don't achieve their target price in the set time scale then they don't sell one share. In fact the guys at the helm could still maintain some shareholding and be the initial board to run the club.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

I don't know why the board wouldn't look at this by way of raising the funds needed to sell their share in the club?

They have 52%. They could easily create a crowd funding platform to sell their shares. It would mean real ownership of the club would be transferred to the fans / punters who chip in for some shares and their over valued share price would be achievable.

Look at Brewdog for example. Their first batch of crowd funding saw them offer 2% of their shares at £95 a share. I think it valued the company at around 10 million or something. ( might have been more)

The beauty is if they ( the board) don't achieve their target price in the set time scale then they don't sell one share. In fact the guys at the helm could still maintain some shareholding and be the initial board to run the club.

While I'm all for fan ownership we had the chance unfortunately it was well under funded. Before that Stuart Gilmour put out a share issue again well underfunded.

Going by these two factors it would seem a large section of our fans are not interested.

Anyway what about the rumour Man City are buying us up this week apparently before the end of ( pre ) season. Looking at my watch there is a few hours left

Edited July 31, 2014 by Isle Of Bute Saint

[bud77]

With crowd funding you would be selling the shares to individuals rather than a group so the 52% majority shareholding would be lost and one of the other current shareholders would then become the majority shareholder. You have little knowledge of who would actually be buying the shares by crowd funding and could find that someone unsuitable pays for a large share and also starts buying the share from other shareholders in order to get the majority.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

With crowd funding you would be selling the shares to individuals rather than a group so the 52% majority shareholding would be lost and one of the other current shareholders would then become the majority shareholder. You have little knowledge of who would actually be buying the shares by crowd funding and could find that someone unsuitable pays for a large share and also starts buying the share from other shareholders in order to get the majority.

The only way it could be done is through SMISA - Again they were formed to raise money for the club then come up with the idea to purchase shares which the club said NO to. It could still be possible to have a fan buy out through SMISA but going by my post above not enough fans care about a fan buy out with 500 hours being the prefect example.

[Lord Pityme]

the last thing we need is a rag-tag approach to buying the club. Fan ownership imo only works as a partnership with a controlling interest person/body leading.

The german 50+1% model could serve us well... IF..! there is a group of suitably qualified/dedicated people prepared to front it for no more than a free seat and pie in the directors box.

What won't work patently is trying to get the fans to buy the club from the consortium and then being left with a debt and no working capital.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

the last thing we need is a rag-tag approach to buying the club. Fan ownership imo only works as a partnership with a controlling interest person/body leading.

The german 50+1% model could serve us well... IF..! there is a group of suitably qualified/dedicated people prepared to front it for no more than a free seat and pie in the directors box.

What won't work patently is trying to get the fans to buy the club from the consortium and then being left with a debt and no working capital.

Raising the cash is a much harder prospect than finding someone to sit on the board which could easily done by vote. As I wrote above SMISA is the way forward with this. Unfortunately tried tested to failure every time cash has been tried to be raised.

[Lord Pityme]

Raising the cash is a much harder prospect than finding someone to sit on the board which could easily done by vote. As I wrote above SMISA is the way forward with this. Unfortunately tried tested to failure every time cash has been tried to be raised.

IMO its the other way round.

The cash could be raised but getting not just anyone that wants a crack at it, but people with the skill set, time and inclination to be questioned about every tiny decision, and what their motivation is....

Those people are the hardest to attract, really who wants the grief?

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

IMO its the other way round.

The cash could be raised but getting not just anyone that wants a crack at it, but people with the skill set, time and inclination to be questioned about every tiny decision, and what their motivation is....

Those people are the hardest to attract, really who wants the grief?

So you don't believe SMISA is the way forward to 1/ organize the raising of funds , 2/ to find the appropriate people to be voted to board level.

I'm curious how you think the funding can be found when two previous attempts , one to raise cash through shares and the other 500hours fell well short of the target.

I'm all for fan ownership of the club and would contribute just feel it's pie in the sky with what I wrote above.

[steve_the_saint]

So you don't believe SMISA is the way forward to 1/ organize the raising of funds , 2/ to find the appropriate people to be voted to board level.

I'm curious how you think the funding can be found when two previous attempts , one to raise cash through shares and the other 500hours fell well short of the target.

I'm all for fan ownership of the club and would contribute just feel it's pie in the sky with what I wrote above.

You do realise its 10000hours, or am I being wooshed?

I don't see much difference between crowd funding and the 10000hours attempts anyway. As has been said, the shares need to be sold as a lump 52%, and 10000hours provided the means to do that, whereas crowd funding can't.

The problem I felt for 10000hours was that it wasn't publicised enough. Although I accept that it is difficult if the club can't get involved in publicising it too much due to conflicts of interest.

[Lord Pityme]

So you don't believe SMISA is the way forward to 1/ organize the raising of funds , 2/ to find the appropriate people to be voted to board level.I'm curious how you think the funding can be found when two previous attempts , one to raise cash through shares and the other 500hours fell well short of the target.I'm all for fan ownership of the club and would contribute just feel it's pie in the sky with what I wrote above.

I didn't even reference Smisa..?

What Atkinson's folly proved is that the money could be raised from the support, businesses etc.... But leaves the purchasers with no working capital to then run the club on a day to day basis. Bearing in mind there is at least a 400k shortfall to be found every season.

What that debacle also proved is the fan base who were the on,y people to ever commit funds to the proposal! Won't accept a bunch of no marks with Fitzy nailed on for effect, to come in and run the club.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

You do realise its 10000hours, or am I being wooshed?

I don't see much difference between crowd funding and the 10000hours attempts anyway. As has been said, the shares need to be sold as a lump 52%, and 10000hours provided the means to do that, whereas crowd funding can't.

The problem I felt for 10000hours was that it wasn't publicised enough. Although I accept that it is difficult if the club can't get involved in publicising it too much due to conflicts of interest.

Was making a joke as we ran short of raised funds.

At the end of the day would love to see us the fans control the club. It needs a leader to get is started.

[Mid Calder Saint]

Real problem re sale is that any likely buyers will surely want at least 72% shareholding to assume overall control. In any event under Company Law an egm would be required if an acceptable bid is received by the Syndicate.

[smcc]

Real problem re sale is that any likely buyers will surely want at least 72% shareholding to assume overall control. In any event under Company Law an egm would be required if an acceptable bid is received by the Syndicate.

Who decides whether a bid is "acceptable"?

[rea]

Real problem re sale is that any likely buyers will surely want at least 72% shareholding to assume overall control. In any event under Company Law an egm would be required if an acceptable bid is received by the Syndicate.

Not correct

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Not correct

Don't like to cover old ground but the fans had a great opportunity with you Richard fan ownership is the way ahead unfortunately for us not enough numbers took up the chance.

Have tried to explain above raising funds is not easy. Share Issue - 10,000 HOURS - Even SMISA in the early day's when it was needed only had a few hundred members. You should never say never I have my doubts for reasons given.

Best of luck in your guidance on the new venture.

[Lord Pityme]

Don't like to cover old ground but the fans had a great opportunity with you Richard fan ownership is the way ahead unfortunately for us not enough numbers took up the chance.Have tried to explain above raising funds is not easy. Share Issue - 10,000 HOURS - Even SMISA in the early day's when it was needed only had a few hundred members. You should never say never I have my doubts for reasons given.Best of luck in your guidance on the new venture.

Point of order!

It was the fans, and only the fans who took up the chance in more than the minimum number required.

All the other forms of funds proposed never materialised......

The fans were there and ready.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Lord Pityme

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Point of order!

It was the fans, and only the fans who took up the chance in more than the minimum number required.

All the other forms of funds proposed never materialised......

The fans were there and ready.

Correct. How many fans do you think it would take to raise two million and within what time scale.

[rea]

Point of order!

It was the fans, and only the fans who took up the chance in more than the minimum number required.

All the other forms of funds proposed never materialised......

The fans were there and ready.

Not correct

[rea]

Correct. How many fans do you think it would take to raise two million and within what time scale.

Some context. 8500 FoH members using the 10000Hours platform raise 1.4m per year.

Different circumstances I grant you but shows what is possible.

[rea]

Correct. How many fans do you think it would take to raise two million and within what time scale.

Some context. 8500 FoH members using the 10000Hours platform raise 1.4m per year.

Different circumstances I grant you but shows what is possible.

[Lord Pityme]

Not correct

Didn't see anyone else pony up th dough!

Heard lots of promises though, try swaping them for lager over the bar in the Tile.

[rea]

Didn't see anyone else pony up th dough!

Heard lots of promises though, try swaping them for lager over the bar in the Tile.

Remember no money was taken from anyone. The 1000+ fans The Corporate and Community members and the bigger funders.

All were in exactly the same boat. £1.25m offered and turned down.

Nothing more.

We made errors but no one had tried it before. Those fans groups that learned from us have done ok by it so far

[Lord Pityme]

Remember no money was taken from anyone. The 1000+ fans The Corporate and Community members and the bigger funders.

All were in exactly the same boat. £1.25m offered and turned down.

Nothing more.

We made errors but no one had tried it before. Those fans groups that learned from us have done ok by it so far

So my statement was correct?

The fans put up what was asked of them,

the shortfall on tabling a bid that would have been accepted, and the lack of any assurances as to how the ongoing cash flow deficit of 400 k each year would be managed was why it was turned down.

The club and the fans would have been saddled with an unserviceable debt.

[oaksoft]

I don't know why the board wouldn't look at this by way of raising the funds needed to sell their share in the club?

Because Crowdfunding is a fad which is being overhyped.

The overwhelming number of people who try to get funding that way fail to attract any funding at all.

The likes of Brewdog do succeed but they are in a very tiny minority.

Quite apart from anything else, our club doesn't need money, it needs people to run it.

Crowdfunding won't give you that.

[Lord Pityme]

Lord Pity Me,

All of that's gone now. Any chance you can leave it with REA? We all need to move on now.

When the attempts to re-write history stop... Aye.

I won't accept these puerile attempts suggesting saints fans were to blame for that clusterf**k.