Westminster Voting Intentions

[Stuart Dickson]

WWII History lessons in school explained that there wasn't much difference between extreme left wing and extreme right wing policies. Were you not listening at school? The big difference is the ideology that led them to those policies. For example, xenophobia in the case of the far right and an extreme distrust of capitalism in the case of the far left.

It's been said before, by wiser folk than anyone on here (except maybe Bluto and Rick, because they are very, very wise and learned men), that fascism is capitalism stripped of all democratic pretenses. Now, if you are accusing Stalin's USSR of that, then you are being a little silly.

You are running round in circles trying to prove one thing I said wrong, and all your examples are nonsense. There is a difference between racism and xenophobia, even though the actions of those who "suffer" from them can be very similar.

I wasn't trying to prove the socio economic differences in ideology - I was simply stating, as you have done, that sometimes it was very difficult to differentiate between the two ideologies in practice. Hence the reason that the Scottish Natsi's can sometimes look extremely left wing whilst displaying so many similarities to the German National Socialists.

You are completely wrong though, xenophobia was not exclusive to the far right and it never has been - even though claiming it is would help make my point about the SNP. In Stalins USSR for example 7,000,000 Ukrainians were murdered in a mass genocide that wiped out a quarter of their population in 1932-3. During this period when Soviet troops were killing 10,000 Ukrainians per day, Lazar Kaganovitch, became enraged that not enough Ukrainians were being killed and ordered the murder of 25,000 per day. A further 2,000,000 more Ukrainians were sent to concentration camps. He didn't stop there either. In 1941 he ordered the mass execution and deportation of the Volga Germans, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians and Poles. Then there was Stalins genocide of 2,000,000 muslims living within the USSR where he targeted Chechans, Ingush, Crimean Tartars, Tajiks, Bashkirs and Kazaks. Even before that in 1920 Communists in Russia exterminated all Don Cossacks.

Want more examples? Read up on the PRC under Mao, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, or the mass murders committed by regimes in North Korea, Vietnam, and in Romania. There's plenty more too.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Stuart Dickson

[Stuart Dickson]

I'll read the rest later. Where did I say that xenophobia was EXCLUSIVE to the far right? You're just making shit up ... again.

You didn't say EXCLUSIVE - that's true - but you did make this fanny fart.

You are aware that you tend to find xenophobes more to the right, politically, than to the left, aren't you? This is due to their xenophobia shaping their beliefs/opinions. You call the SNP socialists and then claim that people who agree with them are xenophobes. It doesn't really add up.

I never saw the debate or QT so I'm not passing comment on either - until I do.

There is no question that the anti-English sentiment that pervades the Scottish National Socialists Party and their followers IS xenophobic.

[ford prefect]

People in England voting in their own interest....democracy. Scotland doing the same... Fourth reich. Some people need to put away Lanarkshire's favourite tipple

Edited April 5, 2015 by ford prefect

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I see the Westminster establishment has the dept of dirty tricks and smears fully engaged once more.

[Stuart Dickson]

I see the Westminster establishment has the dept of dirty tricks and smears fully engaged once more.

I see that once again the cowardly Natsi Brownshirts are out in force this time abusing a journalist for doing his job.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/05/james-cook-nicola-sturgeon_n_7006348.html

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I see that once again the cowardly Natsi Brownshirts are out in force this time abusing a journalist for doing his job.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/05/james-cook-nicola-sturgeon_n_7006348.html

Deflection

also a questionable statement from you on a few levels

BTW - the like from me was due to my phone slipping...

Edited April 5, 2015 by TPAFKATS

[Stuart Dickson]

Deflection

also a questionable statement from you on a few levels

BTW - the like from me was due to my phone slipping...

What? Do you mean that my metaphoric reference won't be right? We all know these Cybernats are far more likely to be sitting at their computer in their heavily soiled string vests and urine soaked y-fronts?

[saintnextlifetime]

Since they were using starvation to kill the Ukrainians, how could he order 25,000 a day to be killed?

Historians strongly suspect that Stalin used the famine to eradicate the growing Ukrainian independence movement. Hmmmm.

We all know Stalin was a mass murderer, what's your point?

What has any of that got to do with xenophobia?

The guy you are quoting , obviously has an obsession with totalitarian genocide . Sometimes the British /Hanoverian government and its supporters , have been quick to demonise regimes that have used genocide/concentration camps when , indeed , the British/Hanoverian government practically invented them. .

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Didn't a journalist recently write he wanted to see our first minister hung.

Must have missed the condemnation of him from our resident lying bigot.

Oh yes, just last week. Bizarrely the author claimed to be, amongst other qualities, an expert in Public Relations.

And then of course there is Ian Smart, lawyer and labour activist who is a regular on bbc Scotland. His rantings are deranged and full of nazi references.

He also claims to be a St Mirren fan from Lanarkshire. It's uncanny...

[FTOF]

Oh yes, just last week. Bizarrely the author claimed to be, amongst other qualities, an expert in Public Relations.

And then of course there is Ian Smart, lawyer and labour activist who is a regular on bbc Scotland. His rantings are deranged and full of nazi references.

He also claims to be a St Mirren fan from Lanarkshire. It's uncanny...

I could be wrong, but I think either he or his brother went to school at PGS with my older brother.

[Stuart Dickson]

Since they were using starvation to kill the Ukrainians, how could he order 25,000 a day to be killed?

Historians strongly suspect that Stalin used the famine to eradicate the growing Ukrainian independence movement. Hmmmm.

We all know Stalin was a mass murderer, what's your point?

What has any of that got to do with xenophobia?

Ach, you know what. I've tried to give you a history lesson. Clearly my history teacher at school was better than yours. I know that all of the Communist Revolutions contained at least an element of xenophobia. However if you are insistent that xenophobia is more of a Fascist trait I'm happy to let that slide. It is just a football website after all..

So given all that will now you accept that the SNP really are the natsi party when their party leaders continually making xenophobic comments about English politicians and politics, usually from a position of complete ignorance?

[saintnextlifetime]

IIRC concentration camps were first used in Southern Africa, and yes, by the British.

I also think that one of the first instances of antisemitism was "concocted" by an English king in the 12th/13th century to avoid paying back a vast amount of money he had borrowed from the Jewish community in England.

There was also the genocide in this country during the 18th century . .

[2becks]

IIRC concentration camps were first used in Southern Africa, and yes, by the British.

I also think that one of the first instances of antisemitism was "concocted" by an English king in the 12th/13th century to avoid paying back a vast amount of money he had borrowed from the Jewish community in England.

To be fair anti-Semitism was around for thousands of years vofore that, I think, for ezample, the biblical stories of Jewis slaves in Egypt are pretty poor behaviour toward Jews.

[FTOF]

You still aren't getting it, are you?

What the f**k has any of it got to do with xenophobia? A phobia is an irrational fear of something. Xenophobia is an irrational fear of foreigners (or a "strange" culture). Racism and xenophobia are not the same. I've already told you this. You keep talking about things that are racist (or that you try to make out as racist) or that are the actions of despots clinging to power and call them xenophobic. Just because one nationality murders millions of another nationality does not automatically make it xenophobic.

You've tried to give me a history lesson? You've really just been digging up numerous instances of historical genocide to try and "back up" your misuse of a single word. It's actually a bit sick.

Your history teacher may well have been better than mine but learning is mainly due to the student. And after all your previous claims that you were failed by state education, you try and come out with that pish?

Obviously your English teacher succeeded where his didn't.

[Stuart Dickson]

IIRC concentration camps were first used in Southern Africa, and yes, by the British.

Aw FFS. You really don't know your history do you?

"Concentration Camps" have been used all throughout history usually to detain prisoners of war. The allegation levelled at Lord Kitchener over the Boer War was that the British were the first to detain innocent civilians in these camps - unfortunately for you that's not true either. The first reporting of a country using those tactics was actually the Russians who used Concentration Camps to detain civilians in Poland during the Bar Confederation Rebellion in 1768 - 1772.

Also prior to the Boer War concentration camps were used by the Spanish to detain civilians in the Ten Years War in Cuba from 1868 - 78, then again during the Cuban War of Independence 1895 - 1898 and by the USA in the Philippine - American War of 1899 - 1902. All of them were prior to the Boer War which was from 1900 - 1902.

According to historical documents the camps in the Boer War were initially refugee camps to house refugees who had been fleeing their houses during the war and it was only at a latter stage in the War when they were finally used as concentration camps as we would recognise the term as the British Empire troops struggled to stop acts of terrorism by the Boer population that they had presumed to have defeated already. Note it was British Empire troops, not British troops as the troops managing the Concentration Camps during the Boer War were typically Australian.

[Stuart Dickson]

Eh?

Just because the slaves were Jewish, it doesn't mean that there was any antisemitism involved. They just happened to live "next door" and were conquered and enslaved.

Oh, and the bible's not, how do I put this, let's say "not 100% accurate".

You are funny. The Romans attitude towards Jews is well documented throughout history, the whole story of Moses was about anti semitism - but in your warped mind Anti Semitism didn't start till the 13th Century in England. You really are embarrassingly thick - and racist, if not xenophobic.

[2becks]

Eh?

Just because the slaves were Jewish, it doesn't mean that there was any antisemitism involved. They just happened to live "next door" and were conquered and enslaved.

Oh, and the bible's not, how do I put this, let's say "not 100% accurate".

I certainly won' argue with the bible being a less than reliable source of historical data, but my point stands, anti-Semitism in all it's forms goes back as far as recorded history and saying that a race are local is certainly not and never has been grounds to enslave them. I don't think you have any grounds to claim that the English invented anti-Semitism.

Please think more carefully before you post, the fact that I felt I had to disagree with you in my last post has caused the blocked Mr Dickson to 'like' what I wrote. I may never feel clean again.

[Stuart Dickson]

That will be why my post said "IIRC". I wasn't claiming it to be fact so all your "unfortunately for you" patter is meaningless.

Your ability to copy from Wiki is to be applauded even if you are unable to read that the 2nd Boer War started in 1899 not 1900.

Prisoners of war are held at POW Camps not Concentration Camps.

The Bar Confederation Rebellion camps were used to house rebel captives awaiting deportation. So even though one Polish historian has suggested that they were concentration camps, they apparently weren't for holding civilians. The first recorded use of what can be classed as concentration camps is the late 19th century.

There were 347,000 British Regulars and 103,000 - 153,000 Colonial Forces on the British side during the 2nd Boer War. I have no idea of who actually manned the camps but it is irrelevant. It was under the command of Senior British Officers and they were empire troops (from British Colonies) and not Commonwealth troops.

All this is from your favourite, Wiki, where you got your info from - can't you read properly? As FTOF said, it looks like my English teacher succeeded where yours failed.

Even when you get something right, you f**k it up and get so much wrong.

So let's just get this straight - you are now climbing down both on your claims that the British invented Concentration Camps and that the English invented anti-scemitism. How embarrassing for you?

Now will you admit that it's your xenophobic (as I would put it) or racist (as you would put it) anti-English beliefs that led you to the ridiculous conclusion that the English were the source of all evil.

[Stuart Dickson]

IIRC concentration camps were first used in Southern Africa, and yes, by the British.

I also think that one of the first instances of antisemitism was "concocted" by an English king in the 12th/13th century to avoid paying back a vast amount of money he had borrowed from the Jewish community in England.

Erm, you did claim the British invented concentration camps and you've claimed that the first instance of anti semitism was English. You've embarrassed yourself and we were proved wrong by me of all people. How cringe inducing for you. You'd be better off quitting whilst you are down.

[Stuart Dickson]

FFS. More proof of your inability to understand basic English. Read the post of mine you quoted. It proves you wrong in your accusations. You really are a f**king idiot. Or are you back on the drink again?

There's nothing to mis-understand. It's quite simple, you've made an anti-British allegation and an anti-English allegation. Both were unfounded, neither were correct, and both prove beyond all doubt that you're nationalist hatred of all things "English" / "British" have clouded your judgement. I would call you xenophobic, but you've already said that you think that's wrong and that it should be classed as racist. Not that it matters. You've already stated that both of those traits are more common amongst extreme right wingers and I guess you should know best....

[salmonbuddie]

If we're all so anti-English why have I just spent a very pleasant Easter weekend with family in Essex? A spying mission?

You provide proof of your ignorance every time you try and use that "fact" to put down the independence campaign.

Edited April 7, 2015 by salmonbuddie

[Stuart Dickson]

You say that there is nothing to misunderstand and yet you manage to misunderstand, FFS you even needlessly hyphenated misunderstand. I should really have stopped reading your post at that point as the rest was bound to be nonsense. And, of course, it was.

You better get a dictionary and look up the word "allegation".

IF I had said, " The British were the first to use concentration camps" and IF I had said "The English were the first anti semitists", then they would have been allegations. Just as well I didn't do that then, isn't it?

I'm not, in any way at all, anti-English (except for the aforementioned football commentators) and I'm not anti-British in the way you are trying to imply. Of course, you know this and are just trying to get a reaction. Just as well you're not intelligent enough to get me to react in the way you want, isn't it?

All this nonsense to try and hide the fact that you misused a single word. Grow up and just admit that you're an idiot then we can all ignore you and you can continue your rants knowing nobody will correct you because you are just BAWA's "village idiot". You can just happily go about chewing your bit of straw, having discussions with your other aliases and "liking" their posts. Run along now, your other personalities will be missing you.

There's no pretence on my part. I've already stated and been quoted as saying that I am a victim of our shite publically funded Scottish Education system. I'm not highly educated and unlike you I don't have a degree. However I have pissed all over you on so many different threads that you must be dying of embarrassment. I mean how could the "village idiot" know more about government bonds and gilts than an educated man such as yourself who thinks our national debt is funded through Premium Bonds. How could the village idiot call you out on your ridiculous claims that the English invented anti-semitism, and the British creating "the first" Concentration Camps? How could the village idiot also show up such an educated mans claims that xenophobia is a mainly right wing disease by citing clear and obvious instances from history of Communist xenophobia from the obvious instances like the holocaust in the Ukraine, or the Killing Fields of the Khmer Rouge?

Thanks for proving my argument that we waste too much tax payers money on University Education in this country. If a real dafty like you can get a degree so can any "village idiot".

Edited April 7, 2015 by Stuart Dickson

[Stuart Dickson]

Oh dear - this morning sees another prominent SNP member defecting to the Labour Party as he claims that he is shocked how members of Nicola Sturgeons own constituency party are backing the Conservatives to win the General Election. It looks like Sturgeon really was protesting way too much.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/key-snp-figure-defects-labour-5469873

[2becks]

Oh dear it seems like a former Labour councillor has re-joined the party, no wonder it's front-page news.

[FTOF]

Oh dear it seems like a former Labour councillor has re-joined the party, no wonder it's front-page news.

Indeed.

Total desperation.

I believe that the more the labour campaign unfurls, they're realising just how deep in the shit they are.

By Christ, they're even giving Tony Bliar an outing now (on the BBC news). They must have completely given up n Scotland by now.