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2 hours ago, Stu said:

Of the four on the shortlist you can probably make equally good cases for Stubbs and McIntyre getting the job. Wouldn't have touched Caldwell and don't know enough about the Irish guy. The board's gone for Stubbs which, out of that four, is probably fine by me. It didn't go well for him at Rotherham but the likes of McInnes and Lennon had bad spells in England and it hasn't done them much harm when they've come back to Scotland. As long as he's learned from it and doesn't make the same mistakes he made there (and at Hibs) then he should be fine.

Neilson, Lambert, Goodwin and Hopkin all said no. Seemingly Mellon did too. Kluivert and Guti were unlikely to happen. McCoist would have been a disaster. Realistically who else should we have considered? There aren't any other up and coming managers in Scotland at the moment I can think of and I'd rather we didn't go for someone like Duffy or Houston.

In regard to ‘who else’, I wondered if Austin MacPhee at Hearts might have thought about applying. Maybe he’s happy to be behind the scenes.

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4 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

20 league defeats out of 36 games was the record for Murray in his second season at Dumbarton. the season Jack Ross left as his assistant and went to Hearts youth academy. 9 wins out of 36 league games... and our board thought he's the man to take us forward (he gives a good interview).

Here's that Dumbarton season month by month in the league:

August: 3 defeats and 1 win (Livingston - the season they had 5 points deducted for financial irregularities)... scoring 3 and conceding 11 (Raith and Queen of the South both score 3 or 4 goals against them as do the comedy version of Sevco).

September: 2 draws (Hearts and Falkirk) and 1 win (Alloa)

October: 2 draws (Cowdenbeath & Hibs), 2 defeats (Hearts 5-1;  Sevco 0-3) 1 goal scored all month and 8 conceded

November: 2 defeats (3-0 QOTS; 3-6 Hibs) and 1 victory (2-1 against Livingston) - 5 goals scored 10 conceded

December:  along with March this was their best month in the season - 3 wins (Alloa 0-1; Raith 2-1; and Cowdenbeath 1-3) and 1 defeat (Falkirk 0-3) 6 goals scored 5 conceded

January: 4 defeats in a row (Sevco  3-1; Hearts 1-5; Raith 2-1; Livingston 1-5) and 1 draw (Falkirk 3-3) 7 goals scored, 13 conceded  .The next win comes at the start of March.

February:  2 defeats (Cowdenbeath 1-2 &  Hibs 3-0) and 1 draw (QOTS 0-0) 1 goal scored all month and 5 conceded

March: 3 wins (Alloa 1-0; Livingston 1-2;  Falkirk 1-0) and I defeat (Hearts 4-0) 4 goals scored, 5 goals conceded

April:  5 defeats in a row (Cowdenbeath 3-0; Hibs 1-2; Alloa 3-0; Sevco Comedy Xi 1-3; QOTS 2-1)

May: 1 draw (Raith 2-2)

Summary of the season: In almost 1/3 of games Dumbarton failed to score a goal in a league where half the teams had part-time players (Cowdenbeath; Alloa; Livingston; Raith as well as Dumbarton themselves).  7 of their 9 league wins were by a 1 goal margin. Dumbarton were the only team in the league to lose all 4 league games to the Sevco Comedy XI that season. 56% of all league games ended in defeat.  Dumbarton conceded 79 goals in 36 league games and we paid out compensation to Dumbarton and unveiled Ian Murray as someone who had over-achieved on a small budget in the Championship. One look at their results that season show we had made a huge mistake.

 

JR comparison ignored.

Dumbarton finished the best p/t team in the country again. 

IM was a popular choice at the time, with a good record in the division we were about to enter.

That seems like due diligence to me.

 

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4 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

 One look at their results that season show we had made a huge mistake.

 

Not quite what you said in May 2015! :lol:

Quote

I've already said that it is positive Murray is an outside appointment and a young up and coming manager. It's a positive that he knows the strengths and weaknesses of most of the squads we'll face next year and has helped a part time team stay in the league with 5th and 7th placed finishes in his 2 seasons in charge. If I've laboured talking about their defence last year it's because most St Mirren fans didn't rate Mair or DVZ highly at this stage of their careers and Murray signed them both and their defensive record deteriorated (albeit in a stronger league).

Everything's easier in hindsight! :lol:

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3 minutes ago, zico said:

 


Nice digging emoji106.png

You won’t find me saying anything positive though!
 

 

I don't even remember who you were back then.

Besides you've  got style.

PS - You & StuD are running away with the argument in the Harry Davis thread! :happyclapper:fishwallop

 

youngbucks.jpgzico & StuD

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7 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

Not quite what you said in May 2015! :lol:

Everything's easier in hindsight! :lol:

You didn't quote what I posted in May 2015 about their defensive record or league performance in 2014-5... just the selective bit of positive balance.

From 23rd May 2015:

"

I have an open mind about whether Murray will be a good appointment. I'm hoping he will but I have not been carried away by the wave of enthusiasm which mostly greeted his appointment. I believe you managed to pick out all the results over the season where you can make a case for Dumbarton competing with Hearts, Hibs and Rangers. Last year Dumbarton conceded 3 or more goals in 19 of their 39 matches, including to Stranraer in the cup.

Aggregate scores over the season: Rangers 14 - Dumbarton 3 (over 5 games); Hearts 14 - Dumbarton 2 (over 4 games); Hibs 14 - Dumbarton 6 (over 5 games). So let's write those off since it was a part time club against full time teams with budgets in the top 5 of Scottish football to play with.

Queen of the South 9 - Dumbarton 1

Falkirk 7 - Dumbarton 5

Raith Rovers 8 - Dumbarton 6

Livingston 6 - Dumbarton 6

Alloa 4 - Dumbarton 5

Cowdenbeath 6 - Dumbarton 4

Where Dumbarton got their points: 1 win and 1 draw against Cowdenbeath (4 out of 12), 3 wins against Alloa (9 out of 12), 3 wins against Livingston (9 out of 12), 1 draw and 1 win against Raith Rovers (4 out of 12), 2 draws and 1 win against Falkirk (5 out of 12), 1 draw against Queen of the South (1 out of 12), zero points against Rangers, 1 point against Hibs, 1 point against Hearts.

Negatives... September was the only full month of the season where Dumbarton didn't concede 3 or more goals in 1 game, and as late as April Alloa (post- Sir Danny Lennon taking over) and Cowdenbeath both stuck 3 by them without reply.

Positives... Dumbarton generally did well in crunch games against their main rivals to avoid relegation. Over half their points for the season came in wins in 6 pointers against Alloa (pre- Sir Danny Lennon taking over) and Livingston. They were also even-stevens with Falkirk in their encounters."

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22 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

One look at their results that season show we had made a huge mistake.

 

 

10 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

From 23rd May 2015:

I have an open mind about whether Murray will be a good appointment. 

 

 

I accept you had reservations about Murray's appointment, but your attempts to rewrite history are becoming increasingly desperate, it was not obviously a "huge mistake" at the time.

 

Edited by Bud the Baker

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Ian Murray was three years ago for goodness sake.  It was a poor appointment by a board who had lost their way and has no relevance to what is occuring at Saints these days.

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7 minutes ago, scottd said:

Ian Murray was three years ago for goodness sake.  It was a poor appointment by a board who had lost their way and has no relevance to what is occuring at Saints these days.

Leave me and DOP to make fools of ourselves - it's what the forum is all about!

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3 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

Leave me and DOP to make fools of ourselves - it's what the forum is all about!

Good luck in trying to get DOP to admit any chance of error.:rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

Leave me and DOP to make fools of ourselves - it's what the forum is all about!

Should there be an "E" at the end of the highlighted bit?

Edited by stlucifer

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13 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

Should there be an "E" at the end of the highlighted bit?

Don't tempt me - but it takes two to tangle and I'm just as bad!

 

Perhaps peace is about to break out on the forum...…………...:blink:

Edited by Bud the Baker

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