How much to get rid

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

Based on the suggestion by Shull on the Celtic match thread, I deemed this worthy of its own thread.

It would be great to be able to quantify exactly how much it would cost the other 40 clubs to boot the OF out of Scottish football for good. Or more correctly start up their own league without them.

Would I be right in saying that the 3 main income streams that would be affected would be:-

Gate money

Sponsorshp

TV money

The first of those is probably the only one that is quantifiable. It’s easy to establish roughly how much we make off them and this would of course be at least partially offset by the fans of the other teams that are coming through the door and of course an assumed increase in crowds across the board given a more competitive league. Also OF gate money is not “enjoyed” by teams outside the Premiership (other than potential cup games) so this would not have a massive bearing on their decision.

The other two are much harder to gauge , other than that if we are being honest, they’re likely to be significantly lower and would have a pretty serious impact on the turnover of all clubs.

So, what to do?

I see only 3 routes...

1) Go for it. Boot the feckers out and take the financial hit with clubs having to right size themselves over a period of time and accept that we have a much more modest league set up and probably a lower standard of football going forward.

2) Increase ticket prices significantly to offset the other losses

3) Do what we’ve always done. Cow tow to the ugly sisters and feed off the scraps from their table.

Thoughts?

PS - Shame on Aberdeen FC for failing to have the balls to reshape Scottish football while Sevco were in the lower reaches. Cowardice and self preservation of the highest order. They took a punt on Sevco not coming back and it backfired big time.

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

Ah FFS. I might have started a new thread but I’ve put it in the wrong feckin forum!!!

Can this be moved?

[Callum Gilhooley]

Ah FFS. I might have started a new thread but I’ve put it in the wrong feckin forum!!!
Can this be moved?

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji106]

[pod]

Don't think we have enough cash in the bank. 

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

40 minutes ago, pod said:

Don't think we have enough cash in the bank. 

So are we disagreeing with Shull and saying that the only option for all 40 clubs it to retain the status quo, unti such time as the OF decide to go themselves and we have it forced upon us?

I’m making a big assumption with this thread I suppose. Maybe not everyone wants rid of the OF.

[pod]

2 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

So are we disagreeing with Shull and saying that the only option for all 40 clubs it to retain the status quo, unti such time as the OF decide to go themselves and we have it forced upon us?

I’m making a big assumption with this thread I suppose. Maybe not everyone wants rid of the OF.

No .   Just St.Mirren  hasn't got enough in the bank to get rid of them.  Would be delighted to see back of them.  

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

7 minutes ago, pod said:

No .   Just St.Mirren  hasn't got enough in the bank to get rid of them.  Would be delighted to see back of them.  

Well if we haven’t then I guess the vast majority (if not all) clubs in Scotland haven’t.

In all seriousness though, surely if the 40 clubs had the nuts to call their bluff and say “you can come play with us, but only if we’re getting an equal share of the pie”, then they’d have no option. They can’t play each other every week. Of course that wouldn’t mean getting rid of them, but it would be the next best thing.

[St.Ricky]

19 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

So are we disagreeing with Shull and saying that the only option for all 40 clubs it to retain the status quo, unti such time as the OF decide to go themselves and we have it forced upon us?

I’m making a big assumption with this thread I suppose. Maybe not everyone wants rid of the OF.

They will go in the next 10 years.  Sounds like a long time but it's not.  The way will be clear for Aberdeen,  Hearts and Hibs and one of the Dundee teams to be the big guns in Scottish Football. St Mirren will have an opportunity to compete for honours more regularly. Our ground size is about right.  Might need to be expanded  by filling in the corners.  If we look at stadium developments underway at Aberdeen and in Duńdee as well as recent developments at Hibs and Hearts then there is confidence and finance in the game.  The question for me would be this... Would Celtic and The Gers seek to keep a team.. Even a feeder team.. In the Scottish set up and how should we react to that suggestion. 

[faraway saint]

Celtic and Rangers will be going nowhere, old news and it's a non starter.

 

[pod]

7 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

 Would Celtic and The Gers seek to keep a team.. Even a feeder team.. In the Scottish set up and how should we react to that suggestion. 

When they f**k off.  They f**k off entirely.    Create more social housing in the deprived areas of Govan and East End  of Glasgow.

Edited September 16, 2018 by pod

[St.Ricky]

2 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Celtic and Rangers will be going nowhere, old news and it's a non starter.

 

TV money will talk F Man. Each to our own opinion. As someone who watches games on TV from other countries I thought you might feel that way. What's your argument?

[pod]

9 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

They will go in the next 10 years.  Sounds like a long time but it's not.  

Believe me, it is.  10 years to long.  

[faraway saint]

2 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

TV money will talk F Man. Each to our own opinion. As someone who watches games on TV from other countries I thought you might feel that way. What's your argument?

Two reasons, it's been thrown out as a non starter before and also the fact you think it will confirms it'll never happen. 

[St.Ricky]

2 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Two reasons, it's been thrown out as a non starter before and also the fact you think it will confirms it'll never happen. 

So your argument is to say that it wasn't allowed before. I take it then that you are thinking that they might move to England? What about Newly Created European Leagues over the next 10 years?

[stlucifer]

41 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

So your argument is to say that it wasn't allowed before. I take it then that you are thinking that they might move to England? What about Newly Created European Leagues over the next 10 years?

Given the fact the Scottish game is marginalised in the current European competitions I doubt they'd get an invite. you are under the impression that they really are big draws for the rest of Europe. News flash. They're not. AND the baggage that goes with them is not worth the hassle for the real elite of Europe. I think the only way is that mentioned earlier. The 40 teams in Scotland grow the balls to deliver the ultimatum. Play fair or don't play. 

[St.Ricky]

20 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

Given the fact the Scottish game is marginalised in the current European competitions I doubt they'd get an invite. you are under the impression that they really are big draws for the rest of Europe. News flash. They're not. AND the baggage that goes with them is not worth the hassle for the real elite of Europe. I think the only way is that mentioned earlier. The 40 teams in Scotland grow the balls to deliver the ultimatum. Play fair or don't play. 

I have travelled extensively throughout Europe and Beyond Lucy.  Whilst our Big Two are not as big box office as they think they are,  they are very widely known from Scandinavia through Western Europe,  Eastern Europe,  Southern Europe,  Middle East and in Africa but less so in Asia.  News Flash.  Lots of clubs in the countries involved have also got lots of baggage with them. The coverage on TV for these are very much sanitised versions. By the way.. Did I say they would join the Top Echelon of European Football,?  I didn't.  However all of this is hypothetical. So.. Happy to differ. 

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

1 hour ago, faraway saint said:

Two reasons, it's been thrown out as a non starter before and also the fact you think it will confirms it'll never happen. 

My thoughts exactly. I mean for a start who’d take them??!!

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

2 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

I have travelled extensively throughout Europe and Beyond Lucy.  Whilst our Big Two are not as big box office as they think they are,  they are very widely known from Scandinavia through Western Europe,  Eastern Europe,  Southern Europe,  Middle East and in Africa but less so in Asia.  News Flash.  Lots of clubs in the countries involved have also got lots of baggage with them. The coverage on TV for these are very much sanitised versions. By the way.. Did I say they would join the Top Echelon of European Football,?  I didn't.  However all of this is hypothetical. So.. Happy to differ. 

Eh? Of course they’re widely known. Steaua Bucharest and Legia Warsaw are well known in Scotland but we’re not chomping at the bit for them to come play with us are we?

[St.Ricky]

6 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

Eh? Of course they’re widely known. Steaua Bucharest and Legia Warsaw are well known in Scotland but we’re not chomping at the bit for them to come play with us are we?

You posed the question TP. Don't shoot me if you don't like my opinion,  that's all it is,  my opinion.  As for Legia Warsaw the second most  populous "Polish" city is Chicago but football doesn't have the same history or social history in the Polish Diaspora. Romania too does not have the history or reach.  .  The Scottish and Irish Diaspora is very sizeable and influential in English Speaking and Ex Colonial countries.  It's not like you to Talk Down Scotland and it's influence TP.  But.. All about opinions. 

[stlucifer]

1 hour ago, St.Ricky said:

I have travelled extensively throughout Europe and Beyond Lucy.  Whilst our Big Two are not as big box office as they think they are,  they are very widely known from Scandinavia through Western Europe,  Eastern Europe,  Southern Europe,  Middle East and in Africa but less so in Asia.  News Flash.  Lots of clubs in the countries involved have also got lots of baggage with them. The coverage on TV for these are very much sanitised versions. By the way.. Did I say they would join the Top Echelon of European Football,?  I didn't.  However all of this is hypothetical. So.. Happy to differ. 

There would be no point in them moving to a second tier setup with next to no real money PRicky. They would be a small fish in a not big enough pool,... IMO.

ETA. My job really has taken me to all parts of the globe Walter. I just don't feel the need to validate myself by broadcasting it. Oh. And I thought you didn't watch other nations football on TV. Hmmm.

Edited September 16, 2018 by stlucifer

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

59 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

You posed the question TP. Don't shoot me if you don't like my opinion,  that's all it is,  my opinion.  As for Legia Warsaw the second most  populous "Polish" city is Chicago but football doesn't have the same history or social history in the Polish Diaspora. Romania too does not have the history or reach.  .  The Scottish and Irish Diaspora is very sizeable and influential in English Speaking and Ex Colonial countries.  It's not like you to Talk Down Scotland and it's influence TP.  But.. All about opinions. 

I’m not shooting you Ricky. I’m countering your opinion. Is that allowed? Also what has the Scottish and Irish diaspora in the United States of America got to do with the territories you mentioned in your post that I previously quoted. 

And by the way, I don’t talk down Scotland. Not ever!

Edited September 16, 2018 by TPAFKA Jersey 2

[St.Ricky]

45 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

There would be no point in them moving to a second tier setup with next to no real money PRicky. They would be a small fish in a not big enough pool,... IMO.

ETA. My job really has taken me to all parts of the globe Walter. I just don't feel the need to validate myself by broadcasting it. Oh. And I thought you didn't watch other nations football on TV. Hmmm.

I'm not broadcasting anything. Simply stating my belief and reasons why I feel that way. 

The money in the top tiers would be colosal.  Dwarfing the deal for England. That's the argument I hear put forward. 

Not only do I not watch overseas games, I don't watch games from England. I have little interest in watching matches which have no relevance to my team or country. Others do...that's their choice. 

TP asked a question. I have given an opinion.  Strangely,  that's how discussion on a forum works.  

[St.Ricky]

48 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

I’m not shooting you Ricky. I’m countering your opinion. Is that allowed? Also what has the Scottish and Irish diaspora in the United States of America got to do with the territories you mentioned in your post that I previously quoted. 

And by the way, I don’t talk down Scotland. Not ever!

Of course it is TP. The market for Football on TV is growing rapidly (so I understand ) in North America and in Asia and to a lesser extent at present Africa.

I haven't researched this recently but the Scottish and Irish Diaspora amount to more than 25 million and 35 million or more.  These are huge numbers. The UK has around 10 Clubs with Irish Origins. Liverpool, Man U and both Celtic and Rangers amongst them. Marketing opportunities are high. 

Liverpool in particular have been courting both the USA and Asia markets as now are Celtic and Rangers. Bloemfontein Celtic play in the Hoops in a country of around 49 Million. 

Scotland can benefit and back to your question,  we can operate our own league structures minus the pair.

Enough from me though.

 

 

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

2 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

I have travelled extensively throughout Europe and Beyond Lucy.  Whilst our Big Two are not as big box office as they think they are,  they are very widely known from Scandinavia through Western Europe,  Eastern Europe,  Southern Europe,  Middle East and in Africa but less so in Asia.  News Flash.  Lots of clubs in the countries involved have also got lots of baggage with them. The coverage on TV for these are very much sanitised versions. By the way.. Did I say they would join the Top Echelon of European Football,?  I didn't.  However all of this is hypothetical. So.. Happy to differ. 

 

3 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Of course it is TP. The market for Football on TV is growing rapidly (so I understand ) in North America and in Asia and to a lesser extent at present Africa.

I haven't researched this recently but the Scottish and Irish Diaspora amount to more than 25 million and 35 million or more.  These are huge numbers. The UK has around 10 Clubs with Irish Origins. Liverpool, Man U and both Celtic and Rangers amongst them. Marketing opportunities are high. 

Liverpool in particular have been courting both the USA and Asia markets as now are Celtic and Rangers. Bloemfontein Celtic play in the Hoops in a country of around 49 Million. 

Scotland can benefit and back to your question,  we can operate our own league structures minus the pair.

Enough from me though.

 

 

I’m not saying there is no market in the US Ricky. I was saying you never mentioned it in your original post. See above. Hence my confusion as I don’t believe there is a particularly significant Scottish or Irish diaspora in those regions, unlike for example the US, Canada and Australia. 

[Cornwall_Saint]

The best way forward if this happened would be for the 40 other clubs to work together to develop a solid base on youth. Belgian clubs all got on board with the KBVB when they suggested change across youth. Years later we see the benefits of good, exciting football and many clubs being able to command good transfer fees for their players. Many of the attendances are less than Aberdeen, Hibs, Hearts etc, and none have the 50K+ the bigots get as there is more loyalty to local sides. But the Belgian league is 9th in the co-efficients, behind richer leagues. Excellent example for Scotland to follow whether or not this happens. It's easy to say we won't be able to attract the better players here, but if you play a part in creating them, you do yourself a big favour.