Why has the director of football failed to impress some fans?

[stlucifer]

1 hour ago, antrin said:

st Lucifer....

There ARE constraints in sourcing players, one of which is their desire to commit to an unstable team at the foot of an obscure northern football league.

all players will weigh up their options and decide once those options thin out... as time elapses.  Their decision making need not coincide with St Mirren’s needs/demands.

so I am willing to believe that Gus may have worked wonders in securing these players announced this week.

biggest flaw in you berating the assumptions of others in your post above, to my mind, is your comment, "Would we be in anymore unready if he weren't in the post"?  You are assuming we would be - EITHER “any more READY if he WERE in the post?.”, or “Would we be in any more SHIT if he weren’t in post?”

you are also assuming something...

either way( you may have edited for clarity by the time I respond...)  we just don’t know at present.

Where's the so called flaw? I never berated anyone's assumptions. In fact I went to great lengths to say the assumptions were from BOTH sides. You are the one assuming that I'm assuming anything. I'm looking at the facts as they are ATM and suggesting that, in the chairman's explanation of the need for the position, it has been a complete failure. We are definitely still trying to bring players in AFTER the start of the season. No ifs. No buts. No assumptions. The very situation the DoF role was created to prevent.

Why, with our meagre and strained resources, are we employing someone with, quite clearly, a very good level of remuneration to do a task a scout could quite easily do?

I'll tell you the one assumption I have made. 

Because it's a "job for the boy" position.

[Lord Pityme]

The one fact above all else that highlights the failure of Gus's role so far is this!

it was sold as arole to ensure continuity and stability especially if managers change, there is endless speculation that the January signings didnt come from Gus's network, but put that aside. We failed to recruit one single player until after Oran's departure.

that indicates they didnt want to sign olayers he wanted as they wanted him gone? Or they had no money to sign? So where is the continuity there?

after Goody's appointment and when again the manager wasn't bringing in anyone Goody let slip that "Gus had his own list, and that he the manager had one of his own" so again what is the point of Gus if...

A: he cant influence signings when the chairman is trying to lose a manager.

B. Any incoming manager does not have to go with players he (Gus) has identified?

as St L says... its been a failure up to this point. It would appear someone on half the wage could be more effective doing all the legwork, admin, contacts for Goody, instead of a 'Faux Director'.

it appears on the face of it Gus is no more than a Scout! Whose recommendations the manager can choose to either ignore or not?

[Wendy Saintss]

Sixth signing of the window just announced.

Well done Gus Macpherson. He’s doing a great job.

[Lord Pityme]

6 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

Sixth signing of the window just announced.

Well done Gus Macpherson. He’s doing a great job.

Yeah... with Goody's list lol!

[Wendy Saintss]

Yeah... with Goody's list lol!

Says on the main page that Gus watched him last season.

Seems it was Gus’ list.

And looks like he put in a lot of work to get him.

Well done Gus. Doing an excellent job!

[bazil85]

47 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

The one fact above all else that highlights the failure of Gus's role so far is this!

it was sold as arole to ensure continuity and stability especially if managers change, there is endless speculation that the January signings didnt come from Gus's network, but put that aside. We failed to recruit one single player until after Oran's departure.

that indicates they didnt want to sign olayers he wanted as they wanted him gone? Or they had no money to sign? So where is the continuity there?

after Goody's appointment and when again the manager wasn't bringing in anyone Goody let slip that "Gus had his own list, and that he the manager had one of his own" so again what is the point of Gus if...

A: he cant influence signings when the chairman is trying to lose a manager.

B. Any incoming manager does not have to go with players he (Gus) has identified?

as St L says... its been a failure up to this point. It would appear someone on half the wage could be more effective doing all the legwork, admin, contacts for Goody, instead of a 'Faux Director'.

it appears on the face of it Gus is no more than a Scout! Whose recommendations the manager can choose to either ignore or not?

Round in circles but more lies & spin from LPM (as per usual)

• Continuity doesn't mean the players required to improve the squad are available early in the window when we want them
• There is no credible speculation that he wasn't involved in January recruitment & it's completely contradictory to what OK said at Q&A
• It does not hint in the slightest that they wanted him gone or there was no money, purely negative scaremongering unfounded in any known information
• Gus & JG having lists of targets does not indicate anything other than they were both thinking hard on recruitment, more negative spin from a single sentence. OK also stated at Q&A Gus would be responsible in first instance for assessing his targets & other targets identified by other people at the club
• A & B are both laughable, no one at the club has ever hinted that managers would need to go with Gus signings or that was his role
• Our signings this summer for the season have been a failure based on what? The league hasn't begun, people out of desperation over this point have tried to throw Gus under the bus for professional players failing to beat opponents 3 or 4 tiers below them in the league structure
• Again according to OK at his Q&A the first stage of player recruitment will go through Gus, both players Gus identifies or others (such as OK) identifies to see if they're fit for purpose, we have absolutely no indication on his achievements in that role... Well apart from the resounding success January was. 

Don't let any of the above get in the way of your repetitive & baseless negativity though. 

[bazil85]

17 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 

Says on the main page that Gus watched him last season.

Seems it was Gus’ list.

And looks like he put in a lot of work to get him.

Well done Gus. Doing an excellent job!

 

Has someone hijacked your account? I seem to be agreeing with everything you post haha

[Wendy Saintss]

Has someone hijacked your account? I seem to be agreeing with everything you post haha

We only disagree when you are wrong! [emoji1][emoji12]

[Lord Pityme]

1 hour ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 

Says on the main page that Gus watched him last season.

Seems it was Gus’ list.

And looks like he put in a lot of work to get him.

Well done Gus. Doing an excellent job!

 

I watched Kieran Tiernay last season, can i claim my scouting fee from Arsenal?

[Wendy Saintss]

I watched Kieran Tiernay last season, can i claim my scouting fee from Arsenal?

Did Arsenal employ you to scout him?

[Lord Pityme]

2 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 

Did Arsenal employ you to scout him?

 

Was Gus employed by us when he saw him play?

[bazil85]

Just now, Lord Pityme said:

Was Gus employed by us when he saw him play?

Are you making yet more negative assumptions? Good our new German winger got international clearance eh... 

[antrin]

3 hours ago, stlucifer said:

Where's the so called flaw? I never berated anyone's assumptions. In fact I went to great lengths to say the assumptions were from BOTH sides. You are the one assuming that I'm assuming anything. I'm looking at the facts as they are ATM and suggesting that, in the chairman's explanation of the need for the position, it has been a complete failure. We are definitely still trying to bring players in AFTER the start of the season. No ifs. No buts. No assumptions. The very situation the DoF role was created to prevent.

Why, with our meagre and strained resources, are we employing someone with, quite clearly, a very good level of remuneration to do a task a scout could quite easily do?

I'll tell you the one assumption I have made. 

Because it's a "job for the boy" position.

No.  

You have stated, in the post to which I referred, that Gus had failed because his job is to have players in place before the league cup starts.  That IS an assumption.

As is the above,  "We are definitely still trying to bring players in AFTER the start of the season. No ifs. No buts. No assumptions. The very situation the DoF role was created to prevent".  An assumption in your mind but likely not in the minds of those concerned.  Gus had to sort out players that would be suitable for St Mirren.  It looks like he did so.

S McGinn was relaxed about the players scoped out to soon be coming in.  Jim Goodwin was relaxed about players that he hoped would come in.  GLS is likely happy in LV or wherever he is currently relaxing.

I offered you the likelihood  that, for whatever reason, players may be loathe to commit to St Mirren till much closer to end of the transfer windows.  You chose to ignore that.

 

Fans make daft assumptions.  St Mirren is neither a rich nor powerful club.  Aye, it has its attractions but those don't appeal to everyone.  St Mirren can't force people to join at the club's whim and bidding.

I am glad that Saints do seem to have landed several of the players Gus had lined up. 

 

[Wendy Saintss]

Was Gus employed by us when he saw him play?

Are you employed by Arsenal now?

[stlucifer]

5 minutes ago, antrin said:

No.  

You have stated, in the post to which I referred, that Gus had failed because his job is to have players in place before the league cup starts.  That IS an assumption.

As is the above,  "We are definitely still trying to bring players in AFTER the start of the season. No ifs. No buts. No assumptions. The very situation the DoF role was created to prevent".  An assumption in your mind but likely not in the minds of those concerned.  Gus had to sort out players that would be suitable for St Mirren.  It looks like he did so.

S McGinn was relaxed about the players scoped out to soon be coming in.  Jim Goodwin was relaxed about players that he hoped would come in.  GLS is likely happy in LV or wherever he is currently relaxing.

I offered you the likelihood  that, for whatever reason, players may be loathe to commit to St Mirren till much closer to end of the transfer windows.  You chose to ignore that.

 

Fans make daft assumptions.  St Mirren is neither a rich nor powerful club.  Aye, it has its attractions but those don't appeal to everyone.  St Mirren can't force people to join at the club's whim and bidding.

I am glad that Saints do seem to have landed several of the players Gus had lined up. 

 

What a collection of daft  fan assumptions.

McGinn and Goodwin would definitely come out and say, "this is a shite situation and I think Scott should get his baws kicked".

GS said that the reason for MacPherson's role was to prevent what happened when Stubbs came in and tried to get players in so quickly from scratch. WTF do you think he meant? That we could reax because Gus would sort out our Christmas wish list?

[Wendy Saintss]

Obika about to be announced as the 7th signing.

Good work from a ‘failed’ DoF.

I see that Man United are signing Harry Maguire for £80m.

That’ll be down to LPM cos he saw him play on Sky TV! [emoji1]

[antrin]

For St Lucifer

And so GS's wish has been fulfilled surely? 

These new players have not been rushed in from scratch.  They were scouted in advance.  There was no rush to have them in place for the League Cup.  But now they are here... and it's still not Xmas.  Happy days.

McGinn and Goodwin could have been more measured with their quotes but they were POSITIVE about the situation.

 

If you don't believe them, then fine - I now fully accept why you haven't believed me.

 

QED

Edited August 2, 2019 by antrin

[stlucifer]

2 hours ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 

Says on the main page that Gus watched him last season.

Seems it was Gus’ list.

And looks like he put in a lot of work to get him.

Well done Gus. Doing an excellent job!

 

Let me see. What does a scout do? Well. He SCOUTS. He watches players then recommends them to a manager who decides whether he would fit into his vision of the team. This is where we talk cross purposes. you seem to think it's ok to elevate a scouts position to make excuses for a larger salary. I prefer to call a spade a spade. There is NO need to have a DoF if all he is doing is scouting. We still need a manger to say yay or nay. And I, and I'm sure there are many who would agree, don't want to go back to the days of Gus' garbage way of setting out a team therefore I personally would hate to think this wee angry man is anywhere near our first team.

As I said. A waste of our meagre resources.

[ged62]

Let me see. What does a scout do? Well. He SCOUTS. He watches players then recommends them to a manager who decides whether he would fit into his vision of the team. This is where we talk cross purposes. you seem to think it's ok to elevate a scouts position to make excuses for a larger salary. I prefer to call a spade a spade. There is NO need to have a DoF if all he is doing is scouting. We still need a manger to say yay or nay. And I, and I'm sure there are many who would agree, don't want to go back to the days of Gus' garbage way of setting out a team therefore I personally would hate to think this wee angry man is anywhere near our first team.

As I said. A waste of our meagre resources.

You sound like an angry man[emoji35]

What makes you an expert in the way a football club is run & who they employ?

 

Just asking [emoji4]

[stlucifer]

20 minutes ago, ged62 said:

You sound like an angry man

What makes you an expert in the way a football club is run & who they employ?

 

Just asking

Not an expert. But I am looking at what is happening as opposed to what the chairman said would happen when he heralded is wee pal.

As an aside. 

Wendy Saintss used the OS statement to justify the DoF position so let's read this:

Gus [MacPherson] had watched him last season and I have contacts back in Ireland as well that we got really solid references from.

"We watched a lot of footage of him and he's tipped for big things so we are delighted to have him in the squad"

So. Gus watched the player. JG has lots of contacts in Ireland  who he consulted. (He must really trust GMs opinion), and watched lots of footage of the player and decided he would be a good fit.

Hmmmm. Gus? Glorified scout.  JG? Manager. (I wonder who's being paid the premium rate).

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by stlucifer

[Wendy Saintss]

Let me see. What does a scout do? Well. He SCOUTS. He watches players then recommends them to a manager who decides whether he would fit into his vision of the team. This is where we talk cross purposes. you seem to think it's ok to elevate a scouts position to make excuses for a larger salary. I prefer to call a spade a spade. There is NO need to have a DoF if all he is doing is scouting. We still need a manger to say yay or nay. And I, and I'm sure there are many who would agree, don't want to go back to the days of Gus' garbage way of setting out a team therefore I personally would hate to think this wee angry man is anywhere near our first team.
As I said. A waste of our meagre resources.

I haven’t elevated anyone’s position! GLS did that!

IMO Gus did a fantastic job when he was manager.

As for now, the only person whose opinion counts is GLS. You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. GLS.

As for being angry, Gus never came across as angry to me.

You appear to be the angry wee man here! [emoji1][emoji12]

[Wendy Saintss]

Not an expert. But I am looking at what is happening as opposed to what the chairman said would happen when he heralded is wee pal. As an aside.  Wendy Saintss used the OS statement to justify the DoF position

 

 

 

 I used the OS statement to dispute LPM’s assertion that McLoughlin was a signing from Goody’s list.

 

The rest of your angry wee man post is therefore irrelevant!

 

Your first sentence is the only one I agree with! [emoji1][emoji12]x

 

 

[stlucifer]

8 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 

I haven’t elevated anyone’s position! GLS did that!

IMO Gus did a fantastic job when he was manager.

As for now, the only person whose opinion counts is GLS. You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. GLS.

As for being angry, Gus never came across as angry to me.

You appear to be the angry wee man here!

 

He kept us in the top league. I never said he didn't. I did say that, to the end of his time, he came across as an angry wee man and his style of football was driving folk away.

As for me? Not angry at all. Just amazed at the number of people being duped here. isn't it convenient that, just when people are questioning the merits of a DoF we suddenly have Gus' name mentioned in relation to a signing? And even that was qualified by the manager as saying he asked his folk about the lad.

Does this mean that NONE of the rest that joined in the last two windows have had anything to do with Gus?

Edited August 2, 2019 by stlucifer

[Wendy Saintss]

He kept us in the top league. I never said he didn't. I did say that, to the end of his time, he came across as an angry wee man and his style of football was driving folk away.

As for me? Not angry at all. Just amazed at the number of people being duped here. isn't it convenient that, just when people are questioning the merits of a DoF we suddenly have Gus' name mentioned in relation to a signing? And even that was qualified by the manager as saying he asked his folk about the lad.

Does this mean that NONE of the rest that joined in the last two windows have had anything to do with Gus?

 

He didn’t just keep us in the top league, he got us there in the first place! He got us to a League Cup Final for the first time in half a century, first Scottish Cup semi in 20 years, highest league finish in quarter of a century. He got us wins over the Old Firm for the first time in decades. Biggest league win over Celtic in 100 years.

 

But you were happy with us fighting to avoid relegation to the Second Division?

 

And attendances were far higher when Gus left when he arrived.

 

As for folk being “duped”, the only person who appears to be being duped is Gordon Scott. He’s the one employed him and he’s the one who knows if he’s doing the job he’s paying him to do.

 

 

[stlucifer]

15 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 

He didn’t just keep us in the top league, he got us there in the first place! He got us to a League Cup Final for the first time in half a century, first Scottish Cup semi in 20 years, highest league finish in quarter of a century. He got us wins over the Old Firm for the first time in decades. Biggest league win over Celtic in 100 years.

 

But you were happy with us fighting to avoid relegation to the Second Division?

 

And attendances were far higher when Gus left when he arrived.

 

As for folk being “duped”, the only person who appears to be being duped is Gordon Scott. He’s the one employed him and he’s the one who knows if he’s doing the job he’s paying him to do.

 

 

Here's a wee bit of advice.

IF you're trying to talk Gus up.... DON'T TALK ABOUT A LEAGUE CUP FINAL!!!!😂