The No, No, No, Yes Campaign

[ds10]

I would like to encourage as many people as possible to vote in the current 10000Hours NewCo poll.

It would be good to see as many Saints fans as possible voting to make sure there is a completely clear message to the BOD that a NewCo should not be admitted to the SPL under any circumstances.

The more people that vote, the clearer the message will be.

Whether you agree with the wording of the questions or not, it's a great opportunity  to make sure the voices of the St. Mirren fans are heard loud and clear.

Make sure that everyone looking in will be left in no doubt, that Saints fans are prepared to do what is right, irrespective of the consequences.

Irrespective of your opinion of the CIC takeover or the NewCo situation, there is one thing in all of this which stands out like a beacon - that Saints fans are what the club can be most proud of.

And we want to make sure that we take this chance to make sure that nobody is left in any doubt that is the case.

[gbain]

Ds10, I mentioned in another thread that IMO this should not be down to the fans to vote, financially it will not affect 99.9% of the fans, however it will affect the day to day people who are employed by stmirren where they could lose their job or even their home.

If it was your job that was in danger and the risk of not being able to pay your mortgage, them I'm sure your vote would be different.

[pod]

http://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/play?p=vicar%20of%20dibley%20no%20no%20no%20yes&tnr=21&vid=4885388485853264&l=61&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fvideos%2Fthumbnail.aspx%3Fq%3D4885388485853264%26id%3D1b98c4136fed42112c6aa478893dd1be%26bid%3Dzjp4JxoJb1ydmg%26bn%3DThumb%26url%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.youtube.com%252fwatch%253fv%253dWmZ0TY0mrs4&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWmZ0TY0mrs4&sigr=11aj4g3b1&newfp=1&tit=Deal+or+no+deal+-+Jim+Trott+%28The+Vicar+of+Dibley%29

[ds10]

Ds10, I mentioned in another thread that IMO this should not be down to the fans to vote, financially it will not affect 99.9% of the fans, however it will affect the day to day people who are employed by stmirren where they could lose their job or even their home.

If it was your job that was in danger and the risk of not being able to pay your mortgage, them I'm sure your vote would be different.

Without the support of the fans there wouldn't be a club and all the employees would be without jobs anyway.

[St. Sid]

DS10 is in fact correct - at the moment there are not enough votes for this to be taken as guidance for the BoD if you treat non-voters as abstaining.

Div has displayed the %vote against votes returned rather than the total number of members polled.

[gbain]

Yes that is correct, however if it was your company that was in danger and your BOD didn't give you a say them I'm sure you would be mighty peeved off.

There are going to be no winners in this vote, the only losers will be the normal day to day staff at st mirren and other clubs.

[David Mc]

DS10 is in fact correct - at the moment there are not enough votes for this to be taken as guidance for the BoD if you treat non-voters as abstaining.

Div has displayed the %vote against votes returned rather than the total number of members polled.

You need better sources or glasses.

[ds10]

Are You another CIC Rentboy ???

As I said in the original post, this has nothing to do with the CIC, it's a chance to make sure the voices of the fans are heard loud and clear.

[gbain]

As I said in the original post, this has nothing to do with the CIC, it's a chance to make sure the voices of the fans are heard loud and clear.

Let's turn this around, when ever were fans voices heard loud and clear by the BOD's. The only time was when the team was doing bad and everyone was shouting for the managers head.

So moving forward does that mean that every financial decision made by the BOD's on a daily, weekly or monthly basis should be put out for a fans vote.

[St. Sid]

You need better sources or glasses.

Members 1038 Total Votes 695 (66.9%) Yes Votes 22 (3.2%) No Votes 673 (96.8%)

The last column is the number of no votes to question 1.

The percentage shown is a % of no votes against actual votes rather than against members invited to vote - it ignores abstentions.

Edited June 26, 2012 by St. Sid

[Eddy]

Is there any chance you two could get a room and give the rest of us peace?

Edited June 26, 2012 by Eddy

[ktf]

It is becoming fecking tedious now. Dick gets his Internet turned back on after defaulting on a payment but pawning some of his gold chains to cash converters has allowed him to pay his broadband and phone bill and come back on, this means we all need to sit through this brain-hurting pish until he is either banned or can't pay his bill again...

In the mean time, look on the bright side, R*ngers are no more and their zombie newco will not be playing our, and maybe not any, league next season - THAT is good news!!!

[Stuart Dickson]

It is becoming fecking tedious now.

Yes it has become tedious. The whole Rangers saga is tedious, the whole 10000hours thing is tedious, the whole online debate is tedious. I keep coming back to read it but it's the same old boring cycle of pro CIC and anti CIC campaigners firing the same tired shots at each other like two punch drunk footballers who've been trying to play long shots for the last 12 hours straight.

The only issue that remains for me now is to see how 10000hours interpret and react to the result of the poll on Question 4. I don't mind the deal being postponed for 12 months, but I would strongly object to my account and the account for Wishaw Wycombe Wanderers 98's being used to prop up the value of the club for the selling consortium, Any attempt to draw on the existing Direct Debit for that purpose would be a real deal breaker for me. It would be a clear indication that for all 10000hours are supposed to be a Community Interest Company, their interpretation of how a community works is vastly different from mines. There is no way anyone should be able to justify taking membership fees from community groups and charities and using it to prop up a senior professional football club who couldn't control it's profit and loss balance sheets.

[St. Sid]

So The Assumption Sid, Is That 10,000 Whores are Ramping up their Sales Pitch ????

I'm not making any assumptions, I am just pointing out that currently the vote is not high enough for 10000 Hours to take any guidance from it according to their own draft constitution.

[oaksoft]

Yes that is correct, however if it was your company that was in danger and your BOD didn't give you a say them I'm sure you would be mighty peeved off.

There are going to be no winners in this vote, the only losers will be the normal day to day staff at st mirren and other clubs.

Are you seriously suggesting that customers of a business should continue to buy a corrupt and tainted product just to save the staff?

That has to be the weirdest thing I've ever heard.

[BoWSaint]

I'm not making any assumptions, I am just pointing out that currently the vote is not high enough for 10000 Hours to take any guidance from it according to their own draft constitution.

They aren't taking a vote to pass a motion. They have merely been asked to poll their members on their views and gather comment. They have agreed to do this. There is no 75% majority needed to carry anything here or any guidance to be taken by 10000hrs based on the results. They will just deliver the results of their survey to the SMFC board and leave it at that. Even if we got 100% of members voting a resounding "no" we still coculdn't push it through.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

It’s quite funny how most moth peaces don’t post under their normal log In name

I respect Sid at least you know who he is even if you don’t agree with him

[St. Sid]

They aren't taking a vote to pass a motion. They have merely been asked to poll their members on their views and gather comment. They have agreed to do this. There is no 75% majority needed to carry anything here or any guidance to be taken by 10000hrs based on the results. They will just deliver the results of their survey to the SMFC board and leave it at that. Even if we got 100% of members voting a resounding "no" we still coculdn't push it through.

Once again you completely miss the point being made, which I made prior to this vote. The 75% majority required, even on this high profile, couldn't be clearer vote is looking difficult to progress. The influence the fans are getting in exchange for £1.5M + of debt is shit. It doesn't work. The constitution is shite, the fan empowerment is non-existent. This is supposed to be the proof of concept for the mechanism for fans to have their say - even now there still isn't a 75% majority of the overall membership voting no in Question 1.

DS10 is correct that fans need to vote, and I am correct in stating that the "fan empowerment" is shit.

[RickMcD]

Once again you completely miss the point being made, which I made prior to this vote. The 75% majority required, even on this high profile, couldn't be clearer vote is looking difficult to progress. The influence the fans are getting in exchange for £1.5M + of debt is shit. It doesn't work. The constitution is shite, the fan empowerment is non-existent. This is supposed to be the proof of concept for the mechanism for fans to have their say - even now there still isn't a 75% majority of the overall membership voting no in Question 1.

DS10 is correct that fans need to vote, and I am correct in stating that the "fan empowerment" is shit.

Sid, I really think you're making an absolute tit of yourself over this vote business. I don't know what it would take to buck you off your hobby-horse once you get going. BoWSaint spelled it out perfectly to you. The 75% figure is an absolute irrelevance in this vote and from the votes cast already it's clear where the bulk of us stand. The message being sent is absolutely emphatic. There was no column for abstentions and in any event abstentions in a democratic vote don't become nays. Abstention is just as likely to mean 'can't be arsed' or 'I'm fed up with this shit'.

The whole 10,000 hours thing is on hold. Forget it at the minute even if you are convinced fan empowerment is non-existent. Let's just get Rangers to f**k and we'll get back to the buyout soon enough.

[div]

I'm not making any assumptions, I am just pointing out that currently the vote is not high enough for 10000 Hours to take any guidance from it according to their own draft constitution.

A few points on this;

1) The vote isn't finished, the poll doesn't close until midnight tonight. Quite silly to slam the number of responses received before the vote is closed ?

2) 75% of the members have returned their votes already, despite the survey being online for less than 2 days !

3) This is holiday season, I fully expect a good few members to be away on their travels

4) This is not a resolution that is being passed - it is the members opinion that is being asked

5) In any case there is nothing in the draft articles (yet) about the number of members that need to vote in order for an instruction to be deemed representative

This is a proof of concept, you are correct in that regard, and there will be some fine tuning to be done, but the posts you have made in this thread sum up your actions of late; desperate and inconsistent.

[St. Sid]

Sid, I really think you're making an absolute tit of yourself over this vote business. I don't know what it would take to buck you off your hobby-horse once you get going. BoWSaint spelled it out perfectly to you. The 75% figure is an absolute irrelevance in this vote and from the votes cast already it's clear where the bulk of us stand. The message being sent is absolutely emphatic. There was no column for abstentions and in any event abstentions in a democratic vote don't become nays. Abstention is just as likely to mean 'can't be arsed' or 'I'm fed up with this shit'.

The whole 10,000 hours thing is on hold. Forget it at the minute even if you are convinced fan empowerment is non-existent. Let's just get Rangers to f**k and we'll get back to the buyout soon enough.

RickMcD......I disagree completey.....10000 Hours have cited the "direction" vote as being the key mechanism for fans to influence their BoD. It doesn't because it is shite. The fans own the £1.5Million debt of 10000 Hours, they do not influence the running of the club.

IF 10000 Hours does get put on hold for longer than the 2 - 3 weeks then we will have the chance to ensure that we actually have genuine fan influence. At the moment it is shit and this proof of concept has proved it's shit.

Financially it is a shambles, structurally it is a shambles.....and even worse everything about it is shifting sand with the fans the last to know about any changes made to it - despite having committed to it through direct debits before we actually know what it is, how it is funded and what the actual risk is to the club.

[St. Sid]

A f

A few points on this;

1) The vote isn't finished, the poll doesn't close until midnight tonight. Quite silly to slam the number of responses received before the vote is closed ?

2) 75% of the members have returned their votes already, despite the survey being online for less than 2 days !

3) This is holiday season, I fully expect a good few members to be away on their travels

4) This is not a resolution that is being passed - it is the members opinion that is being asked

5) In any case there is nothing in the draft articles (yet) about the number of members that need to vote in order for an instruction to be deemed representative

This is a proof of concept, you are correct in that regard, and there will be some fine tuning to be done, but the posts you have made in this thread sum up your actions of late; desperate and inconsistent.

Div, it is 10000 Hours that are desperate and inconsistent. I have nothing to be desperate or inconsistent about. I still like the idea - however, what we are being offered at the moment is shit.

You have outlined a few points above and like your vote presentation it is nicely laid out. Only problem being that the overall conclusion is wrong.

The critical point in your post is this one:

5) In any case there is nothing in the draft articles (yet) about the number of members that need to vote in order for an instruction to be deemed representative

The correct assumption to be made from that is that the draft constitution is shit.

[oaksoft]

RickMcD......I disagree completey.....10000 Hours have cited the "direction" vote as being the key mechanism for fans to influence their BoD. It doesn't because it is shite. The fans own the £1.5Million debt of 10000 Hours, they do not influence the running of the club.

IF 10000 Hours does get put on hold for longer than the 2 - 3 weeks then we will have the chance to ensure that we actually have genuine fan influence. At the moment it is shit and this proof of concept has proved it's shit.

Financially it is a shambles, structurally it is a shambles.....and even worse everything about it is shifting sand with the fans the last to know about any changes made to it - despite having committed to it through direct debits before we actually know what it is, how it is funded and what the actual risk is to the club.

Yet again you dilute a good point by pouring more negative pish onto it.

Tell you what. I'll bet you that even if the vote is under 75%, the BOD will accept that the Saints fans want NO to NewCo and will vote that way citing the fans backing.

Whoever loses has to write a poem about how humble they are and post it on here. Come on. Take me up on it.

[St. Sid]

Yet again you dilute a good point by pouring more negative pish onto it.

Tell you what. I'll bet you that even if the vote is under 75%, the BOD will accept that the Saints fans want NO to NewCo and will vote that way citing the fans backing.

Whoever loses has to write a poem about how humble they are and post it on here. Come on. Take me up on it.

And again you chose to try and steamroller valid points with fannytalk. This is not the OF debating about sectarianism......this is a St Mirren fan appealing to St Mirrens to start fighting their corner in the CIC. You can rail against that all you like, but that is what it is.

The constitution is shit, and whether you like it or not the constitution is what defines 10000 Hours and ultimately how SMFC will be run in the future if 10000 Hours bid is successful. It will also be nigh on impossible to remove 10000 Hours from the club without putting SMFC at risk.

You can be blinkered about it, or you could take the time to work out how weak the fans actually are under the current constitution and process. REA stood up at the public meeting and told everyone not to get get bogged down in the process. Why?

[RickMcD]

And again you chose to try and steamroller valid points with fannytalk. This is not the OF debating about sectarianism......this is a St Mirren fan appealing to St Mirrens to start fighting their corner in the CIC. You can rail against that all you like, but that is what it is.

The constitution is shit, and whether you like it or not the constitution is what defines 10000 Hours and ultimately how SMFC will be run in the future if 10000 Hours bid is successful. It will also be nigh on impossible to remove 10000 Hours from the club without putting SMFC at risk.

You can be blinkered about it, or you could take the time to work out how weak the fans actually are under the current constitution and process. REA stood up at the public meeting and told everyone not to get get bogged down in the process. Why?

I have plenty reservations about the 10,000 hours bid but why you are bringing it into what is an opinion poll about stuffing Newco whatsit is beyond me. You have muddied the waters plenty about the buyout but this vote has sod all to do with it. Let's get the vote out of the way. We will probably get the 75% by tonight anyway.

Whatever is going to be cobbled together for the buyout has to be good. I suspect a lot of people who have indicated they would be prepared to help Saints financially if it comes to that will do so on the basis that it is nothing to do with 10,000 hours. To give them credit, without them we wouldn't have known that so many would consider it. Whether they want to help out the directors is another matter. The consortium now look like a crowd of tossers over the Newco vote.