The Referendum Thread

[Stuart Dickson]

And the footage, we can look at that, too. When you post the link to it........

This is me not holding my breath. Again.

Is this the issue that will turn the referendum for you? You and your pals seems awfy hung up about Nigel Farage and eggs. Surely there are bigger issues like just how negative the Yes Campaign has become or the WIlliam Grant and Sons £100,000 donation to Better Together - the whisky industry putting money where it's mouth is - or Alex Salmond brazen attempt to cancel the STV Independence debate with Alastair Darling by refusing to face him on the date originally set for the debate.

Salmond used to talk about project fear but this week has seen him claim that if Scotland stays as part of the UK we'll end up out of Europe, the Barnett Formula will be affected by the NHS in England using and paying for private contractors and the Scottish NHS will be decimated. All classic scare stories, easily discounted, in speeches made without any credible evidence being provided.

[salmonbuddie]

Hey, I was agreeing with you and bringing up another example of how bad we Natsis are given the way we treated poor wee Nigel.

Maybe if you stopped lying we'd take you seriously, until then you can ram it.

[beyond our ken]

You did lie though - blatantly. - when you said this

As you have now acknowledged there has been NO CUTS in the Heathcare budget at Westminster. Indeed funding to the NHS has been ring fenced and therefore there would be no pressure on the Scottish Government to impose cuts on the devolved Scottish NHS.

I've also shown in the past that the idea of there having been "austerity cuts" is a fallacy too. In all but one department - the government one - Westminster spending has increased since the Coalition came to power. The Coalition like to talk a tough game but in reality all they have done is cut the rate of increase in spending from when Labour were in power.

Oh and if you don't want to be called a liar, don't lie. Simple really

so the cap placed on NHS pay settlements is not a cut? would the move to local pay rather than national settlements for nurses not be a cut?

Cost saving measure designed to reduce expenditure = cut in spending over whatever period it is effective in

Despite all else that you might say, not increasing payments in line with inflation and demand growth represents a cut in real terms

But maybe health is a poor example as we are discussing the semantics of comparing large cuts to freezes on expenditure below the rate of inflation or below the rate of demand growth,

talking of examples I'll admit to not expressing myself properly and even making a mistake-I apologise wholeheartedly to all of the adults on the forum and to you

Your turn now

I don't follow the example of others on this forum who actually believe that everything you post in any subject is something that you hold true-i prefer the more credible view that you are sitting in a poorly furnished hovel, in your baked-bean stained vest & pants, desperately trying to argue with strangers over the internet because if you didn't have us you'd be on your own.

Edited July 19, 2014 by beyond our ken

[Bud Bundy]

Is this the issue that will turn the referendum for you? You and your pals seems awfy hung up about Nigel Farage and eggs. Surely there are bigger issues like just how negative the Yes Campaign has become or the WIlliam Grant and Sons £100,000 donation to Better Together - the whisky industry putting money where it's mouth is - or Alex Salmond brazen attempt to cancel the STV Independence debate with Alastair Darling by refusing to face him on the date originally set for the debate.

Salmond used to talk about project fear but this week has seen him claim that if Scotland stays as part of the UK we'll end up out of Europe, the Barnett Formula will be affected by the NHS in England using and paying for private contractors and the Scottish NHS will be decimated. All classic scare stories, easily discounted, in speeches made without any credible evidence being provided.

You Aught to stay away from the Keyboard Pishy fae Wishay ! The definitive smell of Shit and |Urine reek:s from the Keyboard Banker from South Lanarkshire !

[Guest TPAFKATS]

wow! Whisky Industry donates £100k to better together, no thanks. Hang on, I thought the whisky industry was running scared of Angus Robertson the SNP MP...

I can definitely smell better together shite ????

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Factual information tells us that Salmond was quite clear when he would debate, darling's bluff was called and he made up a lie. It's the MO of BT.

[thepaisleypanda]

- or Alex Salmond brazen attempt to cancel the STV Independence debate with Alastair Darling by refusing to face him on the date originally set for the debate.

SERIOUSLY? If "I" invited "YOU" to a meeting, and it didn't suit, would you not attempt to re-negotiate an alternative appointment?

Have YOU never done that? ("Friday doesnt suit - how about Saturday?")

Is THAT how low the NO campaign arguement has got if that is your best line?

[Guest TPAFKATS]

SERIOUSLY? If "I" invited "YOU" to a meeting, and it didn't suit, would you not attempt to re-negotiate an alternative appointment?

Have YOU never done that? ("Friday doesnt suit - how about Saturday?")

Is THAT how low the NO campaign arguement has got if that is your best line?

He said he would debate Cameron on a date in July ( can't recall exact date) and if they wanted a sub instead of pm he would do that after commonwealth games.

IIRC, stv also confirmed that Salmond had not changed anything.

All pretty simple unless your a lying twat like Blair mcdougall, darling or Dickson!

[beyond our ken]

SERIOUSLY? If "I" invited "YOU" to a meeting, and it didn't suit, would you not attempt to re-negotiate an alternative appointment?

Have YOU never done that? ("Friday doesnt suit - how about Saturday?")

Is THAT how low the NO campaign arguement has got if that is your best line?

there you go, playing in to his hands

he doesnt believe it and neither should you

[chookie]

My maw stupidly stuck a "No" sticker on the back window of her car. I advised her not to.

She has so far had someone spit on the window where the sticker is, had her car scratched, been shouted whilst driving by someone in a passing car and verbally abused by someone in a passing car when she was getting out of her car in a car park.

She has now taken the sticker off. I did try to warn her.

Its a very sad state of affairs - but very much expected.

My father has a 'no thanks' sticker on his window and nothing has ever happened to him or his car. He also sports a 'no thanks' badge on his shirt/ jacket and nothing had happened to him. There are possibly hundreds of people sporting 'no thanks' on their cars/ apparel without incident. Maybe people know she is related to you?

[chookie]

Also why would both future (if it works that way) governments not want the pound to be the currency used by two countries linked by land? It would make trade far easier and cost far less. As far as England,Wales,Northern Ireland splitting with Scotland, look at the velvet separation between Slovakia and the czek republic. No issues. Easy. Oh. Sorry, no oil, hmmm. Wars around the world, Scotland being independant, common denominator? Errr oil?

[thepaisleypanda]

My maw stupidly stuck a "No" sticker on the back window of her car. I advised her not to.

She has so far had someone spit on the window where the sticker is, had her car scratched, been shouted whilst driving by someone in a passing car and verbally abused by someone in a passing car when she was getting out of her car in a car park.

She has now taken the sticker off. I did try to warn her.

Its a very sad state of affairs - but very much expected.

What's your point?

This is the referendum thread!

(Arseholes in every society - No fans / Yes fans - St Mirren / Rangers / Celtic etc etc)

Does that slightly persuade ANY undecided to vote one way or another? - I doubt it!

If you REALLY like I could post several articles about YES shops / cars etc being targeted - but, that is giving in to the hooligan element (on ALL sides!)

Let me know if you want me to?

[Stuart Dickson]

Something to ponder when speaking about wasting Scottish money, and poverty. Waste by Holyrood.

Wee eck handed out over £1BILLION of anti-poverty money in bribes for votes, and to councils to offset the effects of his flagship policy, the council tax freeze. He gave that money to them to try and hide the fact his policy was a complete FAILURE. Services are being slashed, and FORTY THOUSAND public sector staff paid off and pushed INTO POVERTY!!.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/439584/SNP-s-1bn-bribes-keeping-families-stuck-in-poverty

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/billion-pounds-cash-to-fight-poverty-disappears-1-3159791

Meanwhile, Wee eck is spending:

£700m on his new poll tax office.

£470,000 on a trip to the states to take his cronies to the open, and his wife to the pictures (£54,000 of that is still missing)

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/449254/Alex-Salmond-s-silence-on-54-000-spending-spree-at-Ryder-Cup

£326,000 for him and 3 aids to visit Tartan Week in New York last year. And he’s off again this year. And he’s been there every year for 7 years. That’s well over £2m spent on his Tartan Week jollies.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/466371/Alex-Salmond-heads-back-to-the-USA-for-another-taxpayer-funded-stateside-adventure

£26m for Gaelic road signs that less than 1% of the people of Scotland can actually read.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scottish-government-to-spend-26m-on-translating-1063845

£13m-£20m on a referendum only a minority actually wants.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-22014286

£2m for his online Gaelic dictionary.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scottish-government-provide-2m-towards-2092205

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-23448324

And don’t forget his £250 for tartan trews.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10359238/Alex-Salmonds-secrecy-battle-over-250-tartan-trews.html

On top of all that, we have the £394m extra that was given in autumn 2012,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20605757

and another £308m in the autumn statement in 2013.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25237570

He bleeted like a bairn that lost its sweetie for money from Westminster for his so-called “shovel ready projects” for years to stimulate the economy, and create jobs. He was given money for them. Has he bought said shovel yet? Has he even ordered a shovel yet? No. That money has vanished as well.

On 26/11/13, wee eck launched his separation wishlist.

During the event, a journalist asked her [sturgeon] why she didn’t start the extended childcare now, as she had the power to do so.

You would expect the excuse to be that they cant afford it, and blame Westminster yet again (yawn). Oh no, that wasn’t the case.

Her reply WAS that the extra taxes from their earnings would go to Westminster. Wee eck salmond said EXACTLY the same thing in a BBC Reporting Scotland interview with Jackie Bird that evening.

This is absolutely scandalous. They CAN help mothers back to work, but refuse to. Here’s the actual video of her [sturgeon] saying she’d rather stop women working than send taxes to Westminster.

This is EXACTLY what they were trying to doing with the bedroom tax. Wee eck was challenged by Johann Lamont to use his existing powers and legislate to mitigate the effects, and make the legislation completely ineffective in Scotland.

Wee eck laughed in her face.

Swinney’s reply was: "but that would let the Tories off the hook"

Unfortunately, Johann Lamont’s pressure in the chamber, and the press ripping YESNP apart changed this, and now YESNP mysteriously find the way to do it, and the money.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/independence-snp-able-to-scrap-bedroom-tax-now-1-3265723

And only now that it’s been all over the press, and people are starting to see YESNP for what they are, do they finally ask Westminster if they can up the money. Even if Westminster says no, there ARE still other ways. But YESNP are already discounting them. They WANT to keep the Bedroom tax.

These people actually WANT to keep people in poverty to try and get votes from them to get them out of poverty (Allegedly).

Since this story broke, they have been given (not loaned) an extra £308m in funding. That money could be used for BOTH the bedroom tax, and childcare. But it wont.

£2,500,000,000 on vanity projects, luxury foreign trips, offsetting the costs of the council tax freeze that put 40,000 oit of work, and bribes for votes. And to hell with the people of Scotland.

#snplies

#ProjectFrau

[oaksoft]

My father has a 'no thanks' sticker on his window and nothing has ever happened to him or his car. He also sports a 'no thanks' badge on his shirt/ jacket and nothing had happened to him. There are possibly hundreds of people sporting 'no thanks' on their cars/ apparel without incident. Maybe people know she is related to you?

To be fair, if anyone on here believes anything Isabella or Dickson says then frankly they need to look at themselves.

The poster above is right about Dickson too - without people on here arguing with him, he'd have nobody.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I already told him that but, you know him, he just leaves it a couple of pages and then comes out with the same shit again and hopes everyone has as short an attention span as he has.

THIS!!!

[Guest TPAFKATS]

The state broadcaster caught out "tipping off" Better Together regarding Referendum debates, just in case anyone was in doubt...

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/scotland/article1436728.ece

[Stuart Dickson]

This must have killed them to publish this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28390734

That's a strange expert opinion. After all, we've already established that the NHS in Scotland is completely devolved already. Scots do control the NHS in Scotland completely and absolutely. If the NHS in Scotland is a shambles currently then we only have ourselves to blame just as if the population of Scotland is becoming less healthy, more obese etc, etc, it's certainly not the fault of the English.

Now in contrast of course we've seen loads of health experts and scientific research people over the last few weeks stating clearly that Independence would be a disaster for the development of new treatments and new medicine through the loss of funding that is shared throughout the Union. Surely any dafty can see which argument holds most weight.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

That's a strange expert opinion. After all, we've already established that the NHS in Scotland is completely devolved already. Scots do control the NHS in Scotland completely and absolutely. If the NHS in Scotland is a shambles currently then we only have ourselves to blame just as if the population of Scotland is becoming less healthy, more obese etc, etc, it's certainly not the fault of the English.

Now in contrast of course we've seen loads of health experts and scientific research people over the last few weeks stating clearly that Independence would be a disaster for the development of new treatments and new medicine through the loss of funding that is shared throughout the Union. Surely any dafty can see which argument holds most weight.

That's a strange expert opinion. After all, we've already established that the NHS in Scotland is completely devolved already. Scots do control the NHS in Scotland completely and absolutely. If the NHS in Scotland is a shambles currently then we only have ourselves to blame just as if the population of Scotland is becoming less healthy, more obese etc, etc, it's certainly not the fault of the English.

Now in contrast of course we've seen loads of health experts and scientific research people over the last few weeks stating clearly that Independence would be a disaster for the development of new treatments and new medicine through the loss of funding that is shared throughout the Union. Surely any dafty can see which argument holds most weight.

We now know if the independence side say the sky is blue you would come on here saying it was green and that we are all colour blind Stuart

[Stuart Dickson]

I'm pretty sure that this has been gone through before - but here goes:-

It costs £x annually to implement the policy.

This lets lots of women back into the workplace who then pay £y annually in tax.

If this money goes to Westminster then £x is used out of the Scottish budget.

If the tax money goes to Holyrood then £x-y is used out the Scottish budget, which then means that the £y can be spent on other things in Scotland.

If you want to put some random numbers into it then:-

It costs £10m annually to implement the policy.

This lets lots of women back into the workplace who then pay £6m annually in tax.

If this money goes to Westminster then £10m is used out of the Scottish budget.

If the tax money goes to Holyrood then £(10-6)m (£4m) is used out the Scottish budget, which then means that the £6m can be spent on other things in Scotland.

It's quite simple really. If they implement it just now, then £10m needs to found from somewhere, if they implement it under independence then only £4m needs to be found. As I said, those are just random numbers but even someone as thick as you should be able to understand the concept.

Lets use your figures and say it would have costed £6m extra in total to implement this policy and to take thousands of families out of poverty, would that not have been a better use of taxpayers cash than spending £1Bn trying to patch up the gaps left in local government finance by the SNP policy of a Council Tax freeze? Would it not have been a better spend than the £26m wasted putting up Gaelic road signs that only 1% of Scots can read? Would it have been a better spend than the £2m spent on a Gaelic online dictionary?

Same goes for Bedroom Tax - the SNP could have done something about it if they wanted to but it was clearly more important that Alex Salmond get new trousers and that he spends £hundreds of thousands trying to look like Billy Bigtime in front of his mates.

They could have improved living standards for thousands of Scots long before now - they just couldn't be bothered.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Stuart Dickson

[Guest TPAFKATS]

It really all goes back to having control over all of your finances as opposed to getting pocket money and being allowed to spend it in certain areas and only being allowed to legislate for certain things.

The bedroom tax is a fine example - £x millions per year out of the Scottish Governments budget to mitigate a cut implemented by Westminster. The fact that Janette Krankie, sorry Johann Lamont and the labour MSP's think this is a good idea says it all. Remember this is the same group of rogues who refused to vote for free school meals.

[Stuart Dickson]

It really all goes back to having control over all of your finances as opposed to getting pocket money and being allowed to spend it in certain areas and only being allowed to legislate for certain things.

The bedroom tax is a fine example - £x millions per year out of the Scottish Governments budget to mitigate a cut implemented by Westminster. The fact that Janette Krankie, sorry Johann Lamont and the labour MSP's think this is a good idea says it all. Remember this is the same group of rogues who refused to vote for free school meals.

So again what you are saying is that putting up Gaelic road signs was more important to the SNP than mitigating the impact of the Bedroom Tax to Scottish citizens?

That's fair enough if that's your opinion. I certainly wouldn't argue with it. What I take issue with is the attempt to portray the SNP as some sort of Socialist Party, and that somehow voting Yes will see the dawn of a Scottish Socialist State.

I've said it many times over on this thread but taking money from taxpaying unskilled workers who can only dream of a salary above £25,000 per annum to pay for the University education for tomorrow's high earning doctors, lawyers, politicians and bankers is all about taking money from the poor to give to the rich. The same is absolutely true about the Free Prescription Policy the SNP implemented in office. Those on benefits were already getting free prescriptions but Alex Salmond felt the need to take taxpayers money to make sure that he, John Swinney, Nicola Sturgeon, Tom Farmer, Ann Gloag, Brian Soutar and Tom Hunter could all enjoy the same free prescriptions too. And they keep doing it too - taking money out of the NHS patient care budget to pay for the maintenance work in the car parks of these hospitals that used to be covered by parking charges and by taking money from major infrastructure projects by scrapping toll booth charges across the Erskine Bridge, Skye Bridge, Forth Road Bridge etc. Perhaps if they'd scrapped one of those silly policies the Scottish Government could have offered free nursery places years ago and mitigated the impact of the Bedroom Tax without any problem at all.

They could have helped the poor, but instead they bought Prestwick Airport and are spending £tens of millions every year just to keep it open. That says it all about Alex Salmond and the SNP.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

So again what you are saying is that putting up Gaelic road signs was more important to the SNP than mitigating the impact of the Bedroom Tax to Scottish citizens?

Blah,blah, blah nobody reads the rest of my posts as its all just regurgitated lies...

NO!

What I said was -

It really all goes back to having control over all of your finances as opposed to getting pocket money and being allowed to spend it in certain areas and only being allowed to legislate for certain things.

Considering you actually quoted my post in the same post where you misrepresented what I actually said does make you look spectacularly stupid!

Also, you just told us that they put up road signs and mitigated the bedroom tax.

Take a day off from proving your own posts wrong

[Stuart Dickson]

NO!

What I said was -

It really all goes back to having control over all of your finances as opposed to getting pocket money and being allowed to spend it in certain areas and only being allowed to legislate for certain things.

Considering you actually quoted my post in the same post where you misrepresented what I actually said does make you look spectacularly stupid!

Also, you just told us that they put up road signs and mitigated the bedroom tax.

Take a day off from proving your own posts wrong

Liar - no I didn't. T

[Stuart Dickson]

Liar - yes you did.

I never said that.

What you take issue with is people not swallowing your lies.

And you are making the same mistake again of confusing the SNP with the subject of this thread - we don't care if you have a raging hardon for wee eck, take it somewhere else, this is not the place for your sexual fantasies.

So no justification at all for wasting all that money when there was an opportunity to get people out of poverty.

The Nationalist Party of Scotland had the opportunity and the ability but they simply didn't care enough. So much for a "fairer society"

[Guest TPAFKATS]

The clunking fist that is Gordon Brown is in today's press claiming that scots wouldn't get transplants from patients in rUK following independence.

Classic project fear and an entirely baseless claim to make.