magnus Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 TC - much of what you say I can agree with, having followed the club for about as long as you have been on this earth, I have a good understanding of how things are. We are simply applying a different interpretation. That's fine. For me, there is untapped potential for this club to kick on, and its very disappointing that it hasn't been realised more effectively. As I suggested before, this is sport we are talking about, here, and all the old clichés apply. You know, be the best you can be, etc. Perhaps it is the taking part that matters, but it doesn't do any harm to have the ambition to win a bit more often. Similar vintage as you Drew. Maybe those of us that had the joy of the Sir Alex Ferguson years struggle most with this perception of under achievement. We know it's possible for Paisley to have a great team in the top echelons because we have seen it with our own eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappy coco Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) St. Mirren will not be coming straight back up... For anyone who hasn't been paying attention this season...here is how it unfolded... First...they announced THAT strip...definitely the worst in the league...probably the country...relegation strip if ever one had been invented. Then...they make the away strip even worse. Then...they sack their manager...who I think everyone at the club understands now what a relatively decent job he was doing while in charge. Then...instead of trying to take the club forward by appointing someone with a different vision...they give the job to someone who is not a manager...but a coach...this was done in order to save money on a wage...since TC was already on the payroll. Then...they realise their mistake...but instead of correcting the mistake and appointing an actual manager...they take another step back and appoint Gary Teale...who is not a manager...in fact he is not even a coach...but he is on the payroll and thus they save on another wage. Then...they sell their best player without a replacement...all of which is highly indicative of cash flow problems...not usually a sigh of a team coming straight back up. St. Mirren have won 1 home game all season...in fact...to make it sound funnier...Inverness CT and Dundee have won more games in Paisley this season...probably a few more teams with better records in Paisley as well I'll bet. The season then ends with a humiliating 5-0 thumping at Motherwell...on live Tv...confirming St. Mirren as the worst team in the worst Premiership in living memory. As for the Championship...I think the top half at least in that division would be justifiably confident of beating St. Mirren...and that is before wage cuts etc kick in next season. St. Mirren will be lucky to stay in the Championship beyond next year...At least they won the diddy cup in 2013 though... Sorry could you run that by me one more time, I thought you said diddy cup?, when was that.. No point in turning up next year we'll just wait on your end of season report, we could save ourselves a fortune here... Great idea... Edited April 9, 2015 by scrappy coco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 St. Mirren will not be coming straight back up... For anyone who hasn't been paying attention this season...here is how it unfolded... First...they announced THAT strip...definitely the worst in the league...probably the country...relegation strip if ever one had been invented. Then...they make the away strip even worse. Then...they sack their manager...who I think everyone at the club understands now what a relatively decent job he was doing while in charge. Then...instead of trying to take the club forward by appointing someone with a different vision...they give the job to someone who is not a manager...but a coach...this was done in order to save money on a wage...since TC was already on the payroll. Then...they realise their mistake...but instead of correcting the mistake and appointing an actual manager...they take another step back and appoint Gary Teale...who is not a manager...in fact he is not even a coach...but he is on the payroll and thus they save on another wage. Then...they sell their best player without a replacement...all of which is highly indicative of cash flow problems...not usually a sigh of a team coming straight back up. St. Mirren have won 1 home game all season...in fact...to make it sound funnier...Inverness CT and Dundee have won more games in Paisley this season...probably a few more teams with better records in Paisley as well I'll bet. The season then ends with a humiliating 5-0 thumping at Motherwell...on live Tv...confirming St. Mirren as the worst team in the worst Premiership in living memory. As for the Championship...I think the top half at least in that division would be justifiably confident of beating St. Mirren...and that is before wage cuts etc kick in next season. St. Mirren will be lucky to stay in the Championship beyond next year...At least they won the diddy cup in 2013 though... Danny Lennon was NOT sacked. His contract of employment, like players, had expired and he was deemed replaceable by someone to take the club in the supposed new direction. The rest is history. As for the strips, yes, they are awful but unless they have super powers it is the same quality of player wearing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss39Lavety Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Sorry could you run that by me one more time, I thought you said diddy cup?, when was that.. No Euro league = Diddy cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss39Lavety Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) Danny Lennon was NOT sacked. His contract of employment, like players, had expired and he was deemed replaceable by someone to take the club in the supposed new direction. The rest is history. As for the strips, yes, they are awful but unless they have super powers it is the same quality of player wearing it. Sacked/Contract not renewed...same thing...with all the cost cutting going on I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that the only reason they didn't terminate the contract was the cost of doing so...if the reason was any other i.e. he was the right man for the job...then why not renew the contract when it expired? Also...by new direction...I assume you mean the Championship Edited April 9, 2015 by ss39Lavety Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 St. Mirren will not be coming straight back up... For anyone who hasn't been paying attention this season...here is how it unfolded... First...they announced THAT strip...definitely the worst in the league...probably the country...relegation strip if ever one had been invented. Then...they make the away strip even worse. Then...they sack their manager...who I think everyone at the club understands now what a relatively decent job he was doing while in charge. Then...instead of trying to take the club forward by appointing someone with a different vision...they give the job to someone who is not a manager...but a coach...this was done in order to save money on a wage...since TC was already on the payroll. Then...they realise their mistake...but instead of correcting the mistake and appointing an actual manager...they take another step back and appoint Gary Teale...who is not a manager...in fact he is not even a coach...but he is on the payroll and thus they save on another wage. Then...they sell their best player without a replacement...all of which is highly indicative of cash flow problems...not usually a sigh of a team coming straight back up. St. Mirren have won 1 home game all season...in fact...to make it sound funnier...Inverness CT and Dundee have won more games in Paisley this season...probably a few more teams with better records in Paisley as well I'll bet. The season then ends with a humiliating 5-0 thumping at Motherwell...on live Tv...confirming St. Mirren as the worst team in the worst Premiership in living memory. As for the Championship...I think the top half at least in that division would be justifiably confident of beating St. Mirren...and that is before wage cuts etc kick in next season. St. Mirren will be lucky to stay in the Championship beyond next year...At least they won the diddy cup in 2013 though... Unless you have a crystal ball and see our squad (which will be largely overhauled) for next season then claiming what will happen is pure speculation at best. I would rather wait to see who will be in the squad plus who will manage us plus maybe know the position re the sale of the club. We are all hurting and cannot see the light and naturally pessimistic. However, I have been here a number of times since we went down in 60s. We are where we are and need to continue to support our team as they will be here after current Board, Manager and players have moved on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss39Lavety Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) Unless you have a crystal ball and see our squad (which will be largely overhauled) for next season then claiming what will happen is pure speculation at best. I would rather wait to see who will be in the squad plus who will manage us plus maybe know the position re the sale of the club. We are all hurting and cannot see the light and naturally pessimistic. However, I have been here a number of times since we went down in 60s. We are where we are and need to continue to support our team as they will be here after current Board, Manager and players have moved on. If St. Mirren had any intention of strengthening the squad...don't you think they would have done it in a way that preserved top flight football?...it is another more difficult thing to make a team "stronger" when you have less cash to do so. A lot of people are under the impression that some new board will come in and buy the club and everything will suddenly click into place...in reality though it's much harder to sell a Championship club than it is to sell a Premiership one... Edited April 9, 2015 by ss39Lavety Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Sacked/Contract not renewed...same thing...with all the cost cutting going on I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that the only reason they didn't terminate the contract was the cost of doing so...if the reason was any other i.e. he was the right man for the job...then why not renew the contract when it expired? Also...by new direction...I assume you mean the Championship No, sacked and no renewal of contract are not the same thing. It was a contract and it was honoured despite Danny making a number of bad decisions and the team having bad runs. Personally, many on here felt Danny had done his bit and change was needed. It was the BOD who messed up by not having a suitable replacement when Danny was told he was not having his contract renewed. They decided TC was the right man and I have no doubt they knew pretty quickly that they had made a huge mistake but did not take the necessary action until it was too late, more so by appointing a more inexperienced rookie manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 If St. Mirren had any intention of strengthening the squad...don't you think they would have done it in a way that preserved top flight football?...it is another more difficult thing to make a team "stronger" when you have less cash to do so. I agree but what we don't know is how many players were identified to strengthen the team but were offered better deals - many journeymen coming to the end of their careers - however, I agree certain key positions were not covered (centre half and decent striker). Next season will see most of the squad gone including some higher earners and wages will drop to Championship level. That allows the manager to rebuild and despite our financial situation, we will still offer decent wages compared to a lot of the other teams. The key is to have the right manager in place asap and not GT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted April 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 No Euro league = Diddy cup. Oh aye, that was the first thing I thought of on March 17th 2013 at the Final Whistle. Aw those glum faces heading back to Paisley for a Wake. SS39LAVETY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss39Lavety Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) No, sacked and no renewal of contract are not the same thing. It was a contract and it was honoured despite Danny making a number of bad decisions and the team having bad runs. Personally, many on here felt Danny had done his bit and change was needed. It was the BOD who messed up by not having a suitable replacement when Danny was told he was not having his contract renewed. They decided TC was the right man and I have no doubt they knew pretty quickly that they had made a huge mistake but did not take the necessary action until it was too late, more so by appointing a more inexperienced rookie manager. The fact that they took the cheap option...twice...in finding replacements is my reason for suspecting that DL only lasted as long as he did due to his contract termination being an expense...didn't agree with them "not renewing" his contract anyway...there was always the issue of who would replace him...the answer as it turned out...is nobody. I think the board are selling us the line that SMFC are not in debt, and are a well run club etc etc...their actions tell a different story...selling McLean was another huge indicator...as well as I believe...whoring out the strip to JD "King of Junkie suits" Sports. I see a very bleak immediate future in the Championship (at best) for St. Mirren. Edited April 9, 2015 by ss39Lavety Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted April 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 I'm away tae pick my Car up afore I pish ma breeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss39Lavety Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Just as well UEFA changed their rules in 2005 or you would be telling us the Champions League is a diddy cup. "An exception to the usual European qualification system happened in 2005, after Liverpool won the Champions League the year before, but did not finish in a Champions League qualification place in the Premier League that season. UEFA gave special dispensation for Liverpool to enter the Champions League, giving England five qualifiers.[46] UEFA subsequently ruled that the defending champions qualify for the competition the following year regardless of their domestic league placing." Why would I be saying that the Champions league is a diddy cup...you are talking about a completely different competition...not to mention a completely different set of circumstances...not to mention a change to the rules which has absolutely no relation to the point I made. If you would like me to spell it out though...the Champions league and Euro League are different competitions...i.e. they are not the same. The rule you quoted also has no relation to my point about the diddy cup...unless it is somehow up for debate whether the winners of the diddy cup should qualify for the diddy cup the following season...? Scotland gets allocated a set number of places in Eurpean competition, Champions League qualifiers/Euro league spots, which as far as I am aware they have some degree of flexibility as to how these are allocated to the teams...i.e. they can choose to award them based on league position or give them to winners of certain cup competitions etc... The point is...the League cup has (or had in 2013) no European reward attached to it...hence...diddy cup. The rules about Champions league qualification (which you so kindly researched), based on performance in the Champions League, is not even close to relevant in this particular debate about the stature/prestige of a domestic cup in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted April 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Was it a Diddy Cup we won in 1926? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss39Lavety Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Was it a Diddy Cup we won in 1926? Diddy...is a relative term...i.e. the same competition, or a similar competition can have more or less prestige depending on context...I don't know about the cup in 1926...I'd need to go research it and establish its prestige in that historical period... winning a cup is always good...don't get me wrong...beating Celtic, Aberdeen and Hearts en route was an impressive feat for St. Mirren...but my opinion is that the cup itself is (or was in 2013) relatively "diddy" in the context of that particular achievement/reward dynamic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldyOzBud Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 No Euro league = Diddy cup. Were you there? And if you were, did you celebrate? Did you have a tear in your eye? Are you a Diddy man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted April 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Were you there? And if you were, did you celebrate? Did you have a tear in your eye? Are you a Diddy man? He wisnae N/A He didnae He is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss39Lavety Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Well, considering there is no such thing as the "Euro League" (at least not in football), you are making a bit of a fool of yourself when trying to say it is different to the Champions League. Due to your error, I just assumed that you meant a place in European competition, which meant that you were saying that if you win a cup that doesn't qualify you for Europe then you have won a diddy cup. As winning the Champions League back then did not qualify you for Europe then it also should have been classed as a diddy cup, going by your post. Maybe if you had said Europa League then we could have avoided all this confusion. I could have also pointed out that winning the World Cup doesn't qualify you for European competitions. Neither does winning ... blah, blah, blah. But since your error has now been clarified, I won't bother. Wow...just...wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldyOzBud Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Wow...just...wow Indeed.. admitting that you're wrong is the first step to getting it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss39Lavety Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 (edited) Indeed.. admitting that you're wrong is the first step to getting it right. What actually happened...in case you missed it...was that instead of addressing my point about the League cup being a diddy cup, and challenging the reason why I think it's a diddy cup... someone has instead picked up on the fact I have inadvertently called the Europa League, the Euro League...and subsequently attempted to demonstrate how this invalidates my point...which it doesn't. Just for fun...lets assume I did say Europa...and not Euro...what would be the response then? what is YOUR opinion on that...would likely be "were you there?" "are you a diddy man?" etc etc? all of which is very funny of course. My opinion about the diddy cup is an opinion, I have shared why it is my opinion, if someone else thinks it's a fantastic achievement and worthy of over celebrating for the next 20 years...looking back at it from the bleak cold championship and all that...then fair enough. Edited April 11, 2015 by ss39Lavety Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldyOzBud Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 What actually happened...in case you missed it...was that instead of addressing my point about the League cup being a diddy cup, and challenging the reason why I think it's a diddy cup... someone has instead picked up on the fact I have inadvertently called the Europa League, the Euro League...and subsequently attempted to demonstrate how this invalidates my point...which it doesn't. Just for fun...lets assume I did say Europa...and not Euro...what would be the response then? what is YOUR opinion on that...would likely be "were you there?" "are you a diddy man?" etc etc? all of which is very funny of course. My opinion about the diddy cup is an opinion, I have shared why it is my opinion, if someone else thinks it's a fantastic achievement and worthy of over celebrating for the next 20 years...looking back at it from the bleak cold championship and all that...then fair enough. No I didn't miss it, I get what you're saying, I just disagree, and can't understand why any Buddie would run it down as it sounds like something an OF supporter would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss39Lavety Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 No I didn't miss it, I get what you're saying, I just disagree, and can't understand why any Buddie would run it down as it sounds like something an OF supporter would say. An OF supporter...THAT was loooooooooow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 So a national cup competition which involves all 42 spfl teams is a diddy cup ? Aye .... so it is ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss39Lavety Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 So a national cup competition which involves all 42 spfl teams is a diddy cup ? Aye .... so it is ! Relative to the other two major honours up for grabs that particular season, it was the weakest of all three, thus it was the diddy...est. The fact that no EUROPA League place was awarded to the winner is the clincher though in terms of labelling it as such...personally speaking. Why don't you tell us why you think it's NOT a diddy cup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldyOzBud Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 An OF supporter...THAT was loooooooooow! Running down a trophy win is loooooower! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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