nedflanders123 Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) Football is a business. The club should be making continual efforts to maintain their existing support base and also if possible to attract new supporters into the club. They shouldn't be relying on people showing blind faith and optimism. And assuming that everyone who walks through the door will agree with your definition of a "supporter". As you say accusations of lack of engagement have been levelled legitimately in the past. I'm not making any new accusations, I just don't see any sign that things have improved significantly or at all. It's not about the club pandering to every bleating forum post, it's about the club communicating effectively with it's fans. Which it doesn't. For example, (and there are numerous others) Blind faith and optimism goes hand in hand with supporters of a club our size. Out with that, maybe watching the bigot brothers is a better option if winning most of the time is desired. The club do not lack ambition but have made some significant bad managerial decisions that cost the club a lot of money that could have been used to bring in better quality players. The Board want out and will not go into debt to put us back to the bad old days. We have limited resources and that will have tied Murray's hands somewhat. As to the decision to appoint IM and whether he is the right man will be known in due course. Like you, I wanted a good start to the league but also knew it would take time to undo the TC cluster*ck and impact on the budget because of pay offs to players and manager. Bottom line is that IM will be assessed on results and it will be up to the current board to decide how long he gets. As for anyone staying away before the first month is out seriously needs to ask themselves if they are a supporter who only attends when the club is doing well? Edited August 31, 2015 by nedflanders123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 How rapid was there improvement under the new manager? Within four matches? The previous manager had been there for several seasons, so had been afforded every opportunity to get it right. Just saying. And under Jim McIntyre RC continued to be utter shite until good old Roy opened the cheque book at the Winter transfer window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 And under Jim McIntyre RC continued to be utter shite until good old Roy opened the cheque book at the Winter transfer window. Unfortunately we don't have an oil industry tycoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Unfortunately we don't have an oil industry tycoon. And that is the nub of the problem. Others are more fortunate but while we are suffering at the moment other clubs have debt which would likely impact deeper if relegated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 And under Jim McIntyre RC continued to be utter shite until good old Roy opened the cheque book at the Winter transfer window. Aye, though, in fairness to McIntyre, he just might have turned it round in any event, but he was always going to be given more than a handful of matches to do so. Murray has had half a dozen competitive matches, and the transfer window hasn't even closed. I'm not suggesting that there will be a marked improvement over the coming weeks, but if there is no progress, it might then be the time to start judging him. This time last year, Stubbs was getting it tight from the Hibs fans. A club with significantly greater resources to put at the manager's disposal than Saints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Unfortunately we don't have an oil industry tycoon. NAW - we have a relative of SCROGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 I am a supporter. I am supporting. I shall continue to support. I have concerns. I am expressing my concerns in a constructive manner on a discussion forum. I shall continue to express my concerns in a constructive manner on the discussion forum whilst I have some. I shall also share positives on said discussion forum as and when they arise. None of this makes me any more or less of a supporter! What are you blethering about. Did I strike a nerve or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Unfortunately we don't have an oil industry tycoon. Is it having an oil industry tycoon that makes Morton, Dumbarton and Livingston appear to be better organised, better coached, better set-up, and far more able to handle themselves and dish it out a bit than St Mirren? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds10 Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Murray has had half a dozen competitive matches, and the transfer window hasn't even closed, so there is every possibility that there may be a statement at 5pm tomorrow night confirming that the club will be doing no more business in the current window. But pointing out that threre still plenty of free agents available who can be signed outside the transfer window, so there is every possibility the club will strengthen in the near future. After a couple of weeks and a couple more painful defeats the club will (for legitimate fotballing reasons and certainly not panic buying) make its "biggest ever signing" who will go go on to "Wow the fans" with his spectacular headgear and remarkable lack of fitness......making a total of 3 appearances for the team, before heading off over the horizon..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Get your head out the sand. We have been turning in woeful performances for years now. The point I am making is that this is a direct result of the lack of ambition and lack of leadership around the club. Murray has been told that taking time to rebuild and plodding on for a year or two is fine. This is the exact same as the 90s. Every club moves a lot of players in and out every season nowadays. We, however, seem to have become the worst at it. I am far from a boo boy but those running the club need to be told enough is enough. If you aim for 11th then it should be no surprise if you finish 12th. If you aim for 5th then it is easy to come 8th or 9th. Wake up. I would say get your head out of your arse. Why are you referencing our performances going back years? Are we not talking about this season? Or have you lost it completely, as your initial post suggests? The point you were making was that you agreed with the appointment of Murray but started kneejerking yourself into oblivion after four league games. That was the point you were making. It was a horrific post, to start a horrific thread. Anyone who is calling for the new manager's head after 4 league games is showing that he should be ignored by the board of directors and the club in general. Yoiu're all over the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Would that be Ross County who fired their manager after seeing enough in the first four league games last season? Just asking! To be fair that wasn't his first 4 games in charge though. The fans didn't think McIntyre was good enough until he turned it round in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) Football is a business. The club should be making continual efforts to maintain their existing support base and also if possible to attract new supporters into the club. They shouldn't be relying on people showing blind faith and optimism. And assuming that everyone who walks through the door will agree with your definition of a "supporter". We've played 4 games in the league. Before the first one they held a Q & A for supporters. Did you miss that? What are you expecting the club to do? Give some examples, because at the moment you're demanding something you haven't quantified. As you say accusations of lack of engagement have been levelled legitimately in the past. I'm not making any new accusations, I just don't see any sign that things have improved significantly or at all. Apart from the Q & A less than 4 weeks ago? Again, what is it that you're looking for? It's not about the club pandering to every bleating forum post, it's about the club communicating effectively with it's fans. Which it doesn't. You're just saying stuff without giving any explanation of what you're after. Why are you complaining about it now? For example, (and there are numerous others) I read the post you quoted. Didn't seem to have anything to do with engagement with the fans as far as I can make out, more about lack of achievement and failing results. We've started poorly. I think a new manager deserves more time before we panic. I think the board deserve credit for bringing in a new young manager whom many were pleased with, and for supporting him by bringing in some players whom I think are good players at this level. Time will tell if it all works out - it's not an exact science. In the meantime I'll try to figure out what you're after from the club that has been prompted by a few bad results this season and demanded a thread all of its own. Edited August 31, 2015 by Soctty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 NAW - we have a relative of SCROGE Always hated Scroge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Is it having an oil industry tycoon that makes Morton, Dumbarton and Livingston appear to be better organised, better coached, better set-up, and far more able to handle themselves and dish it out a bit than St Mirren? How long are you willing to give Murray, though? I am confident that we will finish above all the teams you have referred to. Dumbarton hit the ground running and also defeated Hibs. Do you reckon they'll finish the season above them? Morton were more fired up for the match than we were (no excuse for that, of course), but didn't beat us. Livingston were pretty much as shite as we were but cheated more effectively. Again, they drew with us (in the league). I don't think four league matches is sufficient evidence upon which to judge a new manager. I agree that we've been pish so far, but, at the risk of labouring the point, it is way too early to panic and call for the manager's head, as some seem to be doing (not yourself, I appreciate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Would that be Ross County who fired their manager after seeing enough in the first four league games last season? Just asking! No, that would be Ross County who fired their manager after 3 years in charge, in second spell as manager, after 3 years in charge in an earlier stint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) How long are you willing to give Murray, though? I am confident that we will finish above all the teams you have referred to. Dumbarton hit the ground running and also defeated Hibs. Do you reckon they'll finish the season above them? Morton were more fired up for the match than we were (no excuse for that, of course), but didn't beat us. Livingston were pretty much as shite as we were but cheated more effectively. Again, they drew with us (in the league). I don't think four league matches is sufficient evidence upon which to judge a new manager. I agree that we've been pish so far, but, at the risk of labouring the point, it is way too early to panic and call for the manager's head, as some seem to be doing (not yourself, I appreciate). I'm willing to give Murray until Christmas before deciding if I rate him as a dud or not. Edit: So far, we haven't even got the new manager bounce to give us a 'WWDW' look to our statistics.... before it goes tits up and we feel that our stones have been booted. But hey, it's just football. if Gilmour & Murray oversee St Mirren going down the Dunfermline U-Bend, fcuk it. I still have my health, my family, my cat and my golf, music and photography interests. Fcuk um'. Edited August 31, 2015 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 I'm willing to give Murray until Christmas before deciding if I rate him as a dud or not. That seems reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted August 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 What would you have them do? Right now. Today. Who? The board, players and management can all do plenty. I'd certainly like to see some leadership come from the board and state that while as St Mirren fans we know things are never easy as a club we DO expect a top 4 finish. I would have the management team sat down and told in no uncertain terms that the start to the season is unacceptable. I would stop obsessing over how many "academy graduates" or "under 21s" are in the (losing/drawing) team each week, when it means guys like Morgan who clearly aren't ready being rushed in. Murray has obviously been told this his remit, but it seems ridiculous when many of the kids clearly aren't good enough (yet). For the management and players, I would end the nonsense of players who can't do anything with set plays buggering off early and only training a couple of hours per day. Seemed to work for Hearts last season. The young guys need to bulk up too if they are going to play in the Championship. Anyway, aye, now im wasting too much time on this. There are indeed more important things in life. After Saturday I wanted to have a bit of a rant, and now im getting wound up by accusation of having pished my knickers! Life goes on. Hopefully Murray gets on the phone to Gus about how to get "a reaction" from the team when the shit hits the fan and we get 3 points at the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds10 Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 I read the post you quoted. Didn't seem to have anything to do with engagement with the fans as far as I can make out, more about lack of achievement and failing results. If the club was engaging fans properly this wouldn't be happening as frequently as it does. Why are you complaining about it now? I was simply replying to an earlier post which suggested that the current state of affairs at St. Mirren was acceptable which I don't think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) That seems reasonable. Yo, ho, ho. Merry Christmas. Make mine a £100 iTunes voucher, a big Toblerone, a bottle of Woodford Reserve bourbon, and a home win.... Cheers. Edited August 31, 2015 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Who? The board, players and management can all do plenty. I'd certainly like to see some leadership come from the board and state that while as St Mirren fans we know things are never easy as a club we DO expect a top 4 finish. I would have the management team sat down and told in no uncertain terms that the start to the season is unacceptable. I would stop obsessing over how many "academy graduates" or "under 21s" are in the (losing/drawing) team each week, when it means guys like Morgan who clearly aren't ready being rushed in. Murray has obviously been told this his remit, but it seems ridiculous when many of the kids clearly aren't good enough (yet). For the management and players, I would end the nonsense of players who can't do anything with set plays buggering off early and only training a couple of hours per day. Seemed to work for Hearts last season. The young guys need to bulk up too if they are going to play in the Championship. Anyway, aye, now im wasting too much time on this. There are indeed more important things in life. After Saturday I wanted to have a bit of a rant, and now im getting wound up by accusation of having pished my knickers! Life goes on. Hopefully Murray gets on the phone to Gus about how to get "a reaction" from the team when the shit hits the fan and we get 3 points at the weekend. My question concerned the BoD, as you were taking issue specifically with them in the post I quoted. If the BoD aren't satisfied with the start to the season, I'm sure Murray will be aware of that. When have you ever heard or seen a board of directors issue a public statement about the progress of the season after just four league matches with a new manager in post? I think that would be bonkers, and completely disproportionate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 If the club was engaging fans properly this wouldn't be happening as frequently as it does. I was simply replying to an earlier post which suggested that the current state of affairs at St. Mirren was acceptable which I don't think it is. In what way? Is it the manager? The players? The board? Or is it a little early in both the season, and the new manager's reign, to be pushing the panic button? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 If the club was engaging fans properly this wouldn't be happening as frequently as it does. I was simply replying to an earlier post which suggested that the current state of affairs at St. Mirren was acceptable which I don't think it is. Fans don't decide to stay away purely on lack of engagement. It's results based more than anything else. In fact it's almost entirely results based. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) My question concerned the BoD, as you were taking issue specifically with them in the post I quoted. If the BoD aren't satisfied with the start to the season, I'm sure Murray will be aware of that. When have you ever heard or seen a board of directors issue a public statement about the progress of the season after just four league matches with a new manager in post? I think that would be bonkers, and completely disproportionate. Maybe unreasonable for the BoD to make some sort of statement about a poor start to a season under a new manager.... but how about a statement / update about the mysterious missing red away kit? How about some further reaction and feedback to the support that they are on top of the JD situation in regard to kids being let down, a faulty batch of kits, and JD generally being fcuking shit? How about making a wee statement AHEAD of a disliked club's signage going up over OUR stadium? How about not taking a year to fix the stadium signage and two plus years to updat.............. Bzzzzzz. Internet connenction hacked. Silence. Their PR / interaction with the support is nothing short of disgraceful. Edited August 31, 2015 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Maybe unreasonable for the BoD to make some sort of statement about a poor start to a season under a newe manager.... but how about a statement / update about the mysterious missing red away kit? How about some further reaction and feedback to the support that they are on top of the JD situation in regard to kids being let down, a faulty batch of kits, and JD generally being fcuking shit? How about making a wee statement AHEAD of a disliked club's signage going up over OUR stadium? How about not taking a year to fix the stadium signage and two plus years to updat.............. Bzzzzzz. Internet connention hacked. Silence. Their PR / interaction with the support is nothing short of disgraceful. You know my feelings on this kind of stuff, Paul. Couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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