All About The Money?

[oaksoft]

Yes but by borrowing money I was able to move up the housing ladder.

lol what does that even mean?

if there is actually a housing ladder then its the oddest ladder in the world because the rungs get further apart as house prices rise.

the only thing you are doing is saddling yourself with a more expensive house. its certainly not an investment. you will never get the money out because you will always need to buy another house to live in. the housing "market" is a fallacy.

[rea]

Richard as a retired Bank Manager there are many aspects of a Balance Sheet to be looked at viz:%Net Profit to Turnover Valuation relative to Floating Charge etc.From a Football Club perspective salaries should equate to max 65% of Turnover.We don't yet have figures for year ended May2015 perhaps only then can the Consortium be in a position to explore the interest from Scott/SMISA.

Indeed but I don't believe SMISA and Gordon are looking for a bank to lend money into their purchase senario...but might be wrong

[rea]

St Mirren Accounts say our Assets are nearer £10 Million - so being able to borrow some cash would not be a difficult thing.

If we keep going like we are - we will have to go to WONGA

Yes but it is basically one great big asset. It is mostly indivisible.

Banks are simply not in the mood for lending to FC'S.

They have taken a hit for millions in right downs at the likes of Killie etc

[rea]

What I am saying is most good businesses are built on borrowing. As long as you borrow what you can afford to pay back.

I was brought up in a time where you didn't buy anything unless you had the money. We even rented our TV's in those days. Borrowing money can bring benefits if the money is used wisely to say that borrowing money is wrong no matter what isn't correct. Sometimes it is wise to borrow.

Indeed but it all predicated on the company making a profit.

Smfc has not made a statutory accounting profit for a while IIRC

It is sensible for profitable companies to borrow money to allow them to grow quicker...but an unprofitable company that is also a football club is not a good place for sizable secured lending

[bluto]

lol what does that even mean?

if there is actually a housing ladder then its the oddest ladder in the world because the rungs get further apart as house prices rise.

the only thing you are doing is saddling yourself with a more expensive house. its certainly not an investment. you will never get the money out because you will always need to buy another house to live in. the housing "market" is a fallacy.

We have a pretty big Hoose, in terms of London.

Too big, now. Can't be arsed with maintaining stuff I've been maintaining for decades. Want to downsize for a lock up and leave flat so we can travel more.

What part of that is fallacious?

I could probably even buy Scotland with the change left over from buying a flat... :

[oaksoft]

We have a pretty big Hoose, in terms of London.

Too big, now. Can't be arsed with maintaining stuff I've been maintaining for decades. Want to downsize for a lock up and leave flat so we can travel more.

What part of that is fallacious?

I could probably even buy Scotland with the change left over from buying a flat... :

every man and his dog says that their house is their pension and that they will downsize.

Lets leave londond out of it because that is a basketcase.

in scotland, the average 3 bed detached in a decent area is about £150,000 or thereabouts.

so you downsize to what?

a 1 bed flat?

you will be presumably looking for a nice flat in a decent area.

that will set you back perhaps £100,000 leaving you with perhaps £40,000 when estate agency fees and legal fees are paid for.

who is going to retire on that?

I havent even started talking about supply and demand yet. the current housing boom has happened virtually overnight (20 years or so) fuelled by buy to let obsession and greed. we have many people owning more than 5 houses. because that happened overnight, and swathes of that type of person are talking about retiring on their property portfolio, there will be a massive dump of houses onto the market at roughly the same time as a wave of demand for 1bed flats. what do you reckon the impact of that will be, forgeting your own personal situation for a moment.

the housing ladder nonsense is intellectual bankruptcy which is continuing to cause misery to this dayith a generation of young people unlikely to have the chance to own without borrowing either ludicrous 6 figure sums or having to save up a huge deposit.

Edited November 3, 2015 by oaksoft

[bluto]

You are trapped in a narrow intellectual cavity. Why keep yourself inside a box? The housing ladder could be used to climb out.

You said it didn't exist. I showed that it does: moral repugnance notwithstanding. There are many places folk could downsize to, places with warmth and sun and not Scotland.

It's not just London that's the basket case... I've looked at Embra prices. It's all just about MARKETS. (And it's also not just 20 years or so, it's forever.... I first bought a flat in 1974)

The intellectual bankruptcy in your proclamation is the seeming acceptance that everyone needs to own their own homes. That is a product of Thatcherism and led to the flogging off of council housing - an eternal shame.

[stlucifer]

every man and his dog says that their house is their pension and that they will downsize.

Lets leave londond out of it because that is a basketcase.

in scotland, the average 3 bed detached in a decent area is about £150,000 or thereabouts.

so you downsize to what?

a 1 bed flat?

you will be presumably looking for a nice flat in a decent area.

that will set you back perhaps £100,000 leaving you with perhaps £40,000 when estate agency fees and legal fees are paid for.

who is going to retire on that?

I havent even started talking about supply and demand yet. the current housing boom has happened virtually overnight (20 years or so) fuelled by buy to let obsession and greed. we have many people owning more than 5 houses. because that happened overnight, and swathes of that type of person are talking about retiring on their property portfolio, there will be a massive dump of houses onto the market at roughly the same time as a wave of demand for 1bed flats. what do you reckon the impact of that will be, forgeting your own personal situation for a moment.

the housing ladder nonsense is intellectual bankruptcy which is continuing to cause misery to this dayith a generation of young people unlikely to have the chance to own without borrowing either ludicrous 6 figure sums or having to save up a huge deposit.

One thing to consider Oakie.

I have been mortgage free for the past 7 years therefore, unlike renting, I have been payment free for that time. This has allowed me to accrue extra capital which should be included in the "nest egg" scenario while my property continues to increase in value. Furthermore. I have been able to make improvements to my home which add to the value.

[Soctty]

What I am saying is most good businesses are built on borrowing. As long as you borrow what you can afford to pay back.

I was brought up in a time where you didn't buy anything unless you had the money. We even rented our TV's in those days. Borrowing money can bring benefits if the money is used wisely to say that borrowing money is wrong no matter what isn't correct. Sometimes it is wise to borrow.

Football clubs are not good businesses. They are not normally run as such. They're more like non-profit making organisations in the best cases at our level. Bad decision making has hurt us, to the extent where we have literally no wriggle room now. We must give the manager time or we're losing even more money than we lose anyway every single season.

[dr rotund]

St Mirren will not/ should not go into debt unless it's a last resort. Many clubs who lived beyond their means for years remain in the lower leagues to this day, Dunfermline for example.

[oaksoft]

You are trapped in a narrow intellectual cavity. Why keep yourself inside a box? The housing ladder could be used to climb out.

You said it didn't exist. I showed that it does: moral repugnance notwithstanding. There are many places folk could downsize to, places with warmth and sun and not Scotland.

It's not just London that's the basket case... I've looked at Embra prices. It's all just about MARKETS. (And it's also not just 20 years or so, it's forever.... I first bought a flat in 1974)

The intellectual bankruptcy in your proclamation is the seeming acceptance that everyone needs to own their own homes. That is a product of Thatcherism and led to the flogging off of council housing - an eternal shame.

At no point did I say it didn't exist auld yin.

At no point did I say that people needed to own their own homes either.

Stop twisting my words.

Maybe you should demonstrate a bit more ability to understand the written word before you throw ridiculous insults about my intelligence (which is considerable).

[oaksoft]

One thing to consider Oakie.

I have been mortgage free for the past 7 years therefore, unlike renting, I have been payment free for that time. This has allowed me to accrue extra capital which should be included in the "nest egg" scenario while my property continues to increase in value. Furthermore. I have been able to make improvements to my home which add to the value.

Good points and I'll be in the same position soon as regards being able to save money each month.

Bear in mind you'll still need a buyer at the end of the process who will pay enough for you to downsize.

The last 6 years have taught us that you simply can't guarantee that. No true market can guarantee anything.

The biggest indicator of a problem is the drastic reduction in those able to buy their first home.

What appears to be happening is that people are buying who already own their own homes.

In other words the market is self-fuelling.

That can't go on forever.

[bluto]

At no point did I say it didn't exist auld yin..

My apologies.

I thought when you said ,"the housing "market" is a fallacy."

That you regarded it as a delusion, a misconception. disnae exist... (you know, the normal meaning of 'fallacy'...)

At no point did I say that people needed to own their own homes either.

My apologies, I assumed when you said,

"so you downsize to what? a 1 bed flat?

you will be presumably looking for a nice flat in a decent area." ,

that you thought people selling their homes to downsize would NEED to buy another.

(Try as I may, I couldn't read 'renting' - or 'camping' - into that - and you never specified. Your presumption at that juncture, rejected downsizing due to budget constraints that you dreamt up. It's predicated on the need to own a home.)

Stop twisting my words.

So... I didn't.

As I've now shown, using your words

Maybe you should demonstrate a bit more ability to understand the written word before you throw ridiculous insults about my intelligence (which is considerable).

Again, the fuzzy language.

Is your intelligence considerably like Homer's or Hawking's?

Sigh.

Edited November 3, 2015 by bluto

[buddiecat]

Richard as a retired Bank Manager there are many aspects of a Balance Sheet to be looked at viz:%Net Profit to Turnover Valuation relative to Floating Charge etc.From a Football Club perspective salaries should equate to max 65% of Turnover.We don't yet have figures for year ended May2015 perhaps only then can the Consortium be in a position to explore the interest from Scott/SMISA.

Thanks MCS that might explain why there has been no agreement on a buyout as yet.

I can assure other posters that going into debt via bank loans or any other methods that put our club in debt is something that is not and cannot be part of the SMISA bid, it is based on fans and businesses providing the money, but never by way of loans.

Edited November 3, 2015 by buddiecat

[TopCat]

Thanks MCS that might explain why there has been no agreement on a buyout as yet.

I can assure other posters that going into debt via bank loans or any other methods that put our club in debt is something that is not and cannot be part of the SMISA bid, it is based on fans and businesses providing the money, but never by way of loans.

Thank goodness for that. Best of luck to the bid.