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Being A Christian

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You asked, "Why would I refer to myself as a born-again Christian?"

"Jesus replied, ‘Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.’" (John 3: 3)

As for the resurrection of Jesus... The Jewish authorities and Romans accepted the tomb he had been buried in was empty, and they knew which tomb he was buried in, and had guards protecting it. How do you explain the empty tomb, Tedious Tom?

I don't as the entire story is a work of fiction.

Explain to everyone the story of Adam and eve?

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You asked, "Why would I refer to myself as a born-again Christian?"

"Jesus replied, ‘Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.’" (John 3: 3)

As for the resurrection of Jesus... The Jewish authorities and Romans accepted the tomb he had been buried in was empty, and they knew which tomb he was buried in, and had guards protecting it. How do you explain the empty tomb, Tedious Tom?

Burke and Hare

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It's not though is it?

The number 1 rule if you go down the list of Commandments as ordered the first one is to have no other God. If you want to talk about in terms of what might be the biggest crime I guess that would be open to debate but I'd have thought murder, adultery, stealing, and coveting would all take higher priority.

Whether you meant to do it not IOBS you've opened the door for others to ridicule personal religious beliefs and quite a few took the opportunity to do so too.

Not like you to demonstrate that you know f**k all about the subject under discussion but, yep, you've done it again.

That would be Old Testament, and Jewish, not Christian. Jesus is quoted as saying, and I'm paraphrasing here, aye, OK, number 1 is still number 1, but love your neighbour as you would love yourself is more important than the rest. And it goes on to define your neighbour for you. To do otherwise, and call yourself Christian, is, imo, hypocrisy, nothing more, nothing less, and that's the crux of what IOBS is getting at.

Edited by salmonbuddie

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Hate to say this but I agree with the plumber.

If you said I know a Pakistani, Chinese, Communist, Homosexual, Irishman, Pole, Syrian etc.

You do realise that they aren't religions?

Religion is a moral/value judgement call, not an indicator of one's birth origin. In other words, you choose and/or embrace your faith (usually), not where you were born. As such, it isn't unreasonable to expect people to be answerable and accountable for their faith, while it wouldn't be in terms of their ethnic and national origin (ETA - or sexuality).

Edited by Drew

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More than a few on here displaying a knowledge and understanding of the Christian faith which explains their cynicism and sarcastic comments on less important matters.

Expand, please.

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Whilst much of the Biblical stuff is just preposterous , much of Darwinian mythology is equally preposterous -like the primordial mud , after several million years , produces a da Vinci or an Archie Gemmill, even - the mud to Man theory simply doesnae compute. .

I could be wrong but I don't think Darwin talked about primordial mud. It's not even part of Evolution, it's part of Abiogenesis, for which there is no scientific theory but plenty of scientific hypotheses (primordial mud being just one of them).

Darwin may not have been right about absolutely everything but it appears that he got all the main bits sussed. Science at the very least provides a more logical explanation for our existence than the Bible's explanation of it was all done by The Guy In The Sky.

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I could be wrong but I don't think Darwin talked about primordial mud. It's not even part of Evolution, it's part of Abiogenesis, for which there is no scientific theory but plenty of scientific hypotheses (primordial mud being just one of them).

Darwin may not have been right about absolutely everything but it appears that he got all the main bits sussed. Science at the very least provides a more logical explanation for our existence than the Bible's explanation of it was all done by The Guy In The Sky.

So why don't scientists agree among themselves about what science says about the origins of life, and why are many scientists also Christians?

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You asked, "Why would I refer to myself as a born-again Christian?"

"Jesus replied, ‘Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.’" (John 3: 3)

The phrase "Born Again Christian" really has no meaning. To be a Christian you have to be "Born Again", so why mention it?

As I said above, to be a Christian you have to be "born again", so why say you are a Born Again Christian when just saying that you are a Christian explicitly implies that you are "born again". It's adds no value whatsoever to what you are saying.

Or are you trying to say that there is a difference between a Christian and a Born Again Christian?

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Whilst much of the Biblical stuff is just preposterous , much of Darwinian mythology is equally preposterous -like the primordial mud , after several million years , produces a da Vinci or an Archie Gemmill, even - the mud to Man theory simply doesnae compute. .

I'm glad you used the word mythology. A lot of evolutionary theory is not in Darwin's work. That's not not say it's wrong but technically Darwin only ever described the process of speciation i.e dogs evolving from wolves, radial evolution of finches, pointing out the same morphology in bonestructure in vertebrates etc.

ETA Darwin remained a practising Christian right up until he died. I think the Evolution V God debate is manufactured nonsense. The one does not disprove the other.

Edited by insaintee

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Not like you to demonstrate that you know f**k all about the subject under discussion but, yep, you've done it again.

That would be Old Testament, and Jewish, not Christian. Jesus is quoted as saying, and I'm paraphrasing here, aye, OK, number 1 is still number 1, but love your neighbour as you would love yourself is more important than the rest. And it goes on to define your neighbour for you. To do otherwise, and call yourself Christian, is, imo, hypocrisy, nothing more, nothing less, and that's the crux of what IOBS is getting at.

Oh I've never claimed to know much about religion. I grew up in a religious family but as I said I turned my back on it. However in this case I used Google and found a Vatican website which listed the commandments in this order. I guess you better go tell the Pope you know more about religion than he does.....rolleyes.gif However, all you've said on here is that IOBS is wrong. According to you Jesus still thinks that having no other God is the number 1 rule.....correct?

Edited by Stuart Dickson

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So why don't scientists agree among themselves about what science says about the origins of life, and why are many scientists also Christians?

The vast majority of Scientists are not religious. The vast majority of those who are, believe in Evolution.

The whole point of science is to test ideas of what might has happened, is happening or will happen under certain circumstances. If a scientist has a hypothesis, tests it and the experimental evidence doesn't agree with their hypothesis then they change the hypothesis as the original one must be wrong. If the experimental evidence agrees with their hypothesis then they do the experiment another few hundred times to make sure that the answer is always the same. Then they say that they have found a possible reason, not the reason, a possible reason, which is why it is called a scientific Theory. Their Theory is then independently experimentally tested by others. If they agree then the Theory still stands, if they don't then the Theory is wrong and they start all over again. Most of scientific experimentation is undertaken to prove that someone else's idea (or your own idea) is wrong.

In comparison, the Biblical story of creation is, at best, a hypothesis. Any claims have never been independently tested and verified. In fact, from a scientific perspective, the idea of God himself is totally worthless as the only things worth anything in science are things that can be measured or tested.

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I'm glad you used the word mythology. A lot of evolutionary theory is not in Darwin's work. That's not not say it's wrong but technically Darwin only ever described the process of speciation i.e dogs evolving from wolves, radial evolution of finches, pointing out the same morphology in bonestructure in vertebrates etc.

ETA Darwin remained a practising Christian right up until he died. I think the Evolution V God debate is manufactured nonsense. The one does not disprove the other.

It's normally religious people you need to explain that to. Every atheist I know accepts the fact that they may be wrong and there may be a God, but until there is evidence to disprove their non belief then they will go on not believing.

I normally phrase it as "Evolution doesn't discount an intelligent designer".

It does discount biblical stories of creation, though..

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Oh I've never claimed to know much about religion. I grew up in a religious family but as I said I turned my back on it. However in this case I used Google and found a Vatican website which listed the commandments in this order. I guess you better go tell the Pope you know more about religion than he does.....rolleyes.gif However, all you've said on here is that IOBS is wrong. According to you Jesus still thinks that having no other God is the number 1 rule.....correct?

At the risk of repeating myself...f**k off, ya troll. A link to an Old Testament book?

And not according to me, according to Jesus as reported in the New Testament. Mark, iirc? It's been a long time....

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Oh I've never claimed to know much about religion. I grew up in a religious family but as I said I turned my back on it. However in this case I used Google and found a Vatican website which listed the commandments in this order. I guess you better go tell the Pope you know more about religion than he does.....rolleyes.gif However, all you've said on here is that IOBS is wrong. According to you Jesus still thinks that having no other God is the number 1 rule.....correct?

The first commandment is basically an admission that other gods exist. Why else would they be commanded to "have no other gods before me"? If God was claiming to be the only god then the first commandment would be "Go listen to that shitty Chesney Hawkes song 'cause I am the title."

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My only problem with this thread - as stated before - is why single out Christians? Is that the only religion with followers that appear to act in an "ungodly" manner? Or are we just so desperate not to be tagged "racists" that we refuse to have a go at any of the other faiths? Why do you put a higher expectation or a higher level of judgement on a Christian than you do on an atheist, or for that matter on yourself?

I agree with the general consensus of what's being said on here in so far as I was brought up in a religious family and I turned my back on it at an early age because of the hypocrisy that I saw amongst many church goers but to tar every Christian the same seems.....well almost sectarian. They clearly are not all the same, they don't deserve to be tarred as such, and indeed many of the people I know who do have "faith" do so because it comforts them in some way and so long as it's not harming me or my kids I've got no problem in that at all. What's wrong with a widow believing that at some point in the afterlife she'll be reunited with her loved one? What's wrong with a parent who has lost a child believing that the child is being cared for by other fondly remembered relatives in some cloudy afterlife? If that's what allows them some comfort, some sense of having something to live for and to look forward to then whats the problem?

I've got a cousin who is a Church of Scotland minister, my old next door neighbour is a retired Pastor. When I was growing up a close friend of my family was the Rev Stuart Lochrie - look him up - who was an incredible man. All three have been an enormously positive influence on the lives of thousands of people. I don't need to believe in a heaven, hell, a god or the devil to be able to acknowledge that and to be tolerant of their beliefs.

Well well. What an ENORMOUS surprise that you havent actually read the thread.

If you HAD you would have seen many posts talking about all organised religions.

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Not like you Stuart to miss the whole point of a thread. Here was me thinking I was attacking the moral of one individual. Then again who am I to spoil a Friday rant.

Yep it was the rest of us who jumped on organised religion in general.

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Hate to say this but I agree with the plumber.

If you said I know a Pakistani, Chinese, Communist, Homosexual, Irishman, Pole, Syrian etc. This thread would have been closed straight away and rightly so, What you have done intentionally or otherwise is attack the morals of an entire religion based on the conduct of one individual.

I'm not defending the conduct of the individual, but really the religious persuasions of the individual are not relevant.

Are you seriously saying we cant criticise organised religion?

Give us a break lol.

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