Eu Referendum

[Stuart Dickson]

Wow. That made the hair on my neck stand up.

Really? A Scottish politician begging made the hair on the back of your neck stand up? When I saw it this morning I saw it for the plea for a job that it really was. Still whatever rocks your boat.

It appears it had no effect on Donald Tusk though. He's told Sturgeon she's not getting a meeting so that that f**ked then.

[Kendo]

Scotland won't get to vote for independence or join Europe outside the UK. The reason being is the UK will remain in the EU after we have either a second referendum or a general election.

 The UK and the Tory party will bottle it. 

Edited June 29, 2016 by Kendo

[oaksoft]

2 hours ago, Kendo said:

Scotland won't get to vote for independence or join Europe outside the EU. The reason being is the UK will remain in the EU after we have either a second referendum or a general election.

 The UK and the Tory party will bottle it. 

Yes I suspect this is exactly what will happen.

[Stuart Dickson]

Scotland won't get to vote for independence or join Europe outside the UK. The reason being is the UK will remain in the EU after we have either a second referendum or a general election.

 The UK and the Tory party will bottle it. 

It will be a travesty for democracy but I suspect that's what will happen too. However I also hope whoever leads the Tory Party into this embarrassing situation will ensure that first they properly renegotiate our EU position. If we are to be the glue that holds the EU together there is no way it should be costing us as much and the whole freedom of movement issue will have to be sorted.

[Stuart Dickson]

I see the pound has continued to recover and share values have increase for the second day running. As I've said panic over.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

There will be no second refrendom on the EU too many in the Tory party want out the EU that's whey there was a refrendom in the first place. However there will be another referendum on independence

[Stuart Dickson]

There will be no second refrendom on the EU too many in the Tory party want out the EU that's whey there was a refrendom in the first place. However there will be another referendum on independence

Are you still planning to vote your way back into the EU despite being so against it a week ago?

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Are you still planning to vote your way back into the EU despite being so against it a week ago?

I'm writting down what I see as happening. Where I stand on voting I'm not sure having been told a lot of lies by the leave campaign which is quite disgusting.

[Stuart Dickson]

Just now, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

I'm writting down what I see as happening. Where I stand on voting I'm not sure having been told a lot of lies by the leave campaign which is quite disgusting.

Really? What lies? I thought your reason for voting out of Europe was that one Syrian immigrant living on your island was shagging someone you knows wife. The guys wife then left him and the Syrian didn't want to know her so you felt really sorry for the guy you knew. All this was going on despite the fact that you've regularly picked up Syrians in your car and given them a lift....the ungrateful bastards....and you felt really sorry for your hardworking mate who isn't your mate but you know what I mean....:rolleyes: 

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Really? What lies? I thought your reason for voting out of Europe was that one Syrian immigrant living on your island was shagging someone you knows wife. The guys wife then left him and the Syrian didn't want to know her so you felt really sorry for the guy you knew. All this was going on despite the fact that you've regularly picked up Syrians in your car and given them a lift....the ungrateful bastards....and you felt really sorry for your hardworking mate who isn't your mate but you know what I mean.... 

You really do write a lot of pish at times. You post where I wrote I was voting to leave because of Syrians. Go head , you can't can you. Not like the biggest proved lier on the forum to make more lies up lol.

[Stuart Dickson]

14 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

Do you mean lies like this one?

That's not a lie though is it? UK membership of the EU costs £350 million per week, or £18Bn per year before the rebate is applied and as the Vote Leave campaign said when pursued on this matter the EU has made many attempts to change the UK rebate. If you include the rebate the cost of being in the EU to the UK is just under £250m per week. When we leave - and we haven't yet - that is potentially money that could be spent elsewhere within the UK economy....perhaps even within the NHS. 

It terms of lies it's nowhere near the scale of the one the SNP told us when they released their White Paper where the costing for everything was based on oil trading at $110 per barrel. The actual price today is $48.93 per barrel and with the value of the pound slipping against the dollar that lie is even worse today that it was 2 years ago. Anyone voting Yes in 2014 would have been doing so on the basis of one of the biggest financial con tricks in recent world history. 

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by Stuart Dickson

[oaksoft]

15 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

That's not a lie though is it? UK membership of the EU costs £350 million per week, or £18Bn per year before the rebate is applied and as the Vote Leave campaign said when pursued on this matter the EU has made many attempts to change the UK rebate. If you include the rebate the cost of being in the EU to the UK is just under £250m per week. When we leave - and we haven't yet - that is potentially money that could be spent elsewhere within the UK economy....perhaps even within the NHS.

 

Absolutely. If you want to stop spending that money on science and agriculture which combined eats up another £100m of that money per week.

Then you'd need to question where we'll get the money for this shiny new borders control system we'll need.

It's as basic a lie as it gets. Ignoring the rebate is part of that lie. It is not £350 million, it has never been £350 million and I get that advice from independence economic experts who are telling us that it is a lie.

[Stuart Dickson]

59 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

You really do write a lot of pish at times. You post where I wrote I was voting to leave because of Syrians. Go head , you can't can you. Not like the biggest proved lier on the forum to make more lies up lol.

 

On 08/06/2016 at 0:42 PM, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

20 Syrian families are being moved from Campbeltown to Rothesay because they can't settle down there. Been a few problems on Bute with one local woman having a hot relashinship with a Syrian. She left her husband who I know to live with a Syrian guy half her age. The Syrian guy would not leave his wife so the woman tried to commit suicide in the Victoria toilets in Rothesay and had to be air lifted to hospital. Really feel for the husband as he is a very hard worker doing tow jobs who loves his wife. Another local is going to court because young girls are being pestered by young Syrian men with sexual gestures. The guy wrote on his face book page if any of them touched his daughter he would rip their heads off that is me putting it politely . So he will be up in court soon for racism. Word from the local hospital are not being given the resources to deal with the extra families on the Island. Quite a few of the Syrians are in the pubs and are being welcome. Have given a few a lift into town myself when I seen them at the bus stop when raining. However there are problems and now with 20 More Families Coming in locals are not too happy as the Syrians are given everything while poorer locals look on in bilwiderment.

Happy to oblige. Do you want me to go over your other posts about EU immigrants stealing your job on an Indonesian boat and taking all our jobs? 

Edited June 29, 2016 by Stuart Dickson

[Stuart Dickson]

38 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Absolutely. If you want to stop spending that money on science and agriculture which combined eats up another £100m of that money per week.

Then you'd need to question where we'll get the money for this shiny new borders control system we'll need.

It's as basic a lie as it gets. Ignoring the rebate is part of that lie. It is not £350 million, it has never been £350 million and I get that advice from independence economic experts who are telling us that it is a lie.

I got my facts from this website 

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

Show me where you get your facts from? Who is telling you that we will need a shiny new border control system? Don't we already have one? 

[Ayrshire Saints]

7 hours ago, Kendo said:

Scotland won't get to vote for independence or join Europe outside the UK. The reason being is the UK will remain in the EU after we have either a second referendum or a general election.

 The UK and the Tory party will bottle it.

Exactly where we are heading at this moment.  UK wants full access to the single market and EU says fine but that means full freedom of movement so in otherwords rather than a withdrawal it will become a re-negoatiation of our position with concessions having to be made along the line to ensure what both sides see as vital i.e. unhindered access to the single market. This will infuriate the UKIP and extreme right BREXIT voters but will appeal to some of the more progressive thinking and we will be back to where we are now, a further referendum on the terms of our "withdrawal" which by then won't really be a withdrawal at all.  Article 50 will be when the fun really starts both politicaly and financially - market volatitity now will be multiplied several times over come the start of the 2 year countdown.

[Kendo]

12 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

Exactly where we are heading at this moment.  UK wants full access to the single market and EU says fine but that means full freedom of movement so in otherwords rather than a withdrawal it will become a re-negoatiation of our position with concessions having to be made along the line to ensure what both sides see as vital i.e. unhindered access to the single market. This will infuriate the UKIP and extreme right BREXIT voters but will appeal to some of the more progressive thinking and we will be back to where we are now, a further referendum on the terms of our "withdrawal" which by then won't really be a withdrawal at all.  Article 50 will be when the fun really starts both politicaly and financially - market volatitity now will be multiplied several times over come the start of the 2 year countdown.

Spot on the money, the thing that I am looking forward to is Boris trying to sell the deal back to the UK. 

[oaksoft]

2 hours ago, Stuart Dickson said:

I got my facts from this website 

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

Show me where you get your facts from? Who is telling you that we will need a shiny new border control system? Don't we already have one? 

Reading the information right at the top of the page you linked to it says we simply do not and never have paid the £18bn per year the Leave side were claiming we pay. Divide that number by 52 and you get the £350m figure. In other words it is a lie to claim we send that much to the EU. Pure and simple.

I also said that agriculture and science gets about £100m from the EU per week. That website says agriculture gets more than £4 bn. Divide that by 52 and you get £76 million per week.

You are then looking at around £1bn to £2bn a year for science and universities which is around another £38 million a week.

Total for science and agriculture is £100m a week give or take.

That is where my figures are coming from. Now you show me figures which dispute that.

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by oaksoft

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Happy to oblige. Do you want me to go over your other posts about EU immigrants stealing your job on an Indonesian boat and taking all our jobs? 

Are you really stupid or is it plain ignorance. I will go with other. Highlight where I said I would vote to leave the EU because of Syrians. Do it lier.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Ffs, even those who were leaders in the various leave campaigns admit the 350million a week figure isn't accurate.

[Stuart Dickson]

22 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Reading the information right at the top of the page you linked to it says we simply do not and never have paid the £18bn per year the Leave side were claiming we pay. Divide that number by 52 and you get the £350m figure. In other words it is a lie to claim we send that much to the EU. Pure and simple.

I also said that agriculture and science gets about £100m from the EU per week. That website says agriculture gets more than £4 bn. Divide that by 52 and you get £76 million per week.

You are then looking at around £1bn to £2bn a year for science and universities which is around another £38 million a week.

Total for science and agriculture is £100m a week give or take.

That is where my figures are coming from. Now you show me figures which dispute that.

 

Give or take? Aye you're figures are right on the button give or take several £billion. 

Let me try to simplify this. The ticket price for UK membership to the EU is £350m. We've negotiated a discount - the rebate - which means we never actually pay the ticket price. The people running the EU don't like that the UK get a discount and every year they try to renegotiate it. Each year our local authorities, our governments, your science and education groups have to submit applications to the EU for funding. Funding requests can be confirmed or denied for any reason what so ever. None of that is guaranteed either and we have very limited control over it. 

Now what vote leave were saying is that if we come out of the EU we don't have to pay this money - the £350m ticket price with a discount that might be applied - and if we don't have to pay this money then the UK Government can decide how we want to spend it in the UK without any interference from outside influences. That may mean £350m per week being spent on the NHS, or it may mean £350m per week being spent on science and education. Or it may just mean the money gets divvied up and split round all the things we think are worthwhile in the UK. None of that is in any way factually wrong. Indeed its so obvious you wonder why anyone would agree to give someone else all their money to allow them to decide how to spend it for us in the first place - especially since the EU retain a significant proportion of this money by ways of lets call it a handling fee. 

[Stuart Dickson]

24 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Are you really stupid or is it plain ignorance. I will go with other. Highlight where I said I would vote to leave the EU because of Syrians. Do it lier.

Do you really want me to go find the post where you said - quite angrily to Oaksoft - that you voted leave because a EU Immigrant took your job on an Indonesian registered ship? Be honest about it IoBS, your reason for voting to leave the EU was based on racism, and you were absolutely adamant that leaving the EU was the right thing to do. Now you want to vote to get back into the EU, with all it's unfettered EU immigration and with all those Romanian chefs stealing your job. I would say you leave me bewildered, but thats not true. I have had many years of reading your posts and I've become used to the fact that you don't seem to be able to hold a decent line of logic for more than a few hours. 

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Do you really want me to go find the post where you said - quite angrily to Oaksoft - that you voted leave because a EU Immigrant took your job on an Indonesian registered ship? Be honest about it IoBS, your reason for voting to leave the EU was based on racism, and you were absolutely adamant that leaving the EU was the right thing to do. Now you want to vote to get back into the EU, with all it's unfettered EU immigration and with all those Romanian chefs stealing your job. I would say you leave me bewildered, but thats not true. I have had many years of reading your posts and I've become used to the fact that you don't seem to be able to hold a decent line of logic for more than a few hours. 

Back tracking again. You wrote I voted to leave because of Syrians living in Rothesay. That was the (fact ) you made and wrote on the thread. Now you know you are wrong.AND WILL NOT ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG. So what do you do ? Spend half an afternoon searching my history looking for something I did not write. No apologies from you about making up lies about me. One thing you did get right , yes I was replaced with a Romanian at less than half the cost I was. You might not agree having not experienced such a situation because you are so self centered. So I admit I am bitter on that. Not on Syrians which I am proud our great nation of Scotland volunteerd help to. So where is your appoligy lier.

[Stuart Dickson]

8 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Back tracking again. You wrote I voted to leave because of Syrians living in Rothesay. That was the (fact ) you made and wrote on the thread. Now you know you are wrong.AND WILL NOT ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG. So what do you do ? Spend half an afternoon searching my history looking for something I did not write. No apologies from you about making up lies about me. One thing you did get right , yes I was replaced with a Romanian at less than half the cost I was. You might not agree having not experienced such a situation because you are so self centered. So I admit I am bitter on that. Not on Syrians which I am proud our great nation of Scotland volunteerd help to. So where is your appoligy lier.

I've asked you many times, you voted to leave because of your anger at being replaced in your job by an EU immigrant. What has changed in the last 6 days that you now want to vote to rejoin the EU by backing Scottish Independence? 

 

[faraway saint]

This thread is bubbling along nicely. 

[shull]

10 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

I've asked you many times, you voted to leave because of your anger at being replaced in your job by an EU immigrant. What has changed in the last 6 days that you now want to vote to rejoin the EU by backing Scottish Independence? 

 

Maybe there is an EU Grant available this week for Coffee Shop set ups. 

With a free bicycle thrown in.