bazil85 Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 17 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: Is basil85 even in smisa..? i guess i might not give a toss too, if it was somebody else's money! I am indeed, signed-up the first week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 2 hours ago, bazil85 said: Yes it could, the club have already answered that if the vote is no the club will fund it but it'll come out of next seasons budget. Of which that money will contribute to. How can that money be included in next seasons budget when it's not 100% certain we'll get it?I know we'll win the League,you know we'll win the League but ask an accountant and he'll say it's not yours until you win it. That money is a bonus and should be used for the new pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 13 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: The deeper worrying issue is that around a million additional transfer money, the £50k they already got from smisa and £533k for winning the league (not to mention better recent matchday revenue) is seemingly still not enough to live within their means..? on top of that the majority shareholder wants us to give him £50k we set aside to buy his shares, and replace it (mibbaes) with our own money so we can still buy his shares..! Are you actually kidding? Did you miss the memo about what league we're playing in next season? All the money will be going into next seasons budget to give us the best possible chance to stay in a league with a lot of much bigger teams than us. It's been very well documented on the proposal, on social media and on here that this IS COMPLETELY within the clubs means but it would come out of the budget we're wanting to use next season in the SP. St Mirren like the majority of other clubs our size don't get the luxury of just sitting on money in the bank to pay stuff like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, Sonny said: You have mentioned several times about benefiting the player budget. That gives me a few concerns. 1 Is it the role of SMiSA to pay players' wages? 2 If SMiSA is playing players' wages then we are living beyond our means. 3 This had not been made clear to the members. And secondly there does not appear to be any transparency on making proposals for the £2 spend. You said you are happy for the Club to decide but its not your decision to make. How do ordinary members get to put forward a proposal that will be considered or is it only proposals that come from the Club that can be considered. Again this is not clear. 1& 2. No it's not, the role of SMISA is to move St Mirren to fan ownership, anything over and above that has a level of subjectivity. SMISA paying wages isn't living outwith our means, if they ever said no, we'd simply adjust the budget possibly at the expense of a couple of players. Living without our means would be putting the club at risk. 3. the fund is called discretionary and is at the discretion of the members vote. I'm sorry but could it get anymore clearer that the fund will be... Discretionary? Next point - You can submit fully costed plans to SMISA which has been done and has made it onto the vote before. If they think it's realistic, costly and beneficial, it would go on. There's a caveat hear though. Not all options will go the vote, there has to be a level of common sense when several options are submitted to avoid diluting votes. It would be what ones fans are most likely to be in favor of. That's why there have been pulse surveys and the likes in the past. This is where we'll always have fans taking issue. It's been shown in votes that St Mirren benefit proposals are most popular than fan comforts, you'll get the people in the minority bugged that not everyone is interested in some of the improvements you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 16 minutes ago, HSS said: How can that money be included in next seasons budget when it's not 100% certain we'll get it?I know we'll win the League,you know we'll win the League but ask an accountant and he'll say it's not yours until you win it. That money is a bonus and should be used for the new pitch. That makes very little sense. What I'm reading here is 'the money isn't guaranteed so we should spend it on the pitch.' An accountant isn't submitting our budget for review. Our next seasons budget will be fluid throughout the year based on cup performance, prize money, league performance, player sales. We'll be estimating right now because promotion is all but guaranteed. Let's take your idea though, St Mirren fully pay for the pitch, they take it off any budget they're planning for next season. The unthinkable happens and we lose our remaining games and Livi pip us for promotion. We'd then be a Championship team with £100k out our budget and a £50k loan. Sound good to you? Anyway people want to sugar coat it, us saying no to this means we have £50k less to spend on other things and SMISA keeps £50k in a bank account gathering dust. Where's the sense in that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 Bazil,can I ask who you actually are?Are you on the SMiSA Committee/Board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 That makes very little sense. What I'm reading here is 'the money isn't guaranteed so we should spend it on the pitch.' An accountant isn't submitting our budget for review. Our next seasons budget will be fluid throughout the year based on cup performance, prize money, league performance, player sales. We'll be estimating right now because promotion is all but guaranteed. Let's take your idea though, St Mirren fully pay for the pitch, they take it off any budget they're planning for next season. The unthinkable happens and we lose our remaining games and Livi pip us for promotion. We'd then be a Championship team with £100k out our budget and a £50k loan. Sound good to you? Anyway people want to sugar coat it, us saying no to this means we have £50k less to spend on other things and SMISA keeps £50k in a bank account gathering dust. Where's the sense in that? You said it so quite obviously there is NO sense in it.Nothing new there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, HSS said: Bazil,can I ask who you actually are?Are you on the SMiSA Committee/Board? He's clearly either on it or being fed by someone who is. Maybe fed, as my understanding was that we're not as well off as he makes out. Balls, no money for the women's team, "without the Morgan money, things were tight". We've also very evidently pushed the boat out on the playing budget. Edited April 6, 2018 by TsuMirren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kombibuddie Posted April 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 3. the fund is called discretionary and is at the discretion of the members vote. I'm sorry but could it get anymore clearer that the fund will be... Discretionary? The fund is called ring fenced and is not at the discretion of any vote. I am sorry but could it get anymore clearer that the fund will be...ringfenced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kombibuddie Posted April 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 The fund is called ring fenced and is not at the discretion of any vote. I am sorry but could it get anymore clearer that the fund will be...ringfenced?And from the SMISA website under Finances."Basic membership of SMISA has been set at £12 per month. Of that, £10 is ringfenced for the share purchase, and £2 goes into a pot for members to spend on club-related projects"Ringfenced for the share purchase.Is it anymore clearer than that?Case closed m'lud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Graeme Aitken said: And from the SMISA website under Finances. "Basic membership of SMISA has been set at £12 per month. Of that, £10 is ringfenced for the share purchase, and £2 goes into a pot for members to spend on club-related projects" Ringfenced for the share purchase. Is it anymore clearer than that? Case closed m'lud. Case isn’t closed. The club want to dip into that ringfenced money for something, and SMiSA are open for prising open the piggy bank for them. The piggy bank being full of their member’s monthly 10 quids, which those members thought was for purchasing the shares. At least one person on here, cannot seem to grasp the ethical issue in not only dipping into said piggy bank for anything, but are happy that, despite not even asking members first, a specific item was discussed as being the one the club want to pay for with that piggy bank money - but it’s OK, it’ll be replaced.... with member’s future monies. When you think about it, it’s admirable cheek. I wonder if it hurts. Taking it up the arse while happily smiling and not questioning just what happened there. Edited April 6, 2018 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 I wonder if it hurts. Taking it up the arse while happily smiling and not questioning just what happened there. Apparently not... Baz seems to be positively enjoying it and can't recommend it highly enough!Obviously he wasn't asked if he would LIKE to be shafted.... Just where his preference was for it to be inserted! That is consultation enough for him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc_SMFC Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 I've emailed Smisa over the matter, hopefully they respond early next week, and if they aren't releasing a proper statement regarding the decision I'll post whatever response I get. It's always going to be a hard line to tread, with the 'we want what's best for the club' against the fact the takeover is a takeover of a business and needs to be treated as much, cold and clinical. Smisa have helped out the playing squad far more than I thought they would have already with regards to balls and bibs, to the ush heating nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said: Apparently not... Baz seems to be positively enjoying it and can't recommend it highly enough! Obviously he wasn't asked if he would LIKE to be shafted.... Just where his preference was for it to be inserted! That is consultation enough for him! A lot of people’s rings are bring fenced here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 3. the fund is called discretionary and is at the discretion of the members vote. I'm sorry but could it get anymore clearer that the fund will be... Discretionary? The £2 fund yes. Agreed.The £10 fund absolutely not. No discretion whatsoever. It is RING-FENCED to purchase the shares and as such cannot be used for any other purpose.No apology. Could it get any clearer? It truly isn't difficult for anyone willing to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said: The £2 fund yes. Agreed. The £10 fund absolutely not. No discretion whatsoever. It is RING-FENCED to purchase the shares and as such cannot be used for any other purpose. No apology. Could it get any clearer? It truly isn't difficult for anyone willing to understand. Astroturf this time. Next time, could be USH needing repaired. The next time.... which is why I suggested, fcuk ‘fan ownership’ - GLS is a fan, and is doing OK. Let’s be upfront about it and pool all the £2s and £10s into one big fully disclosed discretionary fund. Put options to the vote as currently happens. This planning to dip into ring fenced monies is bollocks. Just fess’ up.... I’ll be back in, if it’s upfront. Edited April 6, 2018 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kombibuddie Posted April 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 As has been alluded to elsewhere£50K of the "ring fenced" money gets used for the astro.Livi do or don't pip us for the title & in whatever division we are in next season or seasons after that.Jack says "not doing as well as we'd hoped but remember that sports scientist SMISA used to help fund? It was great for us, anychance we can get them again"and there's not enough in the £2 pound pot but some bright sparks say "let's use the ring fenced money. It'll be alright"OrJack says "not doing as well as we'd hoped but remember them match balls SMISA used to help fund? It was great for us, anychance we can get them again"and there's not enough in the £2 pound pot but some bright sparks say "let's use the ring fenced money. It'll be alright"OrJack says "not doing as well as we'd hoped but remember them players wages SMISA used to help fund? It was great for us, anychance we can get them again"and there's not enough in the £2 pound pot but some bright sparks say "let's use the ring fenced money. It'll be alright"And at the end of the 10 year "deal/agreement" to Buy the Buds and the shareholders say to SMISA."It is time to BTB" and SMISA go to its Ring Fenced pot and find, there's not enough money to close the deal.You see, Poz wasn't happy at only buying a new set of irons.What harm to Mrs Poz' telly fund? It's only a set of irons.Poz then thought, a brand spanking new set of irons in a bag with his old woods wouldn't do.He went back to the pot that had been ringfenced for the telly. Dipped into it & bought the brand new woods too and they cost almost as much as the irons.Then he thought, that's an old putter in amongst all them new clubs. He went back to the pot that had been ringfenced for the telly. Dipped into it and bought the putter too.All the while, Poz was thinking "new irons, new woods, new putter, old bag" and Poz went back to the telly pot one last time, dipped into it and bought that lovely bag.Poz had thought, i'll repay this money each month as all it's doing is sitting there, gathering dust.She'll get the telly in the end.Poz started paying back, what he said he'd pay back to top the telly fund back up but as the months drew on, Poz couldn't keep topping it up as he didn't have it this month.One day, Mrs Poz has got her feet up and says"Poz dear, you have been making good use of your golf membership recently and we've been saving up for a new telly, I think it's time, we got that new telly. Pass me the pot please"and she opens the pot and says"where's all the f**king money"Poz never intended to spend as much as he did but once he started, he found good reason to do so repeatedly and he ended up ruining the whole telly viewing experience for the whole family.Poz had to make his own dinner that night whilst Mrs Poz reminded him, that pot was ringfenced for the telly and ringfenced meant safeguarded for it's intended purpose.Only time would tell if Mrs Poz ever gets that telly. If Poz loses his appetite to repay what he's already spent. She might not.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Graeme Aitken said: As has been alluded to elsewhere £50K of the "ring fenced" money gets used for the astro. Livi do or don't pip us for the title & in whatever division we are in next season or seasons after that. Jack says "not doing as well as we'd hoped but remember that sports scientist SMISA used to help fund? It was great for us, anychance we can get them again" and there's not enough in the £2 pound pot but some bright sparks say "let's use the ring fenced money. It'll be alright" Or Jack says "not doing as well as we'd hoped but remember them match balls SMISA used to help fund? It was great for us, anychance we can get them again" and there's not enough in the £2 pound pot but some bright sparks say "let's use the ring fenced money. It'll be alright" Or Jack says "not doing as well as we'd hoped but remember them players wages SMISA used to help fund? It was great for us, anychance we can get them again" and there's not enough in the £2 pound pot but some bright sparks say "let's use the ring fenced money. It'll be alright" And at the end of the 10 year "deal/agreement" to Buy the Buds and the shareholders say to SMISA. "It is time to BTB" and SMISA go to its Ring Fenced pot and find, there's not enough money to close the deal. You see, Poz wasn't happy at only buying a new set of irons. What harm to Mrs Poz' telly fund? It's only a set of irons. Poz then thought, a brand spanking new set of irons in a bag with his old woods wouldn't do. He went back to the pot that had been ringfenced for the telly. Dipped into it & bought the brand new woods too and they cost almost as much as the irons. Then he thought, that's an old putter in amongst all them new clubs. He went back to the pot that had been ringfenced for the telly. Dipped into it and bought the putter too. All the while, Poz was thinking "new irons, new woods, new putter, old bag" and Poz went back to the telly pot one last time, dipped into it and bought that lovely bag. Poz had thought, i'll repay this money each month as all it's doing is sitting there, gathering dust. She'll get the telly in the end. Poz started paying back, what he said he'd pay back to top the telly fund back up but as the months drew on, Poz couldn't keep topping it up as he didn't have it this month. One day, Mrs Poz has got her feet up and says "Poz dear, you have been making good use of your golf membership recently and we've been saving up for a new telly, I think it's time, we got that new telly. Pass me the pot please" and she opens the pot and says "where's all the f**king money" Poz never intended to spend as much as he did but once he started, he found good reason to do so repeatedly and he ended up ruining the whole telly viewing experience for the whole family. Poz had to make his own dinner that night whilst Mrs Poz reminded him, that pot was ringfenced for the telly and ringfenced meant safeguarded for it's intended purpose. Only time would tell if Mrs Poz ever gets that telly. If Poz loses his appetite to repay what he's already spent. She might not.. Fcuk off you cnut.... I want those clubs, I need those clubs. Now, fcuking bend over! Edited April 6, 2018 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 As has been alluded to elsewhere£50K of the "ring fenced" money gets used for the astro.Livi do or don't pip us for the title & in whatever division we are in next season or seasons after that.Jack says "not doing as well as we'd hoped but remember that sports scientist SMISA used to help fund? It was great for us, anychance we can get them again"and there's not enough in the £2 pound pot but some bright sparks say "let's use the ring fenced money. It'll be alright"OrJack says "not doing as well as we'd hoped but remember them match balls SMISA used to help fund? It was great for us, anychance we can get them again"and there's not enough in the £2 pound pot but some bright sparks say "let's use the ring fenced money. It'll be alright"OrJack says "not doing as well as we'd hoped but remember them players wages SMISA used to help fund? It was great for us, anychance we can get them again"and there's not enough in the £2 pound pot but some bright sparks say "let's use the ring fenced money. It'll be alright"And at the end of the 10 year "deal/agreement" to Buy the Buds and the shareholders say to SMISA."It is time to BTB" and SMISA go to its Ring Fenced pot and find, there's not enough money to close the deal.You see, Poz wasn't happy at only buying a new set of irons.What harm to Mrs Poz' telly fund? It's only a set of irons.Poz then thought, a brand spanking new set of irons in a bag with his old woods wouldn't do.He went back to the pot that had been ringfenced for the telly. Dipped into it & bought the brand new woods too and they cost almost as much as the irons.Then he thought, that's an old putter in amongst all them new clubs. He went back to the pot that had been ringfenced for the telly. Dipped into it and bought the putter too.All the while, Poz was thinking "new irons, new woods, new putter, old bag" and Poz went back to the telly pot one last time, dipped into it and bought that lovely bag.Poz had thought, i'll repay this money each month as all it's doing is sitting there, gathering dust.She'll get the telly in the end.Poz started paying back, what he said he'd pay back to top the telly fund back up but as the months drew on, Poz couldn't keep topping it up as he didn't have it this month.One day, Mrs Poz has got her feet up and says"Poz dear, you have been making good use of your golf membership recently and we've been saving up for a new telly, I think it's time, we got that new telly. Pass me the pot please"and she opens the pot and says"where's all the f**king money"Poz never intended to spend as much as he did but once he started, he found good reason to do so repeatedly and he ended up ruining the whole telly viewing experience for the whole family.Poz had to make his own dinner that night whilst Mrs Poz reminded him, that pot was ringfenced for the telly and ringfenced meant safeguarded for it's intended purpose.Only time would tell if Mrs Poz ever gets that telly. If Poz loses his appetite to repay what he's already spent. She might not.. Brilliant...I just can't believe you called Mrs Poz an old bag tho![emoji15] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 1 minute ago, pozbaird said: Fcuk off you cnut.... I want those clubs, I need those clubs. Now, fcuking bend over! You'll no get a big telly up there surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kombibuddie Posted April 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 Brilliant...I just can't believe you called Mrs Poz an old bag tho![emoji15] It's been years since Poz met me, he wont recognise me. I'll be ok but he'll be living in the shed if she don't get that telly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kombibuddie Posted April 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 Brilliant...I just can't believe you called Mrs Poz an old bag tho![emoji15] And another thing, you sir, are such a trouble maker.Bring a fully loaded wallet to the 1877 on the 21st [emoji16][emoji16]I'd advise not driving that day either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 Not according to the constitution. And obviously the assurances we were given; the sales pitch to sign up; the empty rhetoric on the website; the smashing PowerPoint presentation... ... All worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 the £10per month is from any plain reading of the Constitution and member offer a "restricted" fund. you cannot borrow from it or move it around. Whoever the Auditor is should be asked to give final opinion of this. if the Auditor agrees that the Fund is Restricted then case closed if not then Vote cam go right ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc_SMFC Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 Is the Asset lock the section which a laymen should look at in the constitution regarding this move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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