KIbble Damage Diary

[Rascal]

The SMFC ship has sailed through troubled waters before and no doubt will again in the future. The difference now is that there are three clear interests involved with the club as owners and/or facilitators towards the drive to become a truly community club. Take overs, for that is what happened here with the change of ownership provide an opportunity to shake the tree and see what falls out. Sadly, but unavoidably, this tends to lead to changes of direction, methods of operating and systems with the executable redundancies. Throwing blame around is easy. I am just glad that we are here, competitive and with crowds increasing. This is a good time to be a bud.

[djchapsticks]

1 hour ago, gorgo said:

Are you just ignoring the fact we are nearly £2 million in debt.

Not as much as you're blatantly ignoring facts, it seems.

£2m in debt is quite the mental gymnastics, I'll give you that.

[djchapsticks]

On 5/18/2023 at 3:09 PM, SMFC 1877 Club said:

It was because the board were concerned Mr Wardrop might have used his role as host of the 1877 club to use the mic as a platform for his agenda against Kibble influence in St.Mirren Football Club.

I'm sure the board are well out of step here and Alan would have never used the 1877 club or it's name as a platform to publicly display his hatred for the Kibble, Mr.....erm.....1877 Club.

[bazil85]

2 hours ago, gorgo said:

Are you just ignoring the fact we are nearly £2 million in debt.
Agreed £1.2 million is interest free but still equates to 1 first team player each season and we have a BOD that budgets for us finishing 7th.

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It’s the impact of Covid more than anything. It’s impacted many clubs our level. 
 

There is nothing in that, that suggests we are borderline, liquidation. 🤦‍♂️

[tlcsaint]

4 hours ago, Albanian Buddy said:

We are not £2M in debt. Last accounts showed that we had around £900K in the bank. 
I’ll dig out the accounts and post the status as of 31st May 2022. 
 

I think you will find we are in debt and net debt at that .  We have £1.8 million owed to SG.  I am a Chartered Accountant and we are in debt.

[faraway saint]

38 minutes ago, tlcsaint said:

I think you will find we are in debt and net debt at that .  We have £1.8 million owed to SG.  I am a Chartered Accountant and we are in debt.

 

Are ye, aye? 

[Albanian Buddy]

29 minutes ago, tlcsaint said:

I think you will find we are in debt and net debt at that .  We have £1.8 million owed to SG.  I am a Chartered Accountant and we are in debt.

Yes that’s fair enough.
 

I wrongly assumed that the original poster was implying that we were in debt to tune of £2million at the bank.

I don’t believe we have any lending facilities with any financial institutions. 

As I understand the club was applied for an interest free loan of £1,764,000 over 20 years. 

Payback monthly is £7,350. This is already in payment. Think it started in September 2022.

Annual payback is £88,200

The monthly payments in 5,10,15,20 years will arguably be a lesser percentage of our overall turnover once inflation does its job. 

Many of us have a mortgage but not interest free. 

I believe that we have a great deal in place with Scottish Government and it’s really not a massive concern.

As long as we continue to stay in the top league the bonuses from UEFA payments will easily cover the annual costs associated with this loan.

I’m not an accountant so apologies if I’ve misunderstood the situation or made errors in the payback model.

Bottom line is I’m not worried by this loan.
 

I don’t think the club will be either as long as this is covered before spunking money of players wages. 

 

 

[tlcsaint]

1 hour ago, Albanian Buddy said:

Yes that’s fair enough.
 

I wrongly assumed that the original poster was implying that we were in debt to tune of £2million at the bank.

I don’t believe we have any lending facilities with any financial institutions. 

As I understand the club was applied for an interest free loan of £1,764,000 over 20 years. 

Payback monthly is £7,350. This is already in payment. Think it started in September 2022.

Annual payback is £88,200

The monthly payments in 5,10,15,20 years will arguably be a lesser percentage of our overall turnover once inflation does its job. 

Many of us have a mortgage but not interest free. 

I believe that we have a great deal in place with Scottish Government and it’s really not a massive concern.

As long as we continue to stay in the top league the bonuses from UEFA payments will easily cover the annual costs associated with this loan.

I’m not an accountant so apologies if I’ve misunderstood the situation or made errors in the payback model.

Bottom line is I’m not worried by this loan.
 

I don’t think the club will be either as long as this is covered before spunking money of players wages. 

 

 

The issue is making £88k per annum profit when our position is an underlying loss with current playing budget.  This year we have only benefitted from player sales of £375k and c.£400k from Trevor Carson saving penalties v Dundee to get a lucky cup draw.

we have to make albeit in real terms a profit of over £1m over 20 years when Ckubs like us break even at best and our underlying trading is a loss. 

[gorgo]

We are not £2M in debt. Last accounts showed that we had around £900K in the bank. 
I’ll dig out the accounts and post the status as of 31st May 2022. 
 

So what do you call a loan of £1.8 million?
If that's not debt what do you call it?

You will also find the 900k in cash will be used for running the club to the end of season.

If you are going to prove someone wrong with facts then undestand the facts and not present them to aid the other person's case.

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[gorgo]

The issue is making £88k per annum profit when our position is an underlying loss with current playing budget.  This year we have only benefitted from player sales of £375k and c.£400k from Trevor Carson saving penalties v Dundee to get a lucky cup draw.
we have to make albeit in real terms a profit of over £1m over 20 years when Ckubs like us break even at best and our underlying trading is a loss. 

Did Needham not say when the accounts were published they had a plan?

No mention of a plan has seen the light yet.

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[faraway saint]

31 minutes ago, tlcsaint said:

The issue is making £88k per annum profit when our position is an underlying loss with current playing budget.  This year we have only benefitted from player sales of £375k and c.£400k from Trevor Carson saving penalties v Dundee to get a lucky cup draw.

we have to make albeit in real terms a profit of over £1m over 20 years when Ckubs like us break even at best and our underlying trading is a loss. 

Don't you accountants understand football?

Let me try to explain, a goalkeeper tries to save penalties against a player who is trying to score. 

How that turns out is just part of football.

As for a lucky cup draw, I would have preferred to have been in ICT's position to get to the final.

I despair at the continual attempts to put our season down to luck or other teams getting us to where we are. 

[faraway saint]

2 minutes ago, gorgo said:

Did Needham not say when the accounts were published they had a plan?

No mention of a plan has seen the light yet.

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Do you really expect Needham to send you the plan or make it public?

It's a business, naming every detail is NOT the normal approach.

You need to get out more.

Oh, what, exactly, are you, and the rest of the lynch mob, looking for in trying to cause St Mirren football club as much grief as you can muster? 

 

 

[Albanian Buddy]

13 minutes ago, gorgo said:

So what do you call a loan of £1.8 million?
If that's not debt what do you call it?

You will also find the 900k in cash will be used for running the club to the end of season.

If you are going to prove someone wrong with facts then undestand the facts and not present them to aid the other person's case.

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Of course it’s debt but the point I’m making is that we have over £900,000 in the bank.
The 20 year interest free Covid loan is relatively easy to service as I’ve broken down on a monthly repayment basis.

Would you honestly have any preferred the club never received that loan? As I understand the club had to indicate quite clearly that these costs were incurred as a result of the pandemic on the application. 

The feedback supplied by @billyg from the SMISA AGM was that the chairman said we were on target to deliver a profit (likely before depreciation) on the accounts for year end May 2023. 

So that would indicate to me that we would still have a few quid in the bank.

Or are you saying that come the published accounts for year end 2023 that our bank balance will be zero or less?

Please confirm what your projections will be as I certainly don’t have a crystal ball. I also don’t have access to the financial details of the club accounts that you appear to have given you are saying all the money at the bank will be used up before 31st May 2023.

Safe to assume that the prize money for the top 6 league placing and the European monies for this season will not form part of that accounting period. That will be included in accounts for year end May 2024. 

 

[gorgo]

Do you really expect Needham to send you the plan or make it public?
It's a business, naming every detail is NOT the normal approach.
You need to get out more.
Oh, what, exactly, are you, and the rest of the lynch mob, looking for in trying to cause St Mirren football club as much grief as you can muster? 
 
 

I'm not out to cause any grief
All I'm pointing out is that we are a club that plans to break even. Our record of selling players for a big profit is not great.
I would have expected him to say this is how we will generate additional revenue which will service the debt and not affect the first team or academy budgets.

Your obviously a SMISA member who supports the kibble partnership and believes john Needham is the right person to take us forward

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[Albanian Buddy]

1 hour ago, tlcsaint said:

The issue is making £88k per annum profit when our position is an underlying loss with current playing budget.  This year we have only benefitted from player sales of £375k and c.£400k from Trevor Carson saving penalties v Dundee to get a lucky cup draw.

we have to make albeit in real terms a profit of over £1m over 20 years when Ckubs like us break even at best and our underlying trading is a loss. 

We obviously need to pay down these loans. If that means reducing the player budget accordingly then I’m totally fine with that. 
No argument from me on making the club profitable every season.

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, gorgo said:

Your obviously a SMISA member who supports the kibble partnership and believes john Needham is the right person to take us forward

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You're obviously a very bad judge of people. 

[gorgo]

Of course it’s debt but the point I’m making is that we have over £900,000 in the bank.
The 20 year interest free Covid loan is relatively easy to service as I’ve broken down on a monthly repayment basis.
Would you honestly have any preferred the club never received that loan? As I understand the club had to indicate quite clearly that these costs were incurred as a result of the pandemic on the application. 
The feedback supplied by [mention=53]billyg[/mention] from the SMISA AGM was that the chairman said we were on target to deliver a profit (likely before depreciation) on the accounts for year end May 2023. 
So that would indicate to me that we would still have a few quid in the bank.
Or are you saying that come the published accounts for year end 2023 that our bank balance will be zero or less?

Please confirm what your projections will be as I certainly don’t have a crystal ball. I also don’t have access to the financial details of the club accounts that you appear to have given you are saying all the money at the bank will be used up before 31st May 2023.
Safe to assume that the prize money for the top 6 league placing and the European monies for this season will not form part of that accounting period. That will be included in accounts for year end May 2024. 
 

We will make a profit from this season as the BOD budgeted to finish 7th so we are up approx £100k

Our manager is working with a limited squad a 4 members of staff and working a miracle to finish 6th

The interest free loan still works out as a 1st team players wage.

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[gorgo]

You're obviously a very bad judge of people. [emoji38]

Just like you can't read accounts

Just for youb

The report, signed off by Saints chairman John Needham, also highlighted increased costs in upgrading the club's Ralston training ground as one of the main issues they faced.

The chairman's report stated: "The year under review proved extremely challenging for all football clubs. As a result of the impacts of Covid-19 extending longer than anticipated, and a number of increased and exceptional costs, we sustained a loss of £1,598,506.





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[Albanian Buddy]

Just now, gorgo said:

We will make a profit from this season as the BOD budgeted to finish 7th so we are up approx £100k

Our manager is working with a limited squad a 4 members of staff and working a miracle to finish 6th

The interest free loan still works out as a 1st team players wage.

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I’m happy to run with one less 1st team brought in from the English lower leagues and take a risk on our academy graduates. The loan repayments are a manageable expense but if that means cuts to the managers budget then that is the right course of action. No argument from me. I’d sooner cheer on academy player as SMISA and the club have invested time and money nurturing that talent.

Would you have preferred the club not to have applied for the interest free Covid loan over 20years?

If that is the case how would that have worked out financially when the banks won’t lend us any money?

[faraway saint]

6 minutes ago, gorgo said:

Just like you can't read accounts

Just for youb

Where, exactly, have I disputed any version of the accounts?

You're having a nightmare. 

[gorgo]

Where, exactly, have I disputed any version of the accounts?
You're having a nightmare. [emoji38]

Sorry not you it was Albanian saint

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[Albanian Buddy]

I’ve been highly critical of the club board for increased expenses in a number of areas - as an example Ralston refurbishment and playing budget. 

But to not take advantage of the 20year interest free Covid loan from Scottish government would surely have been exceedingly stupid in their part.

Am I missing something here?

However if they do not make paying that off every month a priority then they need their arses kicked. 

[gorgo]

I’ve been highly critical of the club board for increased expenses in a number of areas - as an example Ralston refurbishment and playing budget. 
But to not take advantage of the 20year interest free Covid loan from Scottish government would surely have been exceedingly stupid in their part.
Am I missing something here?
However if they do not make paying that off every month a priority then they need their arses kicked. 

Agreed but not at the expense of the 1st team or academy budgets

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[faraway saint]

7 minutes ago, gorgo said:

Sorry not you it was Albanian saint

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No problem. 

[Albanian Buddy]

Just now, gorgo said:

Agreed but not at the expense of the 1st team or academy budgets

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Let’s just increase your season ticket price to pay it off. I’d be happy with that outcome.