BLF

Oh dear. How sad.

Nail on the head.
r*ngers have cheated lied and stolen their way to numerous titles, cups and have ripped young promising talent from every club in the SPL using money they didnt have.
There should be no concessions, no deals or bargaining. r*ngers should be left to rot.
All of Scottish football has a choice coming soon - do the right thing or do the easy thing. If it chooses to do the right thing, the game may die, if it chooses the easy option, the game is dead already.

Nail on the head.
r*ngers have cheated lied and stolen their way to numerous titles, cups and have ripped young promising talent from every club in the SPL using money they didnt have.
There should be no concessions, no deals or bargaining. r*ngers should be left to rot.
All of Scottish football has a choice coming soon - do the right thing or do the easy thing. If it chooses to do the right thing, the game may die, if it chooses the easy option, the game is dead already.

Only if good men and women let them do so...

Hopefully today signals the beginning of the end for the most vile and hate filled organisation to exist in our country.
As fans of an SPL club, we must ensure that our voice is heard - if this ultimately leads to the liquidation of r*ngers FC, they must not be allowed to directly re-enter the SPL.

Hopefully today signals the beginning of the end for the most vile and hate filled organisation to exist in our country.
As fans of an SPL club, we must ensure that our voice is heard - if this ultimately leads to the liquidation of r*ngers FC, they must not be allowed to directly re-enter the SPL.

Hopefully today signals the beginning of the end for the most vile and hate filled organisation to exist in our country.
As fans of an SPL club, we must ensure that our voice is heard - if this ultimately leads to the liquidation of r*ngers FC, they must not be allowed to directly re-enter the SPL.

I try not be someone who gloats but on this, Monday the thirteenth day of February 2012 (two thousand and twelve or 13/2/2012) I will ignore my normal persona and treat myself to a right good gloat!
Truly I must thank the Govan tax dodgers for the joy they have brought me this day. The smile on my face is the brightest and most joy ridden it has been since we beat the same tax dodging criminal's on Christmas eve (the 24th day of december 2011). Could this be the begining of a renaissance for Scottish football and Scottish society? Could this be a "levelling" of Scottish football's playing field? Could this be a bright new dawn (not a literal dawn but a euphemism) for our beloved sport in Scotland?
I would enjoy expanding on these point's that I have raised but for the time being I shall refrain from doing so. I will however express my utter joy and leave you (my fellow forum user's) with a few point's to ponder:
Think of all those years when the Govan tax dodger's beat our beloved professional football club with player's they could not afford and should never have had!
Think of the utter reprobate's who taunted us with the "Paisley loyal" banner and ask why they have abandoned the club that they the claimed to be so passionate about?
And finally, when the reprobate's speak in defence of the tax dodger's of Govan and profess loyalty to Queen and country, ask them just how many bullet proof vest's the British government would have been able to buy our troop's (fighting for Queen and country) with the 42 million pound's that the tax dodger's have fraudulently witheld from HMRC?
Rejoice fellow football supporter's REJOICE!

Bluto is totally correct.
There is a major brainwashing going on by all Media saying Scottish Fitba will suffer with r*ngers demise.
Crap i say !
Costs will just have to be readjusted ( wages cut ) and we move on.

am I reading this right?
Richard Atkinson is putting in £500K and if I put in £10 a month, we have equality??.
If I was putting in £500K you could f**k right off if you thought i'd accept equality with someone chucking in £10.
There's a saying "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is" Seems apt on that premise.

you'll have missed my post then:

you'll have missed my post then:

you'll have missed my post then:

Not that I can answer on behalf of the mods but Feegie Saint used homophobic and arguably racist comments on a lot of his previous posts. I think that was why he was banned.
And FWIW, there are those that are wanks on here! Some, and you know who, have (for whatever reason) launched a smear campaign against REA and the CiC generally. Those who tried to stick up for the man or the CiC notion, probably because they had taken the time to meet with him and discuss their concerns, we're accused of wanting a place on some sort of board.
With the exception of Somner9 every counter-CiC arguement has been along the lines of " he doesn't even run a company", "he's a dick", "you are an arselicker" or "there are no scarves".
The case levelled against those who are on the side of the CiC is that we just call those against names... However that is what that anti lot do too! The only difference is, we have bothered to look into it, go to them with our concerns and hear what they have to say.

There's nothing there for me to argue against.
If Saints are worth £2m then someone will buy.
If not, then I don't believe it's right to expect that Public Funds should cough up £2m to liberate the current exhausted owners.
In much the same way that I wouldn't expect public funds to go towards rescuing Dundee from their doldrums or Queen of the South from its sad state...
By all means let it be bought by the community and made to work for the community, but not at a price that is unrealistic.

Out of all of the coalition politicians, Theresa May is the one I cany stand the most Zero redeeming features...

With the latest deadline being missed and the lack of information from 10000hours HQ, it seems very much to me like the sounding of the death knell for the CIC takeover plan.
The funding bodies don’t seem to be convinced enough to back the plan and ultimately it needs their buy in to go ahead.
The question is, where do we go from here?
There was/is a lot of positivity built up around the concept of the CIC – getting the fans to use their skills to help the club improve its off field activities and in particular deliver on things the fan base wants to see (new strips, legends banners etc). It would be a shame to lose that enthusiasm and newly realised resource.
Is there any way to maintain the principle of the CIC/community club/co-operative society, without it being a complete take over.
Perhaps by tagging a fans group onto Ken McGeoch’s ‘note of interest’?
The club will be sold eventually – the CIC had a lot going for it, but ultimately seems to have been unworkable – lets hope when the takeover happens it can carry some of the good parts of the CIC with it.
[NB: I have no ‘inside knowledge’, it may be that the CIC is about to announce the completion of the takeover any time now, in which case, I will duly eat humble pie!]

With the latest deadline being missed and the lack of information from 10000hours HQ, it seems very much to me like the sounding of the death knell for the CIC takeover plan.
The funding bodies don’t seem to be convinced enough to back the plan and ultimately it needs their buy in to go ahead.
The question is, where do we go from here?
There was/is a lot of positivity built up around the concept of the CIC – getting the fans to use their skills to help the club improve its off field activities and in particular deliver on things the fan base wants to see (new strips, legends banners etc). It would be a shame to lose that enthusiasm and newly realised resource.
Is there any way to maintain the principle of the CIC/community club/co-operative society, without it being a complete take over.
Perhaps by tagging a fans group onto Ken McGeoch’s ‘note of interest’?
The club will be sold eventually – the CIC had a lot going for it, but ultimately seems to have been unworkable – lets hope when the takeover happens it can carry some of the good parts of the CIC with it.
[NB: I have no ‘inside knowledge’, it may be that the CIC is about to announce the completion of the takeover any time now, in which case, I will duly eat humble pie!]

I have a number of concerns still over the CIC, and they are mainly ones that cant be addressed without seeing the thing in action. Its a long post but appreciate any feedback.
1 Bureaucracy we are going to have 3 boards, SMFC Board, CIC Board, Exec Board. I understand the requirement of each but I also can see this becoming a very difficult set up to maintain without the CIC or SMFC becoming difficult to operate effectively. On this point I also think that its important that the elected SMFC board is allowed to run the club in the way they see fit i.e. the CIC board and indeed members cant expect to be consulted on every decision if the board arent running things to your liking dont re-elect them sort of idea.
2 Exec Board I completely understand the necessity of this board and agree with it in principle, but as its unelected it wouldnt be answerable to the supporters what if the exec board make a decision or veto a deal against the wishes of the support at large. I understand the premise is to only get involved in legal dealings etc but who determines what goes to the exec board and what doesnt if they have overall governance then whats to stop them making decisions on issues that they were not originally supposed to have a say on.
3 - Fan apathy SMiSA really struggled to make an impact because there were never more that about 120 members and only really 10 who actually were actively doing things if Saints fans get bored of the CIC or if the team gets relegated Im concerned the fan involvement might drop off to the point that the model becomes unsustainable.
4 Division of support The Saints fans are a great bunch for not getting on with each other Im concerned that the CIC members/Non Members will become a big division in our support and may lead to some people feeling isolated or worse, some fans feeling superior. This is something we all probably have to be careful of and ensure that any new regime is totally inclusive.
5 Inexperience - I like Richard and I like that hes come up with a lot of new ideas for the club to make money I like that he is driven and has belief that St Mirren can grow as a club, but I fear there is an element of naivety. The numbers that were discussed in the presentations seem reasonable enough, but there has also been talk of getting Old Firm fans to get Season tickets at St Mirren instead of with the OF, because well offer them more value, or because we will be their community club. By and large fans dont change their teams, we can convince a few Im sure, but were talking 10s not 100s. Football fans arent consumers its a business yes, but it doesnt really work the same way other ones do and Im not certain Richard appreciates that yet.
6 - Exit strategy if/when this happens I will sign up so dont take this point as me willing the thing to fail if/when it happens I will really be hoping it takes off and is a huge success, because this is my club and I want it to work. That said, I think there has to be a clearly defined exit strategy At what point is the scheme determined a failure? Would those involved, both Richard and his team, and the fans who have bought in be willing/brave enough to admit if it hadnt been successful and was time to call it a day? In such a scenario the club is put up for sale as the only asset of TTH to pay its debts, fair enough, but who decides on the suitability of potential buyers? Also on this Richard mentioned that he and Chris held the 100 or so shares in TTH is there a potential that the power would be taken out of the fans hands in this situation?
If/when this happens I will be 100% on board but we are all going to have to work hard to ensure the above points dont turn this project into a disaster.

I have a number of concerns still over the CIC, and they are mainly ones that cant be addressed without seeing the thing in action. Its a long post but appreciate any feedback.
1 Bureaucracy we are going to have 3 boards, SMFC Board, CIC Board, Exec Board. I understand the requirement of each but I also can see this becoming a very difficult set up to maintain without the CIC or SMFC becoming difficult to operate effectively. On this point I also think that its important that the elected SMFC board is allowed to run the club in the way they see fit i.e. the CIC board and indeed members cant expect to be consulted on every decision if the board arent running things to your liking dont re-elect them sort of idea.
2 Exec Board I completely understand the necessity of this board and agree with it in principle, but as its unelected it wouldnt be answerable to the supporters what if the exec board make a decision or veto a deal against the wishes of the support at large. I understand the premise is to only get involved in legal dealings etc but who determines what goes to the exec board and what doesnt if they have overall governance then whats to stop them making decisions on issues that they were not originally supposed to have a say on.
3 - Fan apathy SMiSA really struggled to make an impact because there were never more that about 120 members and only really 10 who actually were actively doing things if Saints fans get bored of the CIC or if the team gets relegated Im concerned the fan involvement might drop off to the point that the model becomes unsustainable.
4 Division of support The Saints fans are a great bunch for not getting on with each other Im concerned that the CIC members/Non Members will become a big division in our support and may lead to some people feeling isolated or worse, some fans feeling superior. This is something we all probably have to be careful of and ensure that any new regime is totally inclusive.
5 Inexperience - I like Richard and I like that hes come up with a lot of new ideas for the club to make money I like that he is driven and has belief that St Mirren can grow as a club, but I fear there is an element of naivety. The numbers that were discussed in the presentations seem reasonable enough, but there has also been talk of getting Old Firm fans to get Season tickets at St Mirren instead of with the OF, because well offer them more value, or because we will be their community club. By and large fans dont change their teams, we can convince a few Im sure, but were talking 10s not 100s. Football fans arent consumers its a business yes, but it doesnt really work the same way other ones do and Im not certain Richard appreciates that yet.
6 - Exit strategy if/when this happens I will sign up so dont take this point as me willing the thing to fail if/when it happens I will really be hoping it takes off and is a huge success, because this is my club and I want it to work. That said, I think there has to be a clearly defined exit strategy At what point is the scheme determined a failure? Would those involved, both Richard and his team, and the fans who have bought in be willing/brave enough to admit if it hadnt been successful and was time to call it a day? In such a scenario the club is put up for sale as the only asset of TTH to pay its debts, fair enough, but who decides on the suitability of potential buyers? Also on this Richard mentioned that he and Chris held the 100 or so shares in TTH is there a potential that the power would be taken out of the fans hands in this situation?
If/when this happens I will be 100% on board but we are all going to have to work hard to ensure the above points dont turn this project into a disaster.

Risky - might have to pay funeral costs.....