Big Fras

Sadly a good post. The sub-line on the thread title is a bit uneccesary in the current climate. Whilst seemingly the CICs No.1 fan, Sid is in danger of becoming its No.1 PR liability.
I'm not going to expand much beyond the fact that a lot of people wanting to know about the CIC concept have been visiting this forum. I spoke to 4 when recently "up the road", and they were more than a little bit sceptical due to the overly aggressive backing given by certain posters on here. I was suprised at the lack of knowledge of what is being proposed, but all 4 didn't want to contact/join the forum due to the nature of abuse being doled out. The simnple fact is that some of the vehement CIC supporters are actuall "switching off" people from joining them.
Of course, the line is "its just an unofficial forum, what do you expect".....but the reality is that this forum has been heavily slanted in favour of the bid, which is in itself fair enough. Slaughtering any non-committed parties is not clever PR, as I'm sure Mr.Atkinson would agree. "Defenders of the CIC faith" are then only making it harder to persude the non-committed to join up in the future, which goes against the very nature of what the CIC concept is supposed to be about.
This is now beginning to turn into the most negative, divisive issue amongst the fans for some time.

Big Fras, for me it's not necessarily a one way street. I defended the objectors right to post a few weeks back and said that the negatives has to be listened to for us all to form a reasoned opinion, but I'm finding myself bored with it already. Nothing new has been added to the debate over the last 2-3 weeks and when I log on here now all I see is petty slanging matches - I've even got caught up in one myself with Vambo who's idea of the consortium blowing the budget on some big money signings and then leaving it to the CIC to clear up the financial maelstrom is just about the most stupid thing I've read on a St Mirren forum - and there's always been plenty of competition for that mantle.
I made the decision a few weeks back that I would be a member of the CIC. I'd read the literature and listened to the points and arguments and I found it an easy decision to take. Why? It's because this is the first time in probably 30 years I've seen ANY senior Scottish Football Club make a genuine move to ask community groups in the voluntary sector what the club can do to help. For far too long those running Scottish Football have made a grab for everything, whether it's the likes of Motherwell and Hamilton lodging serial let bookings at council run sports facilities only to leave them unused because they can't afford to pay for them, or pro youth structures plucking the best kids from clubs, inflating their ego's whilst denying them football, and then spitting the kids back again once they've found something better. Far from supporting the community senior football clubs have chosen to compete with community groups for grants, facilities and sponsorship and devastated the game in Scotland as a result. The way I see 10,000 hours and the CIC is that finally we have something that is offering a partnership with shared knowledge and experience as well as shared use of facilities and equipment and to me that's worth backing. A partnership that is going to have mutual benefits for all concerned and for St Mirren it's likely to mean increased supporter numbers, more private function books, and perhaps less quantifiable items like juvenile clubs recommending their players and players at other clubs they've seen play to the clubs scouts.
However I am now beginning to waiver. Why? Because when I read through this forum I see people making statements about how their only concern is what happens on the pitch at Greenhill Road. I read about people complaining that their £10 per month isn't going directly into the playing budget. I read the petty slanging matches and I see the same empty headed, small minded self interest repeating itself over and over again and I realise that these are the people who are going to have a say in the directions and decisions the CIC takes.

Sadly a good post. The sub-line on the thread title is a bit uneccesary in the current climate. Whilst seemingly the CICs No.1 fan, Sid is in danger of becoming its No.1 PR liability.
I'm not going to expand much beyond the fact that a lot of people wanting to know about the CIC concept have been visiting this forum. I spoke to 4 when recently "up the road", and they were more than a little bit sceptical due to the overly aggressive backing given by certain posters on here. I was suprised at the lack of knowledge of what is being proposed, but all 4 didn't want to contact/join the forum due to the nature of abuse being doled out. The simnple fact is that some of the vehement CIC supporters are actuall "switching off" people from joining them.
Of course, the line is "its just an unofficial forum, what do you expect".....but the reality is that this forum has been heavily slanted in favour of the bid, which is in itself fair enough. Slaughtering any non-committed parties is not clever PR, as I'm sure Mr.Atkinson would agree. "Defenders of the CIC faith" are then only making it harder to persude the non-committed to join up in the future, which goes against the very nature of what the CIC concept is supposed to be about.
This is now beginning to turn into the most negative, divisive issue amongst the fans for some time.

Sadly a good post. The sub-line on the thread title is a bit uneccesary in the current climate. Whilst seemingly the CICs No.1 fan, Sid is in danger of becoming its No.1 PR liability.
I'm not going to expand much beyond the fact that a lot of people wanting to know about the CIC concept have been visiting this forum. I spoke to 4 when recently "up the road", and they were more than a little bit sceptical due to the overly aggressive backing given by certain posters on here. I was suprised at the lack of knowledge of what is being proposed, but all 4 didn't want to contact/join the forum due to the nature of abuse being doled out. The simnple fact is that some of the vehement CIC supporters are actuall "switching off" people from joining them.
Of course, the line is "its just an unofficial forum, what do you expect".....but the reality is that this forum has been heavily slanted in favour of the bid, which is in itself fair enough. Slaughtering any non-committed parties is not clever PR, as I'm sure Mr.Atkinson would agree. "Defenders of the CIC faith" are then only making it harder to persude the non-committed to join up in the future, which goes against the very nature of what the CIC concept is supposed to be about.
This is now beginning to turn into the most negative, divisive issue amongst the fans for some time.

It's only a faction if you're not mature enough to cope with the concept of people not necessarily all agreeing with each other.
The sub-heading of Sid's latest comedic tirade is potentially more damaging than any Animal post as visitors to the form are guaranteed to see Sid's heading and then read it. They may not read anything else after that.

I can vouch that this is correct. RA took the time to contact me and answer my queries. To be honest I don't think you can ask for much more than that as a supporter, and I'm pretty sure that Craig Whyte didn't have a team of suits answering RFC fans queries on FollowFollow.
I am of the view that it is critical for the longevity of the CIC ownership that as many fans are involved as possible. If this means revised membership schemes in similar lines to what you see currently as gate concessions for for families, OAPs / unemployed etc., then so be it. The most important thing would be that the supporters had a serious financial "voice" on an ongoing basis. It would be too easy to pay lip service to 312 members as opposed to 1800. Also, having a larger number of fans on board could/would make the whole thing appeal more to future community/private investors.

I can vouch that this is correct. RA took the time to contact me and answer my queries. To be honest I don't think you can ask for much more than that as a supporter, and I'm pretty sure that Craig Whyte didn't have a team of suits answering RFC fans queries on FollowFollow.
I am of the view that it is critical for the longevity of the CIC ownership that as many fans are involved as possible. If this means revised membership schemes in similar lines to what you see currently as gate concessions for for families, OAPs / unemployed etc., then so be it. The most important thing would be that the supporters had a serious financial "voice" on an ongoing basis. It would be too easy to pay lip service to 312 members as opposed to 1800. Also, having a larger number of fans on board could/would make the whole thing appeal more to future community/private investors.

Shucks Yul, Gunslinger Div appears to have 21st century weaponry down at the Coral these days. The Seven may have 6(pointer) shooters, but The Good, The Bad & The Baldy have laser guided tomahawks.

Shucks Yul, Gunslinger Div appears to have 21st century weaponry down at the Coral these days. The Seven may have 6(pointer) shooters, but The Good, The Bad & The Baldy have laser guided tomahawks.

Shucks Yul, Gunslinger Div appears to have 21st century weaponry down at the Coral these days. The Seven may have 6(pointer) shooters, but The Good, The Bad & The Baldy have laser guided tomahawks.

Thank you for the reply. This is what the Q&A is for, and it was nice to hear an informed voice giving a calm logical explanation with no sweary words
Reading the above, I'll be signing up. (NB: The "incentives" idea was just to try and entice any "floating voters", as personal experience has taught me that no matter how much good intentions people have , the "what's in it for me ?" mentality does kick in once you get the first wave of people signed up.
A membership of 1000+ would be really quite something, so let's aim high.
Thanks for taking the time.

To the 10000 hours chap(s)...
Q1.Echoing a point I madfe on another thread, can we just get some form of clarification as to why it was deemed acceptable that getting 300 fans to back the bid was seen as a mark of approval for the CIC to proceed.
RA has said that the fans backing was critical, yet the target figure was only 300 as clearly stated on the TTH website. To clearly identify/target only 10% of those who attend games now (and in effect an even smaller % of the supporter base at large) as a mandate for approval of the CIC bid is highly questionable, and a contradiction to the statements about needing the backing of the fans.
Q2.I have stated that I think with some good PR/marketing, the supporter involvement could top 1000, and this would be great for a number of reasons. There is a growing/grumbling (don't just listen to forums !) view that the changes are being "forced through" with the backing of the minority of fans, as the majority don't know enough about it.
To get 1000+ fans on board, before actioning the bid, would demonstrate that a sizeable chunk of the supporter base are firmly/financially behind the plan. At the moment it comes across as that some sizeable business, plus local community groups are driving the bid, backed by a small % of the St.Mirren support, and that just doesn't seem right.
Can you please clarify what plans are in place to get as many Buddies aware of the CIC bid in the immediate future.
Suggestions that I know from my own commercial experience do not cost thousands, and can be actioned very quickly:
Leafleting at turnstiles for next home games
Programme inserts
Mailshots to the databases of ST holders, those who have bought tickets, those who have bought mail order merchandise; B&W Mag database

Pretty well summarised Stuart. Following a pledge of another kind (to try and keep out of Sid's way), I didn't go into much detail. Some other posters subsequently asked questions about some of the areas of concern, and they were answered well by the TTH folks on the Q&A.
My only remaining grumble was about why/how the deal would be pushed through with "the backing of the fans"....yet the target represented about 10% of those who went to games these days. Hardly a working mandate, but I was satisfied by the talk and action of the TTH people that my final concerns were answered. (My thread on this issue was derided as "Pompous & self-important" by Sid....but thankfully the TTH people saw what I was trying to raise as an issue, and answered it well. 'nuff said)
My main hope now is that we get as close to 1000 as possible, not at discounted structure. This would be a great achievment, but also give the members a serious voice if things were going awry. The extra funds would come in handy as well.
This forum has done a good job in opening up a debate amongst Saints fans for what is a critical decision for the club, and with the exception of the fanatical CIC funa-mental-ists, and the Yul Bryner fruitcakes, the toing/froing of comments has been a healthy and informative debate. Introducing the Q&A section was excellent, especially for the FFFs who cannot attend meetings at SMP.

Yeah, I'm assuming you are struggling with the concept of what I said. Let me try again.
I grew up in the 1980s living in Hillington which, according to Google Maps, was 2.8 miles from Love Street. I went to various clubs and organisations like every child does and saw visits from Bobby Russell, Ally Dawson (both of r*ngers) and Danny McGrain and Davie Provan at c*ltic yet nothing from St Mirren. I remember my football team being taken on a tour of Ibrox - long before stadium tours were part of the commercial department - and in an era where there were only three stands at Ibrox. Nothing from St Mirren.
When the finances got tighter St Mirren pulled up the drawbridge. No more expenses paid to the players to cover their PR visits to schools and hospitals. Fall outs with local clubs over approaches to players without going through proper club protocol. A withdrawal of donations and gifts to help with fund raising and then to top it all off charging kids for admission instead of allowing them to be lifted over the turnstyle. And despite that there was still wonderment at why instead of the crowd numbers increasing they were actually on the decline. All during this time manager after manager would be quoted praising Alex Ferguson for taking his team out onto the streets of Paisley and dragging people in to watch the football - without ever having any idea or inclination of doing the same thing themselves.
Now Richard Atkinson has come along with a project that will take the brand back out into the community. It should widen the clubs appeal. It certainly should touch the lives of more people. And even better it looks like it's doing it the right way, helping because they are in a position to do so, rather than offering grudging assistance in return for a picture in the newspaper.
Me? You're right. I'm no St Mirren supporter. I couldn't care less about on the field results but if you think having the St Mirren brand work closely with 250 young Lanarkshire footballers will have results that only go one way I can only shrug my shoulders in sympathy.

Pretty well summarised Stuart. Following a pledge of another kind (to try and keep out of Sid's way), I didn't go into much detail. Some other posters subsequently asked questions about some of the areas of concern, and they were answered well by the TTH folks on the Q&A.
My only remaining grumble was about why/how the deal would be pushed through with "the backing of the fans"....yet the target represented about 10% of those who went to games these days. Hardly a working mandate, but I was satisfied by the talk and action of the TTH people that my final concerns were answered. (My thread on this issue was derided as "Pompous & self-important" by Sid....but thankfully the TTH people saw what I was trying to raise as an issue, and answered it well. 'nuff said)
My main hope now is that we get as close to 1000 as possible, not at discounted structure. This would be a great achievment, but also give the members a serious voice if things were going awry. The extra funds would come in handy as well.
This forum has done a good job in opening up a debate amongst Saints fans for what is a critical decision for the club, and with the exception of the fanatical CIC funa-mental-ists, and the Yul Bryner fruitcakes, the toing/froing of comments has been a healthy and informative debate. Introducing the Q&A section was excellent, especially for the FFFs who cannot attend meetings at SMP.

Stuart This isn't about anyone getting their way. There are probably going to be enough members without winning over the dissenters or the unconvinced for the CIC to go ahead. There is no party line that I know of anyway - I haven't spoken to anyone from 10000 hours on an individual basis, just read the literature, attended a public meeting, and liked what I saw and heard. I have no vested interest in the CIC going ahead, I just believe it is the right option at this point in time for St Mirren FC.
The point is some posters are making repeated posts misrepresenting the facts and possibly discouraging others from getting involved.
Then there are other people, like spiritof77, who are asking perfectly valid questions, taking heed of the replies and coming up with follow up questions as a result. That's how it should work, not people coming on here asking the same question day after day and refusing to accept the perfectly reasonable responses. That is a long way past tiresome and is in danger of detracting form the real debate that should be taking place, which should be based on the facts that have been presented by the 10000 Hours team.

Do you know what? This is often the problem with the online St Mirren community and I know it only too well from experience.
The reality is that some people will never be convinced for whatever reason. They may have a valid concern. They may understand something about the club that others aren't privy to. They must just be ill informed. Or they might just be daft cunts trying to get an argument going. But whatever they are it is good to have an alternative opinion on line, to have the debate, and to not try to bloody hard to shut up the opposition or to force a complete consensus.
JM1 you aren't the only one, Bingboy on this thread said much the same thing, but it would be far healthier if you could also respect the opinions of people who are not behind Richard Atkinson and it would be healthier if you could understand that for someone visiting the forum for information it is much, much better if they see the debate, get a proper rounded picture of what is happening and then make up their own minds. It's certainly better than have them visit and see thread after thread of propaganda stating that everyone thinks it's a brilliant idea and us all gushing about Mr Atkinson.
FWIW, again, I want to see 10000hours succeed, and I want to see the CIC come to fruition. I've stated my reservation and I've accepted the answer that I didn't want to hear. But it is good to see the alternative opinion and although Somner 9 is guilty of repetition, so are the many posts who back the bid.

Having read Richard Atkinson’s information document, seen his presentation slides and read the live Tweet report from the public meeting last week, St Mirren fans should be aware of the following before deciding whether or not to give their money to the 10,000 Hours CIC company -
1. St Mirren fans and the local community will NOT be in ‘control of the destiny of the club’ as Mr Atkinson puts it. Despite all the PR spin and media hype, St Mirren fans will NOT be running the club.
At the public meeting and stated in the live Tweet of the meeting, Mr Atkinson said that an executive board of 10,000 Hours - made up of Mr Atkinson and ‘the guys who have created the CIC’ will retain control of St Mirren’s ‘budget’ and ‘significant contracts’.
This executive board is self-appointed, unelected, unaccountable and does not contain representatives of the fans paying £10 a month, community groups paying £500 a year or companies paying £10,000 a year.
The club’s budget, (how much is spent on the player pool) and who is offered a ‘significant contract’ (manager, coaches and players) are the two most important areas that are central to the success of any football club and whether St Mirren remains in the SPL or is taken to the lower divisions.
This small band of individuals on Mr Atkinson’s executive board - and not the members board of 10,000 Hours made up of fans’ representatives - will effectively control the club.
2. Under the CIC proposals, St Mirren Football Club will lose out on revenue that normally would have gone directly to the club for player budgets etc. Instead of going to the club, this money will be used to repay the loans taken out to pay off the directors who are selling their shares.
Mr Atkinson says in his information document that ‘it is 10000hours that is entering into any borrowing, and not the club directly.’ However, he goes on to admit ‘the funding to repay any debt will come from two main areas. Firstly, the enhanced trading of the assets of St Mirren FC an area all recognise as under-utilised, especially since the stadium move.
Mr Atkinson is admitting that extra revenue from ‘trading on the assets’ of the club will not go to the club but to pay off the CIC debt incurred to buy the shares of Gilmour and Co. While Mr Atkinson is claiming he doesn’t intend to use the stadium to secure the CIC’s debt, he is going to use revenue from St Mirren FC to pay off that debt.
This is confirmed in the Tweet report of the public meeting last week which says ‘Richard explaining that the club has many under-utilised assets. 10000Hours intends to use these assets to generate extra revenue.’
And revealing what is going to happen to this extra revenue from the club, Mr Atkinson says in his presentation ‘Most fans that are familiar with the new stadium in comparison to the old recognize that there are a number of underutilized assets. 10000hours will exploit these opportunities in order to pay off any debt element of the funding.’
In a nutshell, the fans are being asked to fund the 10,000 Hours purchase of the consortium’s majority shareholding along with over £1 million in loans. Money that would normally benefit the club through its own commercial activities will instead go to pay off the debts taken on by the CIC to buy a majority shareholding.
And while all this is going on, the real power and influence in how the club is being run - control of the club’s budget, who the manager is and which players are signed – lies with Mr Atkinson and his friends on the executive committee with no input from fans or community.

I am writing this on the assumption that the CIC bid will succeed.
In one of the other threads, Div has touched on what is THE critical area for this whole CIC business, and its validity whether you are for/against expanding the numbers of supporter involvement.
Why ?
*RA has said that the whole thing depends upon the backing of the fans. Fine.
*What we have is a target of 300 10% of the regular support. For one in ten regular fans to be all that is required to rubber stamp supporter backing is a ridiculously low level the sort of mandate that even Nick Clegg may wince at.
*If we have 1,000+ fans signed up, then the financial benefits to the club are obvious.
*If we have 1,000+ fans signed up, then this represents a serious voice ie. the first sign of any buggering about / unfulfilled promises / etc. then 700-800+ cancel their direct debits within a 1-2 month period. I think youll find that gets results, and the Executive Board will really pay heed to supporter involvement, beyond the lower tier board position(s) that are available.
Beyond the above what are the benefits ?
Given that this project has been on the go now for 12 months, the incentives for the individual membership are very disappointing thus far, and dont appear to have had much thought put in. This is at best surprising.
All I know so far is that:
*Well get access to a bar. Mowell did this a while back, and within a short period of time, it (Davie Cooper Bar ?)was open to non-members due to a series of complaints and general bad PR within the club. Id wager similar will happen at SMP. Also, not exactly a pulse-quickener for exiled Buds who must represent a decent target market for the individual memberships (ie. get a chance to get involved from a distance)
*Fitzy says we can help choose the strips.
*Other benefits will be voted for by the fans (once the bid is through). Surely something as simple as % discount on merchandise would have been easy enough to offer right here & now ? Im sure the business partners will see good benefits for fans using theior services, but that is AFTER the event. Lets try and offer some bunce to bring in as many Individual Members as possible.
Im probably missing something, but if the above is all that is on offer as incentives, it doesnt really tally with the stated intentions of supporter backing being the key. We dont appear to be trying too hard to win over as wide an audience as possible.
If a non-online campaign is cranked up to recruit as many as possible, then this is highly commendable:
*We have enough good contacts in the press to make this happen
*I am not the only one to be left scratching my head at why the bar was set so low (10%) for supporter backing, and it doesnt really help the festering bad vibes that many have about the project.
*Divs feedback about non-net users wondering what the hell is going on is a concern, and clearly the CIC bid is not yet being communicated as well as could possibly be the case.
Having done an Aber on Bannatyne, I may well be IN again.....if I see a decent campaign to recruit as many people as possible. Having 1000 fans signed up is achievable, and does represent a decent mandate for saying the supporters back the CIC bid. It also provides the fans with a loud enough threat to keep the whole thing on the straight & narrow.
Div you made a great post. Now do the hard bit and go and get them to make it happen in real life.

Q (10000 hours only please)
why are you waiting till after your proposed deal is set before engaging with Season Ticket Holders, Match by Match ticket purchasers (i.e. people that Actually put money into the club) etc? i find that an astonishing dismissal of the majority of the support of SMFC.
if as you say your proposal only works if the community gets behind it! why have you left the "Real St Mirren Community" out of the loop??? shouldn't a community based project actually start with "The Community"?
wouldn't a community based project be what the community wants, i.e. they decide how its set up, how its financed, what the democratic structure is, what type of businesses they want to do business with, what community groups they want to involve and be part of it, what board structure should be in place, one member, one vote! no multi-layered board system
i appreciate on this website you have reached st mirren fans, but the numbers compared to 2000 STH and the others that put money into the club is small.
why haven't you engaged with the community? i don't accept it would costs thousands to write to each STH, Shareholder, or give a leaflet out at the first home game of the season last year. it is apparent you want this on your terms, thats ok, but please when you say community please be honest who you really mean.

I am writing this on the assumption that the CIC bid will succeed.
In one of the other threads, Div has touched on what is THE critical area for this whole CIC business, and its validity whether you are for/against expanding the numbers of supporter involvement.
Why ?
*RA has said that the whole thing depends upon the backing of the fans. Fine.
*What we have is a target of 300 10% of the regular support. For one in ten regular fans to be all that is required to rubber stamp supporter backing is a ridiculously low level the sort of mandate that even Nick Clegg may wince at.
*If we have 1,000+ fans signed up, then the financial benefits to the club are obvious.
*If we have 1,000+ fans signed up, then this represents a serious voice ie. the first sign of any buggering about / unfulfilled promises / etc. then 700-800+ cancel their direct debits within a 1-2 month period. I think youll find that gets results, and the Executive Board will really pay heed to supporter involvement, beyond the lower tier board position(s) that are available.
Beyond the above what are the benefits ?
Given that this project has been on the go now for 12 months, the incentives for the individual membership are very disappointing thus far, and dont appear to have had much thought put in. This is at best surprising.
All I know so far is that:
*Well get access to a bar. Mowell did this a while back, and within a short period of time, it (Davie Cooper Bar ?)was open to non-members due to a series of complaints and general bad PR within the club. Id wager similar will happen at SMP. Also, not exactly a pulse-quickener for exiled Buds who must represent a decent target market for the individual memberships (ie. get a chance to get involved from a distance)
*Fitzy says we can help choose the strips.
*Other benefits will be voted for by the fans (once the bid is through). Surely something as simple as % discount on merchandise would have been easy enough to offer right here & now ? Im sure the business partners will see good benefits for fans using theior services, but that is AFTER the event. Lets try and offer some bunce to bring in as many Individual Members as possible.
Im probably missing something, but if the above is all that is on offer as incentives, it doesnt really tally with the stated intentions of supporter backing being the key. We dont appear to be trying too hard to win over as wide an audience as possible.
If a non-online campaign is cranked up to recruit as many as possible, then this is highly commendable:
*We have enough good contacts in the press to make this happen
*I am not the only one to be left scratching my head at why the bar was set so low (10%) for supporter backing, and it doesnt really help the festering bad vibes that many have about the project.
*Divs feedback about non-net users wondering what the hell is going on is a concern, and clearly the CIC bid is not yet being communicated as well as could possibly be the case.
Having done an Aber on Bannatyne, I may well be IN again.....if I see a decent campaign to recruit as many people as possible. Having 1000 fans signed up is achievable, and does represent a decent mandate for saying the supporters back the CIC bid. It also provides the fans with a loud enough threat to keep the whole thing on the straight & narrow.
Div you made a great post. Now do the hard bit and go and get them to make it happen in real life.

I am writing this on the assumption that the CIC bid will succeed.
In one of the other threads, Div has touched on what is THE critical area for this whole CIC business, and its validity whether you are for/against expanding the numbers of supporter involvement.
Why ?
*RA has said that the whole thing depends upon the backing of the fans. Fine.
*What we have is a target of 300 10% of the regular support. For one in ten regular fans to be all that is required to rubber stamp supporter backing is a ridiculously low level the sort of mandate that even Nick Clegg may wince at.
*If we have 1,000+ fans signed up, then the financial benefits to the club are obvious.
*If we have 1,000+ fans signed up, then this represents a serious voice ie. the first sign of any buggering about / unfulfilled promises / etc. then 700-800+ cancel their direct debits within a 1-2 month period. I think youll find that gets results, and the Executive Board will really pay heed to supporter involvement, beyond the lower tier board position(s) that are available.
Beyond the above what are the benefits ?
Given that this project has been on the go now for 12 months, the incentives for the individual membership are very disappointing thus far, and dont appear to have had much thought put in. This is at best surprising.
All I know so far is that:
*Well get access to a bar. Mowell did this a while back, and within a short period of time, it (Davie Cooper Bar ?)was open to non-members due to a series of complaints and general bad PR within the club. Id wager similar will happen at SMP. Also, not exactly a pulse-quickener for exiled Buds who must represent a decent target market for the individual memberships (ie. get a chance to get involved from a distance)
*Fitzy says we can help choose the strips.
*Other benefits will be voted for by the fans (once the bid is through). Surely something as simple as % discount on merchandise would have been easy enough to offer right here & now ? Im sure the business partners will see good benefits for fans using theior services, but that is AFTER the event. Lets try and offer some bunce to bring in as many Individual Members as possible.
Im probably missing something, but if the above is all that is on offer as incentives, it doesnt really tally with the stated intentions of supporter backing being the key. We dont appear to be trying too hard to win over as wide an audience as possible.
If a non-online campaign is cranked up to recruit as many as possible, then this is highly commendable:
*We have enough good contacts in the press to make this happen
*I am not the only one to be left scratching my head at why the bar was set so low (10%) for supporter backing, and it doesnt really help the festering bad vibes that many have about the project.
*Divs feedback about non-net users wondering what the hell is going on is a concern, and clearly the CIC bid is not yet being communicated as well as could possibly be the case.
Having done an Aber on Bannatyne, I may well be IN again.....if I see a decent campaign to recruit as many people as possible. Having 1000 fans signed up is achievable, and does represent a decent mandate for saying the supporters back the CIC bid. It also provides the fans with a loud enough threat to keep the whole thing on the straight & narrow.
Div you made a great post. Now do the hard bit and go and get them to make it happen in real life.

I am writing this on the assumption that the CIC bid will succeed.
In one of the other threads, Div has touched on what is THE critical area for this whole CIC business, and its validity whether you are for/against expanding the numbers of supporter involvement.
Why ?
*RA has said that the whole thing depends upon the backing of the fans. Fine.
*What we have is a target of 300 10% of the regular support. For one in ten regular fans to be all that is required to rubber stamp supporter backing is a ridiculously low level the sort of mandate that even Nick Clegg may wince at.
*If we have 1,000+ fans signed up, then the financial benefits to the club are obvious.
*If we have 1,000+ fans signed up, then this represents a serious voice ie. the first sign of any buggering about / unfulfilled promises / etc. then 700-800+ cancel their direct debits within a 1-2 month period. I think youll find that gets results, and the Executive Board will really pay heed to supporter involvement, beyond the lower tier board position(s) that are available.
Beyond the above what are the benefits ?
Given that this project has been on the go now for 12 months, the incentives for the individual membership are very disappointing thus far, and dont appear to have had much thought put in. This is at best surprising.
All I know so far is that:
*Well get access to a bar. Mowell did this a while back, and within a short period of time, it (Davie Cooper Bar ?)was open to non-members due to a series of complaints and general bad PR within the club. Id wager similar will happen at SMP. Also, not exactly a pulse-quickener for exiled Buds who must represent a decent target market for the individual memberships (ie. get a chance to get involved from a distance)
*Fitzy says we can help choose the strips.
*Other benefits will be voted for by the fans (once the bid is through). Surely something as simple as % discount on merchandise would have been easy enough to offer right here & now ? Im sure the business partners will see good benefits for fans using theior services, but that is AFTER the event. Lets try and offer some bunce to bring in as many Individual Members as possible.
Im probably missing something, but if the above is all that is on offer as incentives, it doesnt really tally with the stated intentions of supporter backing being the key. We dont appear to be trying too hard to win over as wide an audience as possible.
If a non-online campaign is cranked up to recruit as many as possible, then this is highly commendable:
*We have enough good contacts in the press to make this happen
*I am not the only one to be left scratching my head at why the bar was set so low (10%) for supporter backing, and it doesnt really help the festering bad vibes that many have about the project.
*Divs feedback about non-net users wondering what the hell is going on is a concern, and clearly the CIC bid is not yet being communicated as well as could possibly be the case.
Having done an Aber on Bannatyne, I may well be IN again.....if I see a decent campaign to recruit as many people as possible. Having 1000 fans signed up is achievable, and does represent a decent mandate for saying the supporters back the CIC bid. It also provides the fans with a loud enough threat to keep the whole thing on the straight & narrow.
Div you made a great post. Now do the hard bit and go and get them to make it happen in real life.

This is hopefully the last thing I’m going to say in this CIC topic (unless I get slated but I know that won’t happen).
I have been following saints for the last 35 years and for the last 17 of those years I introduced my son to SMFC and have been a season ticket holder since then and go to most away games as well.
I don’t stay in Paisley so every game is a away game for me, I have purchased home and away kits every season from when my son was born spent numerous sums of money on merchandise from SMFC, put his name on the seat at Love street bought his seat and grass when sadly Love street went away, our names are on a brick on the wall, we have done hospitality so I have spent a lot of money in the club over the years.
However over the last season my heart hasn’t been in it and more importantly my son has been getting bored with it and we have been making our self’s go to games because we have a season ticket, and now feel that that is no longer value for money.
• Games on the Telly
• Free tickets given away most weeks ( I know somebody who has been to every home game on a free ticket)
• Cut price deals for admission
Now the board want to sell and the CIC want to come on board as I have said in the past I’m not for or against this as I really don’t know enough and I have read argument and counter argument and I’m still no further forward, but for the benefit for SMFC I truly hope it’s solved sooner rather than later, if this is the way SMFC supporters are behaving at the moment with each other god help us when it gets to boardroom level if some of the support don’t like what’s happening.
And during all this my main concern is what is happening on the park and this has been forgetting about and this is the sole reason I follow SMFC.
So my son and I have decided to take a year out from following SMFC and watch from the side with great interest while all this nonsense is sorted out and we get back what is important to me and that is watching SMFC, hopefully when the season restarts I might have changed my mind but at the moment I’m a truly desponded SMFC supporter.

I think the guy made a very balanced post. The "ideas bank" generated by the CIC debate has been terriffic.....but not something that couldn't have been done if a consultant had been brought in to look at furthering commercial opportunities.