Desperately Seeking Susans Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 if, if, if....yer maw... There have been bids in the region of £2M that have been rejected. The rejection wasn't about the cash but about the business plan that accompanied them. The directors as they have always stated are looking for a business plan that will progress the club and protect it for the future. The more I consider the possibilities for St Mirren and the wider community that the CIC plan offers the bigger the chubby I get for it. The more I learn about Mr Atkinson, the more I think he might just be on the verge of a Saint-hood. The manner in which he has approached his attempts to deliver something quite remarkable is quite humbling. Instead of petulantly demanding information from Richard we should all be asking the man what we can do to help. 'Ask not what your club can do for you but what YOU can do for your club' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted March 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 if, if, if....yer maw... There have been bids in the region of £2M that have been rejected. The rejection wasn't about the cash but about the business plan that accompanied them. The directors as they have always stated are looking for a business plan that will progress the club and protect it for the future. The more I consider the possibilities for St Mirren and the wider community that the CIC plan offers the bigger the chubby I get for it. The more I learn about Mr Atkinson, the more I think he might just be on the verge of a Saint-hood. The manner in which he has approached his attempts to deliver something quite remarkable is quite humbling. Instead of petulantly demanding information from Richard we should all be asking the man what we can do to help. Sid stick to the humour and keep well away from In the know , it always has a habit of pulling you down a peg. Like David said if a £2M deal had came in the club would be sold. The board members who are selling there shares were trying to sell them to every man and his dog. I know this because my wifes brother was offerd them and he is not even into football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 if, if, if....yer maw... There have been bids in the region of £2M that have been rejected. The rejection wasn't about the cash but about the business plan that accompanied them. The directors as they have always stated are looking for a business plan that will progress the club and protect it for the future. The more I consider the possibilities for St Mirren and the wider community that the CIC plan offers the bigger the chubby I get for it. The more I learn about Mr Atkinson, the more I think he might just be on the verge of a Saint-hood. The manner in which he has approached his attempts to deliver something quite remarkable is quite humbling. Instead of petulantly demanding information from Richard we should all be asking the man what we can do to help. OK Mr. Atkinson (Richard) What can I do to help ? Please tell us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Does anyone know who and when March was offered as a deadline/milestone for further information? When I spoke with Richard he did state it didn't have to be March, whilst I don't recall SG mentioning dates in any recent interviews. I'm not entirely sure what the average fan can do to help, have a chat with Richard and then make suggestions being the obvious one. The obvious questions shines like a beacon, that being is a public forum really the correct place to outline exactly how the purchase of Saint Mirren football club will be put together. The same fans who slam DL for missing out on Gow are asking RA to basically lay bare all of his negotiations...okay, less chance of competitors stealing it for Saints but they may take it elsewhere and I have a sneaky suspicion Motherwell are looking to do something the same. Here's a simple way to help, surprisingly it's not wind up people on a forum and act like a bit of a twat. If you know of a local company who you think could get involved with the club and would benefit from it then get in touch with Richard and let him know, he is from Ayrshire so doesn't know the scene. Saints for example, Chivas... Of course, if you've written a 2,000 word article on how you could do it better then feel free to post that on here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Does anyone know who and when March was offered as a deadline/milestone for further information? When I spoke with Richard he did state it didn't have to be March, whilst I don't recall SG mentioning dates in any recent interviews. I'm not entirely sure what the average fan can do to help, have a chat with Richard and then make suggestions being the obvious one. The obvious questions shines like a beacon, that being is a public forum really the correct place to outline exactly how the purchase of Saint Mirren football club will be put together. The same fans who slam DL for missing out on Gow are asking RA to basically lay bare all of his negotiations...okay, less chance of competitors stealing it for Saints but they may take it elsewhere and I have a sneaky suspicion Motherwell are looking to do something the same. Here's a simple way to help, surprisingly it's not wind up people on a forum and act like a bit of a twat. If you know of a local company who you think could get involved with the club and would benefit from it then get in touch with Richard and let him know, he is from Ayrshire so doesn't know the scene. Saints for example, Chivas... Of course, if you've written a 2,000 word article on how you could do it better then feel free to post that on here! ""When I spoke with Richard"" So did he not tell you how it works ? If not why not ? If you do have all the details why not let us all know. ""get in touch with Richard and let him know, he is from Ayrshire so doesn't know the scene"" He has been a director of this club for nearly a year. God help us if he still doesn't know the local business scene. The only business I know he has had dealings with is closing - hint - sports shop not far from Paisley Cross ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) The only business I know he has had dealings with is closing - hint - sports shop not far from Paisley Cross ! The deal with JD Sports and Carbrini escaped your attention then. I guess that kit deal just happened by itself. Edited March 26, 2011 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) ""When I spoke with Richard"" So did he not tell you how it works ? If not why not ? If you do have all the details why not let us all know. ""get in touch with Richard and let him know, he is from Ayrshire so doesn't know the scene"" He has been a director of this club for nearly a year. God help us if he still doesn't know the local business scene. The only business I know he has had dealings with is closing - hint - sports shop not far from Paisley Cross ! Without scrolling through, everything I know has pretty much been discussed. The purchase will be funded by long term repayment through getting businesses to sign up to the CIC, whilst if memory serves me right the money paid by the fan portion (forecast at 300) will go towards season by season running costs over and above what goes in now. If you look at the logistics of SG etc wanting the money now then I'm assuming loan/grants for actually doing the up front business. I'll be honest and say I was thinking more about what happens after the £2 million is paid and how the community and fans are engaged from there. Had I sensed Richard was an idiot without a plan then I'd have dug a bit more, but he's a director in a fairly succesful company and appears to have done his research. He also has a lot more down on paper with regards to the future vision and structure than the MYFC venture I was involved in down south. I can't really comment on Provans or Carbrini/JD Sports, it is sad seeing Provans lose the contract...pretty sure my dad used to do the accounts for the old Provan store across from the Museum...but it could be that there's a bigger picture. Does AP not have contracts with other clubs though? Edited March 26, 2011 by TsuMirren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Without scrolling through, everything I know has pretty much been discussed. The purchase will be funded by long term repayment through getting businesses to sign up to the CIC, whilst if memory serves me right the money paid by the fan portion (forecast at 300) will go towards season by season running costs over and above what goes in now. If you look at the logistics of SG etc wanting the money now then I'm assuming loan/grants for actually doing the up front business. I'll be honest and say I was thinking more about what happens after the £2 million is paid and how the community and fans are engaged from there. Had I sensed Richard was an idiot without a plan then I'd have dug a bit more, but he's a director in a fairly succesful company and appears to have done his research. He also has a lot more down on paper with regards to the future vision and structure than the MYFC venture I was involved in down south. So most of the £2,000,000 will be funded by debt then ? I notice you are trying very hard not to mention the word DEBT ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 The way it was explained to me, which was in broad terms, was that all club buy outs involve a degree of debt. Don't quote me though, there will be members of this forum who have had that portion of it explained much better. I'm obviously also not the spokesperson for Richard by any means. As I look at it, it's a better option than someone like Massone (no point discussing offers that didn't match the 2 million). The structure I was shown looks like it will work, the idea of getting fans and local companies on board is exactly what we should be doing and he's right that we should be using the facilities at the ground better. As I said at Ebbsfleet, there'll be nobody to blame but ourselves from the point we take over. If there's an idea (bar at the club for example) it'll be up to us to take it on, find money for the playing budget etc etc etc all ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 The way it was explained to me, which was in broad terms, was that all club buy outs involve a degree of debt. Don't quote me though, there will be members of this forum who have had that portion of it explained much better. I'm obviously also not the spokesperson for Richard by any means. As I look at it, it's a better option than someone like Massone (no point discussing offers that didn't match the 2 million). The structure I was shown looks like it will work, the idea of getting fans and local companies on board is exactly what we should be doing and he's right that we should be using the facilities at the ground better. As I said at Ebbsfleet, there'll be nobody to blame but ourselves from the point we take over. If there's an idea (bar at the club for example) it'll be up to us to take it on, find money for the playing budget etc etc etc all ours. Forgive me if I don't fancy the comparison of St. Mirren and Ebbsfleet. I have looked at their web site and I can't even work out which (minor) league they are in. Anyone who thinks there is a lot of money to be made by running a bar for a few hours, every second week (apart from the summer) at Greenhill Road is living in a financial dream world. Where will you 'find money for the playing budget' ??? When all this fantasy falls apart and the lenders come looking for their money it will be goodbye St.Mirren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Forgive me if I don't fancy the comparison of St. Mirren and Ebbsfleet. The comparison is only that the fans would be in power, after that I certainly wouldn't want us turning in to Ebbsfleet either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Without scrolling through, everything I know has pretty much been discussed. The purchase will be funded by long term repayment through getting businesses to sign up to the CIC, whilst if memory serves me right the money paid by the fan portion (forecast at 300) will go towards season by season running costs over and above what goes in now. If you look at the logistics of SG etc wanting the money now then I'm assuming loan/grants for actually doing the up front business. I'll be honest and say I was thinking more about what happens after the £2 million is paid and how the community and fans are engaged from there. Had I sensed Richard was an idiot without a plan then I'd have dug a bit more, but he's a director in a fairly succesful company and appears to have done his research. He also has a lot more down on paper with regards to the future vision and structure than the MYFC venture I was involved in down south. I can't really comment on Provans or Carbrini/JD Sports, it is sad seeing Provans lose the contract...pretty sure my dad used to do the accounts for the old Provan store across from the Museum...but it could be that there's a bigger picture. Does AP not have contracts with other clubs though? Best explanation I have read so far without knowing the fine detail so thanks for that. The figure of 300 fans contributing is about right going by SIMISA members anything above that will be a bonus. It all sounds very interesting so I look forward to the proposals being made public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Best explanation I have read so far without knowing the fine detail so thanks for that. The figure of 300 fans contributing is about right going by SIMISA members anything above that will be a bonus. It all sounds very interesting so I look forward to the proposals being made public. Having to do a lot of guesswork here but say 500 fans at say £150 per a year plus 20 businesses at say £10,000 EXTRA a year is about £275,000. Even this is very optimistic. I say EXTRA as the 20 businesses are probably already putting their hand in their pockets (corporate hospitality track side ads etc.) and 500 fans at £150 a year is asking quite a lot. Say £300,000 in one off grant from the Scottish Investment Fund. Looks like a lot of debt to make it up to £2,000,000. The whole scheme is very dependent on the fans and businesses to keep paying for a long time to come. Am I wrong ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) The deal with JD Sports and Carbrini escaped your attention then. I guess that kit deal just happened by itself. No Jd and Carbrinri had not escaped my attention. But the last time I looked they were not small COMMUNITY businesses. This decision will cost jobs in the local COMMUNITY. So much for COMMUNITY interests Mr. A. Will Jd be selling the full range of St Mirren merchandise that Provan's did ? I think not. Edited March 27, 2011 by animal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Having to do a lot of guesswork here but say 500 fans at say £150 per a year plus 20 businesses at say £10,000 EXTRA a year is about £275,000. Am I wrong ? You have only guessed about individual and corporate membership numbers. You haven't guessed at any community membership numbers who pay more than individuals, but less than corporate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 You have only guessed about individual and corporate membership numbers. You haven't guessed at any community membership numbers who pay more than individuals, but less than corporate. Well OK you give me a better guess. Preferably one that does not involve the Club or the CIC or both in deep debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Well OK you give me a better guess. Preferably one that does not involve the Club or the CIC or both in deep debt. I'm not interested in guessing. I'm interested in facts and basing my decision on getting involved once I see them, which will be sooner rather than later. In relation to your comment about JD Sports selling the range that Provans did - no, of course they won't. They are the new kit and trainingwear supplier. All the other gubbins will be sold, but at the stadium shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I'm not interested in guessing. I'm interested in facts and basing my decision on getting involved once I see them, which will be sooner rather than later. In relation to your comment about JD Sports selling the range that Provans did - no, of course they won't. They are the new kit and trainingwear supplier. All the other gubbins will be sold, but at the stadium shop. How soon ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 As a group of fans we already have a football club , some of us are shareholders and all of us contribute towards the turnover which in turn pays for the running of the club , so why should we even consider contributing extra money to pay for something we already have ? The current board deserve to make a profit from the sale of their shares , but their current valuation of the club , is a little on the high side . I hope the club can move on , but I am a little wary of the direction we are going in . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 As a group of fans we already have a football club , some of us are shareholders and all of us contribute towards the turnover which in turn pays for the running of the club , so why should we even consider contributing extra money to pay for something we already have. ... Because we are paying more to actually have a vote and a real say in the decision making process of the club! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 One thing I don't understand.......................... Mr Atkinson is not a St Mirren Fan so why is he getting involved?Is there something in it for him or is it just a wee hobby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 One thing I don't understand.......................... Mr Atkinson is not a St Mirren Fan so why is he getting involved?Is there something in it for him or is it just a wee hobby? I mentioned this earlier. Apparently he's not even a football fan. I couldn't give a f**k about rugby but if someone devised a scheme that allowed me to own a half-decent team with other mugs stumping up the takeover cash I suppose I could fake interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Having to do a lot of guesswork here but say 500 fans at say £150 per a year plus 20 businesses at say £10,000 EXTRA a year is about £275,000. Even this is very optimistic. I say EXTRA as the 20 businesses are probably already putting their hand in their pockets (corporate hospitality track side ads etc.) and 500 fans at £150 a year is asking quite a lot. Say £300,000 in one off grant from the Scottish Investment Fund. Looks like a lot of debt to make it up to £2,000,000. The whole scheme is very dependent on the fans and businesses to keep paying for a long time to come. Am I wrong ? I can only go on what is written here. I would assume local business have already been contacted and some have agreed to be onboard. As I cant see CIC agreeing a loan without the backing of the local community As for the fans. I don't see 300 being unreasonable a figure which you would think is a minimum. Of course this will be unclear until we know exactly what figure will be required to join. As I wrote I find it quite interesting thanks to the clear way its been explained further back. If I can afford to join I will. Edited March 27, 2011 by Lochwinnoch Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 ... Because we are paying more to actually have a vote and a real say in the decision making process of the club! Do you really think for £150 ish a year you will get 'a real say in the decision making process of the club' ? Dream on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Do you really think for £150 ish a year you will get 'a real say in the decision making process of the club' ? Dream on. You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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