civilsaint Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Just noticed, the thread title is very apt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Do you come to that decision cos donald finlay is there? you have not got a f**kin clue... or because Cowdenbeath almost went out of business last year? http://www.s1cowdenb...threatened.html ETA: http://www.cowdenbeathrotary.org/news.asp?intent=viewstory&newsid=41533 Edited February 13, 2012 by Dibbles old paperboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Banjos Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Just did a wee bit of research on the fate of all the Scottish clubs who have gone into admin. r*ngers would be the 5th in the SPL and 8th in total. SPL clubs: 2002 - Motherwell £11million debt (weren't relegated due to league restructuring) 2003 - Dundee £23 million debt (relegated 2 years later, administration again 7 years later) 2004 - Livingston £3.5 million (relegated following season, administration again 5 years later) 2008 - Gretna £4 million (liquidated) The other Scottish clubs who went into administration were: 2000 - Morton ?? debt (went from 1st to 3rd division in 2 seasons; took 6 years to get back to the 1st division) 2000 - Clydebank ?? debt (administrators sold club to Jim Ballantyne and he turned them into Airdrie Utd) 2002 - Airdrie £3 million debt (liquidated) So out of 7 clubs, 3 disappeared and 4 were relegated (if you include Motherwell who should have been). Even if r*ngers survive, we're probably looking at 5, 10 years of c*ltic dominance. Irony is r*ngers being in dire straits will slowly drag their ugly sister down with them as fewer decent players will want to come and play in an uncompetitive league, and fans will lose interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 You sound like a sensible chap but do you not know that administration takes the £100 million bill down to £10 Million and once everyone gets the 10p in the pound (very few guarenteed customers) then Rang*rs are sold as a going concern. Next season same as....Just the way it is. The creditors have to agree to what is offered... HMRC would have to agree to accept £8m instead of £80m in a case that is going to set a precedent for EPL clubs who have also used the EBT scheme in a similar way to r*ngers. IF r*ngers lose the tax cases the amount they are asked to pay by HMRC becomes payable with immediate effect. If HMRC refuse to accept 10p in the £ r*ngers will be liquidated unless CW or any rich fan offers to pay the £65m (including penalties) they are likely to be hit with later this month or in March. The only secured creditor at the minute is CW with his £18m floating charge over the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 It is still early days; however surely Henry McLeish will need to do a quick rewrite of his master plan for Scottish football. The fanny managed to study Scottish football for about 2 years and managed to miss what everyone else couldn't fail to see. Like shull I don't see this making a blind bit of difference to Scottish football overall. The only real impact is on the OF, and they are the one's panicking. The rest of us look on with mild amusement. I actually don't view it as a dancing shoes told you so moment, but just one of just desserts smugness. I almost feel a wee bit sorry for some of their fans.....not the corporate club deck gloryhunting arseholes, or the orange walk jog along dafties, or the "I don't know if I'll renew my season ticket" as the quality of player will no loger be scumgers quality types, or the teletext / ESPN / SKY TV, Radio Phone-in nutters, or the follow follow sectarian flaming scumbags......haw'd on...who's left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Lol.....You are full of it!.....Not got a clue and don't understand administration. Range*s will not need any other club to come through this and will be fine next season with new owners after a season of trauma. Well we'll see who's right over the coming months - won't we. The cases at Portsmouth and at Airdrie United show the pro's and cons of the two respective ways out for r*ngers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 More shadyness concerning CW here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-17021584 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Well we'll see who's right over the coming months - won't we. The cases at Portsmouth and at Airdrie United show the pro's and cons of the two respective ways out for r*ngers. It's quite simple....Administration ...no need for any strange takeover of a minor club. Did Motherwell do this? having £11milion of debt?....The truth will be told Stuart and I'm afraid you will be wrong again! Range*s out of admin will have a new owner and wil be ready for next season as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 It's started already.....prepare yourself for the fawning and saturated coverage of all this pish from the Old F*rm genitalia sucking media luvvies, just because of who it concerns. Why stop there? Let's go all the way and have all Sports TV presenters wear black armbands and the newspapers to print Union Jacks in black at the demise of one half of their vermin clients. What goes around comes around. This is just desserts for trying to play the "We're a big club" syndrome getting shoved down our throats! I hope at least one person in authority grows a pair for once and administers the leathal injection while they're still on their knees! f**k em' all Excellent post Sir ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Shull's going to buy the Club for £0.01p then burn the Stadium to the ground. Have you seen the price of Swan Vesta nowadays ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 The creditors have to agree to what is offered... HMRC would have to agree to accept £8m instead of £80m in a case that is going to set a precedent for EPL clubs who have also used the EBT scheme in a similar way to r*ngers. IF r*ngers lose the tax cases the amount they are asked to pay by HMRC becomes payable with immediate effect. If HMRC refuse to accept 10p in the £ r*ngers will be liquidated unless CW or any rich fan offers to pay the £65m (including penalties) they are likely to be hit with later this month or in March. The only secured creditor at the minute is CW with his £18m floating charge over the club. HMRC know they can't get £59million from Rang*rs. that's not the point of the action. Any clever people on here know why Rang*rs are conceding the case and are willing to admit defeat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 More shadyness concerning CW here: http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-17021584 Just one thing more Dibbles......You fail to take into account the millions in tax that Rang*rs pay every season and HRMC will take that into account in either folding the company or having a new owner paying a similar amount Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 HMRC know they can't get £59million from Rang*rs. that's not the point of the action. Any clever people on here know why Rang*rs are conceding the case and are willing to admit defeat? Any clever people on here don't take it seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted February 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 HMRC know they can't get £59million from Rang*rs. that's not the point of the action. Quite right the point of it is to enforce the payment of unpaid taxes and the following of due process. That would certainly preclude believing in the 'promises to pay and the proven virtue" of the current r*ngers Chairman. DibblesOP has it hit on the head. There will be No Deal made by the HMRC with Whyte. Any clever people on here know why Rang*rs are conceding the case and are willing to admit defeat? It doesn't need "clever". Cos they're f**ked. Nowhere left to hide. It's not exactly No Surrender, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted February 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Just one thing more Dibbles......You fail to take into account the millions in tax that Rang*rs pay every season and HRMC will take that into account in either folding the company or having a new owner paying a similar amount Rongers have not been paying PAYE, VAT or NI since the Autumn... you're not very well informed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 It's quite simple....Administration ...no need for any strange takeover of a minor club. Did Motherwell do this? having £11milion of debt?....The truth will be told Stuart and I'm afraid you will be wrong again! Range*s out of admin will have a new owner and wil be ready for next season as usual. Oh FFS - Motherwell owed most of that £11m to John Boyle who agreed to write off the bulk of the money and are you really trying to say that Motherwell survived because the HMRC were worried about lost revenue through the massive amount of tax they pay on an annual basis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilsaint Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Reborn, give up, you're digging a hole. You clearly don't understand the possible insolvency processes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Reborn, give up, you're digging a hole. You clearly don't understand the possible insolvency processes. That's the point...you see I do and have been involved in it a few times. ....You don't have any knowlege of it and I know Range*s will be fine as Insolvency for a £60 million asset club dosn't even exist. You are not even wrong!. As Stuart says time will tell ....come back at the start of next season and apologise. Edited February 14, 2012 by reborn saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintargyll Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 That's the point...you see I do and have been involved in it a few times. ....You don't have any knowlege of it and I know Range*s will be fine as Insolvency for a £60 million asset club dosn't even exist. You are not even wrong!. As Stuart says time will tell ....come back at the start of next season and apologise. you'll find out sooner than that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted February 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) That's the point...you see i do and have been involved it it a few times. ....You don't have any knowlege of it and I know Range*s will be fine as Insolvency for a £60 million asset club dosn't even exist. You are not even wrong!. As Stuart says time will tell ....come back at the start of next season and apologise. How do you calculate/come up with/invent/magic the £60m asset? Have you just been ignoring the myriad debts owed by Rongers that have been posted on this thread? If you're thinking of Ibrokes, then not only does it have unaddressed h+s problems and ongoing maintenance costs, but assessments of its worth can only be as a functioning, filled football stadium... But if you've already flogged off the season tickets for several years ahead and if you already can't pay your other bills, then... What is it really worth? Cos that is an "important brick frontage" and would be difficult to flog off/destroy for flats n shops... If you're thinking of sellable players... They just need to hang in there to become free agents once the plug is pulled.. What assets are worth £60m? Edited February 14, 2012 by bluto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 How do you calculate/come up with/invent/magic the £60m asset? Have you just been ignoring the myriad debts owed by Rongers that have been posted on this thread? If you're thinking of Ibrokes, then not only does it have unaddressed h+s problems and ongoing maintenance costs, but assessments of its worth can only be as a functioning, filled football stadium... But if you've already flogged off the season tickets for several years ahead and if you already can't pay your other bills, then... What is it really worth? Cos that is an "important brick frontage" and would be difficult to flog off/destroy for flats n shops... If you're thinking of sellable players... They just need to hang in there to become free agents once the plug is pulled.. What assets are worth £60m? Let's add aw the assets up and see what we get. Broadfoot £0.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Quite Bluto - and if my colleague is right and David Murray does still own Murray Park that's another chunk of land based asset out of the equation. (I've done a small amount of investigation and it appears that the land there is owned by r*ngers Youth Development which two years ago was a wholly owned subsidiary of MIH). I suppose we'll find out soon enough if it was included in the sale of the club to Whyte or not and whether r*ngers FC actually do own it. It would probably be best for r*ngers if they don't right now. I'm not sure of the land values around Ibrox and Govan but there's so much vacant land and so many vacant offices it hardly looks like the stadium is on prime real estate. Edited February 14, 2012 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 you'll find out sooner than that Well you have them liquidated.....Stuart has them taking on another club....You are both wired to the moon and as the new season starts I will take pleasure in showing how wrong you were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintargyll Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 you protest much....why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 How do you calculate/come up with/invent/magic the £60m asset? Have you just been ignoring the myriad debts owed by Rongers that have been posted on this thread? If you're thinking of Ibrokes, then not only does it have unaddressed h+s problems and ongoing maintenance costs, but assessments of its worth can only be as a functioning, filled football stadium... But if you've already flogged off the season tickets for several years ahead and if you already can't pay your other bills, then... What is it really worth? Cos that is an "important brick frontage" and would be difficult to flog off/destroy for flats n shops... If you're thinking of sellable players... They just need to hang in there to become free agents once the plug is pulled.. What assets are worth £60m? You just have no idea how this works.....Blind ignorance at work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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