Stuart Dickson Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Death is considered being beyond a sensitive point. I reckon the AGM will reveal the downfall of 10,000,000 Hours and the rise of the McGeoch bid, at worst we will have a continuation of the current regime. Surely that should be the other way around. With 10000 hours now out of the picture at best you have a continuation of the current tired, bored and desperate to cash in regime and at worst you'll have a note of interest from a shareholder who has published absolutely no detail of what he might bid, or of who his financial backers are and what their plans for the club are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Surely that should be the other way around. With 10000 hours now out of the picture at best you have a continuation of the current tired, bored and desperate to cash in regime and at worst you'll have a note of interest from a shareholder who has published absolutely no detail of what he might bid, or of who his financial backers are and what their plans for the club are. Both of which I am comfortable with. Not the ego trip of one man who doesn't even have the decency to communicate with those whose money he wishes to use to advance his agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) Yeah, Scott. Look I get that you have some sort of personal issue with Richard Atkinson. That's up to you. I don't have much respect for Stewart Gilmour and I'm sure neither man will lose any sleep over our opinions of them. However one thing that strikes me is that the charge you are levelling at Richard Atkinson could just as easily be levelled at Stewart Gilmour. After all in one of his first acts as Chairman of the club he initiated a share floatation with the intention of advancing his agenda on the back of small investors money. Now the take up might not have been great but 13 years on one of his final acts as Chairman was to thank those who did invest by rendering their shares worthless as he formed a pact with a handful of others to ensure that only they would profit from their shares. I don't think there is any doubt that Atkinson was looking to massage his own ego, whilst enhancing his stature in the Third Sector, and most likely procuring business prospects and opportunities for his family company whilst he was at it - but his business model would never have left him in a position where he was able to sell shares for profit to the detriment of everyone else around him. No-one knows what McGeoch's plans are so I'm really surprised you are comfortable with it already. I just hope, for your sake, that your trust isn't down to your naivety. Edited November 17, 2011 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Yeah, Scott. Look I get that you have some sort of personal issue with Richard Atkinson. That's up to you. I don't have much respect for Stewart Gilmour and I'm sure neither man will lose any sleep over our opinions of them. However one thing that strikes me is that the charge you are levelling at Richard Atkinson could just as easily be levelled at Stewart Gilmour. After all in one of his first acts as Chairman of the club he initiated a share floatation with the intention of advancing his agenda on the back of small investors money. Now the take up might not have been great but 13 years on one of his final acts as Chairman was to thank those who did invest by rendering their shares worthless as he formed a pact with a handful of others to ensure that only they would profit from their shares. I don't think there is any doubt that Atkinson was looking to massage his own ego, whilst enhancing his stature in the Third Sector, and most likely procuring business prospects and opportunities for his family company whilst he was at it - but his business model would never have left him in a position where he was able to sell shares for profit to the detriment of everyone else around him. No-one knows what McGeoch's plans are so I'm really surprised you are comfortable with it already. I just hope, for your sake, that your trust isn't down to your naivety. All fair points Stuart no doubt about that. Gilmour's stewardship, like it or not, has been good for club. Sure he has played fast and loose at times but when dealing with the likes of Renfrewshire Cuntcil and trying to keep the club alive that was to be expected. Richard Atkinson's problem was that he made promises, albeit small ones, that ultimately were not his to deliver. The whole CIC thing was approached back to front from what I can see. Anyway I'm sure you will agree that there are far more deserving causes for public money than SMFC and the consortium retirement fund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 watch out yul, you'll be getting asked to back up your story or face having it deleted, it's only CIC lovers who can speculate on here, they will advise you that your post may be defamatory and will be deleted "for your own good" That's a bit of an odd slant as Davidg has always been on Yul's side of the fence. Once again, I repeat the same simple fact - the current rumour mongering is no better than the original mince from animal. I haven't been taking much interest in the CIC of late and even I know more than what is being posted regarding the "bids". The solution is the same as it has always been - speak to the club / speak to REA. The open door policy is the same as it always was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Yeah, Scott. Look I get that you have some sort of personal issue with Richard Atkinson. That's up to you. I don't have much respect for Stewart Gilmour and I'm sure neither man will lose any sleep over our opinions of them. However one thing that strikes me is that the charge you are levelling at Richard Atkinson could just as easily be levelled at Stewart Gilmour. After all in one of his first acts as Chairman of the club he initiated a share floatation with the intention of advancing his agenda on the back of small investors money. Now the take up might not have been great but 13 years on one of his final acts as Chairman was to thank those who did invest by rendering their shares worthless as he formed a pact with a handful of others to ensure that only they would profit from their shares. I don't think there is any doubt that Atkinson was looking to massage his own ego, whilst enhancing his stature in the Third Sector, and most likely procuring business prospects and opportunities for his family company whilst he was at it - but his business model would never have left him in a position where he was able to sell shares for profit to the detriment of everyone else around him. No-one knows what McGeoch's plans are so I'm really surprised you are comfortable with it already. I just hope, for your sake, that your trust isn't down to your naivety. Thing is SD at the moment if it is indeed KMcg making the running things are being done the right way round! that being no official statement on a proposal until it is one the sellers have received, done thier due dilligence on (hopefully this time without big dollar signs in their eyes) and are prepared to consider and put to the BoD, shareholders and support. That's the right way once the source of the funding has been verified and is available as the buyers suggest! Not RA's "back to front, half arsed, let's get the glasgow ladies football team doing your washing whilst you clap along to david icke type of proposal" which no one could know IF the money was ever going to follow the claims! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Thing is SD at the moment if it is indeed KMcg making the running things are being done the right way round! that being no official statement on a proposal until it is one the sellers have received, done thier due dilligence on (hopefully this time without big dollar signs in their eyes) and are prepared to consider and put to the BoD, shareholders and support. That's the right way once the source of the funding has been verified and is available as the buyers suggest! Not RA's "back to front, half arsed, let's get the glasgow ladies football team doing your washing whilst you clap along to david icke type of proposal" which no one could know IF the money was ever going to follow the claims! Is that from the (Yul's) Horse's mouth? Que sera Sera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Is that from the (Yul's) Horse's mouth? Que sera Sera whit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 whit? eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) watch out yul, you'll be getting asked to back up your story or face having it deleted, it's only CIC lovers who can speculate on here, they will advise you that your post may be defamatory and will be deleted "for your own good" You obviously have problems reading, see below. That's a bit of an odd slant as Davidg has always been on Yul's side of the fence. Yip Edited November 17, 2011 by davidg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 That's a bit of an odd slant as Davidg has always been on Yul's side of the fence. Once again, I repeat the same simple fact - the current rumour mongering is no better than the original mince from animal. I haven't been taking much interest in the CIC of late and even I know more than what is being posted regarding the "bids". The solution is the same as it has always been - speak to the club / speak to REA. The open door policy is the same as it always was. .. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..........what really????? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ........ speak to REA? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... oh good yin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Both of which I am comfortable with. Not the ego trip of one man who doesn't even have the decency to communicate with those whose money he wishes to use to advance his agenda. With the exception of reborn saint and lochwinnoch saint (?) i think most people who signed up for direct debits for the CIC seem fairly comfortable at the moment... yes ideally, we'd all like to know if the CIC is going to proceed or not and most of us probably wish there was some kind of email since it has been a few months since the previous meeting which was followed up a week or two later by SG saying the deal was expected to conclude within a fortnight. It is not like we are currently paying out our £10 a month with no communication from the CIC. I'm guessing most people who gave their direct debit details were positive or had goodwill towards the CIC and those leading the bid and many of us still hope it can proceed and are willing to cut RA some slack if it is still being worked on behind the scenes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Thing is SD at the moment if it is indeed KMcg making the running things are being done the right way round! that being no official statement on a proposal until it is one the sellers have received, done thier due dilligence on (hopefully this time without big dollar signs in their eyes) and are prepared to consider and put to the BoD, shareholders and support. That's the right way once the source of the funding has been verified and is available as the buyers suggest! Not RA's "back to front, half arsed, let's get the glasgow ladies football team doing your washing whilst you clap along to david icke type of proposal" which no one could know IF the money was ever going to follow the claims! As of the last CIC meeting £1.3m was if i remember correctly ready to draw down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 As of the last CIC meeting £1.3m was if i remember correctly ready to draw down? A rhetorical question not directed at you. If that is the case why has there been no progress? Surely £700k could have been found from pledges/extended membership/new business to plug the gap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 At the last CIC meeting RA did say that a new social funder had offered money that hadn't been applied for by 10,000 Hours and they could look at that. RA also said that if the final piece in the jigsaw to complete the deal didn't materialise there was a plan B route that 10,000 Hours could look at... he did say something to the effect that he didn't even want to contemplate the plan B at that time as they were so close to completing the deal under plan A and had put so much time and energy into plan A that he didn't want to begin thinking about plan B unless it became necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 At the last CIC meeting RA did say that a new social funder had offered money that hadn't been applied for by 10,000 Hours and they could look at that. RA also said that if the final piece in the jigsaw to complete the deal didn't materialise there was a plan B route that 10,000 Hours could look at... he did say something to the effect that he didn't even want to contemplate the plan B at that time as they were so close to completing the deal under plan A and had put so much time and energy into plan A that he didn't want to begin thinking about plan B unless it became necessary. I think he doth "PlanB-Th" too much" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 What plan are we on to now? Are there enough letters in the alphabet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Dibble is falling into the same trap as stoppit posters like somner9. Speculating were no speculating is required. All of the funding is in place and as Dibble clumsily points out above additional funding has been offered. All funding areas are now oversubscribed from the social ent orgs, the fans, the community members and the commercial members. Progress is being made on the outstanding issue, which is not financial. The details are not being made available to stop well meaning bunny boilers like TL holding rallies outside of peoples doors, which as much as I'd like to see it happen would prove counter productive. If the details of the issue were to be released those slating Richie Rich would feel very silly indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktf Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Dibble is falling into the same trap as stoppit posters like somner9. Speculating were no speculating is required. All of the funding is in place and as Dibble clumsily points out above additional funding has been offered. All funding areas are now oversubscribed from the social ent orgs, the fans, the community members and the commercial members. Progress is being made on the outstanding issue, which is not financial. The details are not being made available to stop well meaning bunny boilers like TL holding rallies outside of peoples doors, which as much as I'd like to see it happen would prove counter productive. If the details of the issue were to be released those slating Richie Rich would feel very silly indeed. Sometime it's utter pish and other times it's on the money... I'll leave it to the other posters' imaginations as to what this post is FWIW, GD to you buddie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktf Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 .. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..........what really????? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ........ speak to REA? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... oh good yin! Hmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 With the exception of reborn saint and lochwinnoch saint (?) i think most people who signed up for direct debits for the CIC seem fairly comfortable at the moment... yes ideally, we'd all like to know if the CIC is going to proceed or not and most of us probably wish there was some kind of email since it has been a few months since the previous meeting which was followed up a week or two later by SG saying the deal was expected to conclude within a fortnight. It is not like we are currently paying out our £10 a month with no communication from the CIC. I'm guessing most people who gave their direct debit details were positive or had goodwill towards the CIC and those leading the bid and many of us still hope it can proceed and are willing to cut RA some slack if it is still being worked on behind the scenes. 10000Hrs cic was the reason I joined this forum. I have spat the dummy out on many occasions when the cic missed deadlines. I blamed the funders for the time lag and REA for not setting a completion date. I will be devastated if this fails as all other bids offer no hope of anything other than stagnation. it obviously has it's faults but offers hope to take the community and club forward..........So take me off your list as CIC doubters as I have never said anything against the CIC only a frustration of the lack of information and delay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 You obviously have problems reading, see below. Yip sorry i didn't realise that if your on the same side of the fence then your posts are fine , that's what's being implied here is it not, or maybe schoolmaster is right and i can't read or write Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) 10000Hrs cic was the reason I joined this forum. I have spat the dummy out on many occasions when the cic missed deadlines. I blamed the funders for the time lag and REA for not setting a completion date. I will be devastated if this fails as all other bids offer no hope of anything other than stagnation. it obviously has it's faults but offers hope to take the community and club forward..........So take me off your list as CIC doubters as I have never said anything against the CIC only a frustration of the lack of information and delay. What's your definition of stagnation and why would other bids lead to this? Ken McGeoch is one of the BOD's who have taken us from fighting relegation from the 1st division to a club with top class facilities and a team trying to break into the top 6 of the SPL. Edited November 18, 2011 by davidg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) What's your definition of stagnation and why would other bids lead to this? Ken McGeoch is one of the BOD's who have taken us from fighting relegation from the 1st division to a club with top class facilities and a team trying to break into the top 6 of the SPL. Any bid for the club other than a cic will require £2m of debt. Ken McGeoch is and has been a great servant to St Mirren. I understand that the cic has debt but it it's supported by a fan base of 800 to pay £120 per year.. The potential of our club to grow in the community of Renfrewshire needs a cic. We can only grow with more people attending games and buying season tickets. We all love to be associated with good causes and the cic should provide them. To sum up .....Ken or anyone else needs their £2M back as they are not rich enough to donate it. Edited November 17, 2011 by reborn saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Any bid for the club other than a cic will require £2m of debt. Ken McGeoch is and has been a great servant to St Mirren. I understand that the cic has debt but it it's supported by a fan base of 800 to pay £120 per year.. The potential of our club to grow in the community of Renfrewshire needs a cic. We can only grow with more people attending games and buying season tickets. We all love to be associated with good causes and the cic should provide them. To sum up .....Ken or anyone else needs their £2M back as they are not rich enough to donate it. Those two statements highlighted in bold? First one is obviously incorrect as unless you have the detail of any proposal the selling consortium are considering accepting! how could you know? Second one: what is this £2m that anyone potentially buying the club needs back? and where are they getting it back from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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