Guest somner9 Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 When 10000 hours give a full breakdown then perhaps more pledgers will sign up. If they insist on keeping schtum on the supporters bar costs/set up/profit distribution until after a deal is signed it will come back to bite their arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Lyle Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Let's assume, let's assume, let's assume. Is there a business plan to this? Let's assume 1500 sign and pay their dues for 12 months. Let's assume after 3 years membership drops to below 1000 due to any circumstances which may pop up. Could be the state of Scottish football, newco r*ngers voted back in and fans thinking, what am I getting for my 10 quid a month. What happens then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) but they might get an offer of using a room in the stadium for hosting a business meeting, an invite to the directors lounge, the sort of thing that has an intrinsic value to the buyer but which does not affect the clubs revenue. What don't you agree with ? 10000Hours can offer members "perks" that have no current financial value to the football club. Right you're shifting ground here by inserting current into the statement - are you're saying that the club should have no right to monies generated by "the void" even if the funding to develop it comes from the CIC beyond a basic rent (and who's gonna decide what level to set it at?), it seems to me just a case of the CIC piggybacking on the club. Secondly if there is no value to the club in an invitation to the director's lounge then they'll have no problems with me rolling up on a Saturday afternoon. Again my objection is the relationship between the club & the CIC - with the CIC controlling the club I just don't see how there cannot be conflicts of interest. In actual fact I get a lot of my existing work from within the St.Mirren community. I did a website yesterday for a client who was introduced to me by a fellow St.Mirren supporter. Which really begs the question what does the CIC offer that the club couldn't? Edited April 17, 2012 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) Challenging Div isn't really fair. He's saying things that I disagree with in his posts but very little has been set in stone and even REA wouldn't be able to provide definitive answers on some of the questions being put to Div just now. What everyone has to remember is that this is a member ownership business model. As with any other membership owned organisation members will be able to propose, second and then vote on almost anything within the structure. On that basis I don't see how anyone can definitively rule out membership perks that may take income away from the club or definitively decide that once the loans are all paid off that £250k per annum would be put into the playing budget. Perhaps you could stipulate that it's highly unlikely that the membership would ever allow for products or services to be offered out of the club that would affect revenue, but if a case could be made for a perk that could be backed up with a rational and persuasive argument then there is also no reason why the membership might not agree to go for it. Edited April 17, 2012 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Which really begs the question what does the CIC offer that the club couldn't? There's absolutely no reason why the club (I assume we mean the existing BOD and staff) couldn't do everything the CIC could. Which really begs the question - why haven't they? Answer - they have done their bit. By their own admission, they have done their shift, they are out of puff, ideas, drive, enthusism to carry on, and the time is right for them to hand over to the next custodians of the club. Their legacy is a sound one, history will judge them kindly - although the cracks are now very publicly visible, and it isn't pretty. Very much time to draw a line in the sand and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 What happens when the punters get bored of paying this monthly fee? I can't see 1500 fans continuing with this payment for the 7 years or so quoted. If the fans stopped being members en masse and turned their back on 10000Hours for whatever reason, leading to 10000Hours being unable to meet their loan repayments then one of the following two things would happen; 1) The deal with the funders would be restructured to meet the income that was still coming in Or 2) The majority shareholding that 10000Hours owned in St.Mirren Football Club Ltd would likely be sold to the highest bidder Given the prospect of (2) happening then I would hope that St.Mirren supporters wouldn't turn their back on 10000Hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Challenging Div isn't really fair. He's saying things that I disagree with in his posts but very little has been set in stone and even REA wouldn't be able to provide definitive answers on some of the questions being put to Div just now. What everyone has to remember is that this is a member ownership business model. As with any other membership owned organisation members will be able to propose, second and then vote on almost anything within the structure. On that basis I don't see how anyone can definitively rule out membership perks that may take income away from the club or definitively decide that once the loans are all paid off that £250k per annum would be put into the playing budget. Perhaps you could stipulate that it's highly unlikely that the membership would ever allow for products or services to be offered out of the club that would affect revenue, but if a case could be made for a perk that could be backed up with a rational and persuasive argument then there is also no reason why the membership might not agree to go for it. There are other issues with offering perks which have a retail value as 10000Hours is not VAT registered for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Let's assume, let's assume, let's assume. Is there a business plan to this? Let's assume 1500 sign and pay their dues for 12 months. Let's assume after 3 years membership drops to below 1000 due to any circumstances which may pop up. Could be the state of Scottish football, newco r*ngers voted back in and fans thinking, what am I getting for my 10 quid a month. What happens then? There is a business plan that was robust enough to get an agreement in principle for the lending of £1m. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 There are other issues with offering perks which have a retail value as 10000Hours is not VAT registered for example. It will be though, or at least divisions of it will be. Otherwise it would be unable to trade in order to gain revenue from it's own activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 There's absolutely no reason why the club (I assume we mean the existing BOD and staff) couldn't do everything the CIC could. Which really begs the question - why haven't they? Answer - they have done their bit. By their own admission, they have done their shift, they are out of puff, ideas, drive, enthusism to carry on, and the time is right for them to hand over to the next custodians of the club. Their legacy is a sound one, history will judge them kindly - although the cracks are now very publicly visible, and it isn't pretty. Very much time to draw a line in the sand and move on. Perhaps the BoD but what about our General & Commercial managers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 I know for a fact a lot more would sign up, but they are being denied full disclosure on how things like the Void fit-out costs and repayment will be set up! the money has to come from somewhere, and somewhere will obviously want it back plus interest, why wouldn't they. That would follow (big assumption) that the profits from supporters bar would be going to pay off the fit out for a considerable period. It would be better imo to tell everyone what the arrangement here is and let them decide, If it all comes out after the event and it's not what some/many expected then a few D/D's might get chopped It's no doubt been lost in all the debate, but I do recall something about CIC events being held in that area primarily paying it off and that discounts could also be given so long as those drove social return and killed two birds with one stone so to speak. Funnily enough I don't remember very many questions about it, but I'm almost certain it was a case that any money that would currently go to the club would not be redirected to pay off the void area.With regards to cashflow or investment, as asked by a few others (apologies, this may involve "Ebbsfleet"). This is something that needs to be tackled very early on, with a good understanding given of how the clubs current budget is made up and where/how holes have been filled. I gave pretty much the same style of report to the members of MYFC on Ebbsfleet's budget, sadly it was far too late and after things started going downhill. A report showing the budget with all it's little nooks, crannies, peaks and troughs, combined with a good core of 10000 Hours members who understand the need for extra donation, could easily handle the cashflow issue...but maybe not the investement. It may, for example, be difficult to understand that 30K is better as a cashflow float than squad investment, but that is just one of the cold hard facts that we're all going to be faced with when 10000 Hours goes through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 What happens when the punters get bored of paying this monthly fee? I can't see 1500 fans continuing with this payment for the 7 years or so quoted. *ducks behind a wall*For all the tearing it apart, Ebbsfleet still has a figure of support around that figure amongst the MYFC membership. I don't see any reason why 10000 Hours couldn't get the same through the club's current support, lapsed fans, people within the area, general football fans worldwide (yes, let's drop the they need to be fans nonsense now) and all the wee pockets of individuals who you wouldn't expect to be interested. We may need to open the door a little bit more than "hey, come in and vote some people on a board or two and get reports back", actually we will as even I'll get bored if we don't. Still, don't see any reason why we can't take the good things from MYFC's current model and run with it... oh and forget Clyde, they're a template for nothing but the articles of association are useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Plenty of good questions coming out which I will pass on to 10000Hours. My question is, why don't people ask 10000Hours themselves about things they are concerned about ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Plenty of good questions coming out which I will pass on to 10000Hours. My question is, why don't people ask 10000Hours themselves about things they are concerned about ? If this thread had a "Boaby" your question had the effect of hitting hard with a rolled up newspaper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Banjos Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 From the 10,000 hours update a month ago: http://www.10000hours.org/news/129-10000hours-update The Fan base needs to demonstrate that in monthly subscriptions or one off donations it can raise £250,000 in the next two years, basically the same as just over 1000 £10 per month members The 87 Club needs to be fully subscribed with 87 Members. To reach £250,000 on the tenner a month scheme, they need (by my calculations) 1042 pledgers. According to the website, 1027 have pledged so far, so that's almost in place. Should just be a case of chasing everyone up to get the direct debit forms in. Seems that it's going to come down to getting 87 businesses / individuals to pay £3000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 I believe, but don't quote me on this, that there around 50 or so expressions of interest already in the 87 club. I am guessing that number is made up of the 20 odds who were down to pay £10k pa in the original model plus other smaller businesses like mine who have said they would be up for it based on what I have seen. The deal I have seen for the 87 club is a good one IMO. I expect all the details on that to be released this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Banjos Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) Not too far away at all then. 250 pledgers to get their direct debit details in (£60,000 over 2 years) and about 40 more needed for the '87 club (£120,000). Edited April 17, 2012 by Julian Banjos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Plenty of good questions coming out which I will pass on to 10000Hours. My question is, why don't people ask 10000Hours themselves about things they are concerned about ? Cos they take an age to answer - unlike yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Lyle Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Cos they take an age to answer - unlike yourself. If they answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Ok, I will try and get some answers on some of the questions raised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) I've never had a problem getting an answer. The 10000hours forum doesn't appear to be well monitored but e-mailing [email protected] has always got me a fairly quick response. Course maybe that's cause of my popularity with all the members of the St Mirren board..... Edited April 17, 2012 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Lyle Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Ok, I will try and get some answers on some of the questions raised. Tbf, anyone can contact Richard but they choose not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 I've never had a problem getting an answer. The 10000hours forum doesn't appear to be well monitored but e-mailing [email protected] has always got me a fairly quick response. Course maybe that's cause of my popularity with all the members of the St Mirren board..... Yeah I would think any emails would get a response fairly quickly to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 One question....are there any SNP cnutcillors backing fan ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltcoatsbuddie Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 im positive ive signed up ,but no record on 10000 site ,re done it ,maybe others have went missing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.