bluto Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Seems to have worked reasonably well in Norway, where the government is the majority shareholder in Statoil!Obviously. Sigh.But it's been shown on this forum many times that a Scottish government would not be starting from the same place as Norway did, nor with the same social and financial systems in place. I was wholly sympathetic when Iraq kicked out our oil cartel and decided to go it alone. It meant deals with Russia and South Africa and whoever would take their oil and prices were not as good, but...it was independence. They kicked out the Capitalists who had control of all the refineries and distribution chains(service stations) in the oil-guzzling West. And took their chance. Nationalists don't even want their own currency or to ditch the monarchy, so there's fat chance of Capitalism being even mildly ruffled! The point I was making to Ian, and that you didn't address, is that there should be no expectation of oil industry execs moving to Scotland, just cos (for the sake of argument) it's Scotland's oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 There are new efficient nuclear reactors ordered which will entirely reduce the need for any windmills. Fossil fuels are not "dwindling" either. Maybe in the north sea but England in particular sits on enough gas to keep the entire UK supplied for hundreds of years at present use. I've stated on here before that the NGS have known what is under our feet and has been releasing that information in bite sized chunks. We have more shale gas that the entire US. At the moment we are importing that gas to keep a part of Grangemouth operational. Stupid? Yep. The problem with renewables is that they don't work nd they dont produce energy as and when required. I could bore you to death with some actual output figures for the entire wind array in the UK if you like and every other method of producing energy. In spite of the claims made by the green lobby, renewables just arent hacking it at all. They are costing us money and they are harming our economy. We need cheap, plentiful energy. Renewable dont supply that right now. In duie course it MAY do, but it doesnt right now and its stupidity to continue to throw money away at them until they prove themselves. Working in the world's largest renewablescompany, I can get you all the facts you want. The key facts are that fossils are in their last century, and shale deposits are not that recoverable (california recently advised that as little as 10% of known reserves are actually going to be used). Also, nuclear is energy now and trouble later-we cant keep lumping the responsibility for the clean up on generations yet to be born. If you are so well informed you will surely realise that technology will only be developed to a viable level if people actually employ and refine it in an operational setting. Already we arelooking at wind turbine generators that can supply 10 times the output of the so-called state of the art machines of the 90s-all down to companies and governments investing in the technology. come the day, solar,tidal, new and better hydro and hopefully geothermals will supply the bulk of our energy mix, but only if there is investment and development now. How the hell do you think we got to the point where nuclear was developd to the point where production was economically viable (but only with horrendous government subsidies-once again lumped onto the generations yet to come) Don't you think it is time we solved a few problems for the future rather than created more lazy solutions that our kids will suffer for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Obviously. Sigh. But it's been shown on this forum many times that a Scottish government would not be starting from the same place as Norway did, nor with the same social and financial systems in place. I was wholly sympathetic when Iraq kicked out our oil cartel and decided to go it alone. It meant deals with Russia and South Africa and whoever would take their oil and prices were not as good, but...it was independence. They kicked out the Capitalists who had control of all the refineries and distribution chains(service stations) in the oil-guzzling West. And took their chance. Nationalists don't even want their own currency or to ditch the monarchy, so there's fat chance of Capitalism being even mildly ruffled! The point I was making to Ian, and that you didn't address, is that there should be no expectation of oil industry execs moving to Scotland, just cos (for the sake of argument) it's Scotland's oil. every company will follow the money and if the right conditions are created, country companies will be established where political power is wielded. No one is suggesting that whole corporations wil be moved lock, stock and barrel, simply that there will be a boost as companes follow the money (and the power). And you have avoided the point i made about pegging to other currencies has been very good for certain other small countries and what the hell has the head of the commonwealth got to do with independence. Canada and Australia have a very healthy relationship with her and so should we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Seriously, Billy Bragg? He is a real tit of a man. At the last General Election he switched his support to the Lib Dems thinking they suited his socialist agenda. I think he goes from cause to cause desperately trying to find some relevance. He's a shit musician, a crap song writer and a woefully inept political commentator / activist. And his record of picking winners ranks as lowly as John Coughlin FFS. Seriously, Billy Bragg? He is a real tit of a man. At the last General Election he switched his support to the Lib Dems thinking they suited his socialist agenda. I think he goes from cause to cause desperately trying to find some relevance. He's a shit musician, a crap song writer and a woefully inept political commentator / activist. And his record of picking winners ranks as lowly as John Coughlin FFS. Your opinion on Billy Bragg sounds like a mirror refection outwith the music. You were once all for Independence. For sure you write political mumbo jumbo the similarities are uncanny ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) I try to be reasonable when I venture onto this one Aw f**k off bluto you can't POSSIBLY believe this to be true. For over 250 pages you've behaved like the same patronising c**t as everyone else on the No side. Don't delude yourself that you're the voice of reason. Edited July 26, 2014 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Obviously. Sigh. What point of that contribution wouldn't get you a kick in the baws in the local pub? Reasonable? I think you need to consult that dictionary of yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 no she didn't Oh yes she did. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Duke Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Oh yes she did. . No she didn't. Margaret Thatcher was great for Scotland. That's why she won more votes in Scotland than the SNP have ever achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Duke Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Come back to me when you show some understanding of the science behind what you are championing. In what way is Nuclear power renewable? What happens when the Uranium and plutonium runs out? What happens when we run out of oil? How does wee Aggie from the estates heat her soup when we have no gas left? Answer this and you might win some credibility. This from the guy who can't even multiply by 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 This from the guy who can't even multiply by 4. : This from a guy in County Down with a union flag. How is the flute playing going ? Never mind August is almost upon us it can be put away until next July Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) every company will follow the money and if the right conditions are created, country companies will be established where political power is wielded. No one is suggesting that whole corporations wil be moved lock, stock and barrel, simply that there will be a boost as companes follow the money (and the power). i know this can be possible. Everything is possible. However, I posted about past knowledge in a particular area. I posted about how oil companies work. As had IoB saint. The current way in which oil companies operate still interests me. You drift off of that point and speculate on what MAY possibly come to pass. And you have avoided the point i made about pegging to other currencies has been very good for certain other small countries sorry, I doubt I've ever read about such a point being raised... Similarly, I avoided making a point about how independence may impact the textile industry in the Borders. I dunno if anyone has mentioned that, either. Just for a laugh, though... Which small countries have actually flourished in the manner you describe? and what the hell has the head of the commonwealth got to do with independence. Canada and Australia have a very healthy relationship with her and so should we. Neither Canada nor Australia has a society so completely riven by class as this one. Which is why removing the monarchy would be a healthy step for Scotland. The monarchy is its apogee. I apologise for not making it clearer that I see a strong correlation between tackling (my perceived) flaws of Capitalism, the fact that this proposed "freedom vote" is scared to tackle that leads to the sad conclusion that nothing will change for the better... Other than that Scotland will be further separated from wielding power Apologies for clunkiness of the response, (from a foreign small country using the Euro) on my wummin's ipad,... which she wants back again. Edited July 26, 2014 by bluto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Mind made up, I'll be voting YES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Mind made up, I'll be voting YES. Davidg, you're far too sexy to be voting yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 New panelbase poll out it in Sunday Times today. No 48(+2) Yes 41 (-2) Without DK's: No 54 (+2) Yes 46 (-2) When even yes friendly polls like panelbase have yes losing ground, you know how much trouble they're in. More great news for the better together campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Surprise! Surprise! http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/financial-times-investors-magazine-westminster-is-playing-down-potential-oi.24868958 There's more. A quote from an interview (by Tom Gordon of The Sunday herald) with Danny Alexander. TG - Was putting the Start-up cost of independence at £2.7bn using Professor Patrick Dunleavy's work a "misbriefing"? DA - Well, em, it was purely illustrative ... it was clearly, em, eh, it's been taken and was perhaps briefed to mean much more than it actually did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 No she didn't. Oh , yes she did. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Surprise! Surprise! http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/financial-times-investors-magazine-westminster-is-playing-down-potential-oi.24868958 There's more. A quote from an interview (by Tom Gordon of The Sunday herald) with Danny Alexander. TG - Was putting the Start-up cost of independence at £2.7bn using Professor Patrick Dunleavy's work a "misbriefing"? DA - Well, em, it was purely illustrative ... it was clearly, em, eh, it's been taken and was perhaps briefed to mean much more than it actually did. New panelbase poll out it in Sunday Times today. No 48(+2) Yes 41 (-2) Without DK's: No 54 (+2) Yes 46 (-2) When even yes friendly polls like panelbase have yes losing ground, you know how much trouble they're in. More great news for the better together campaign. Game over. If the Natsi s don't cancel the referendum this will be an utter rout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Game over. If the Natsi s don't cancel the referendum this will be an utter routHow can we take anything you write seriously. 1/ You were for Independence then changed your mind to become a fully pledged Tory voter. 2/ You supported St Mirren then stopped supporting St Mirren to Support Sunderland. Now you are back supporting St Mirren again. Stuart the pattern is easy to see. You are a lost wee soul , apologies large soul seeking out attention by disagreeing with the masses. If we were all Tory on here odds on you would be for the communist party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 seems the herald is running a story that the FT has reported the government underplaying the potential for north sea oil cash flows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 How can we take anything you write seriously. 1/ You were for Independence then changed your mind to become a fully pledged Tory voter. 2/ You supported St Mirren then stopped supporting St Mirren to Support Sunderland. Now you are back supporting St Mirren again. Stuart the pattern is easy to see. You are a lost wee soul , apologies large soul seeking out attention by disagreeing with the masses. If we were all Tory on here odds on you would be for the communist party. 1. Always been a Tory. Prior to 1999 i thought independence might work but it's clear it would never be in Scotlands interests. 2. I was a Sunderland supporter long before I supported St Mirren. I think I was 3 years old when Dennis Tueart was my hero. I did support St Miiren, but after the disgusting sacking of Tom Hendrie I renounced my support. Currently my favourite Scottish side is Wishaw Wycombe 98s. I have no idea where you get the idea that I've resumed supporting St Mirren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northendsaint Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 The only poll i,ve ever taken part in is this one.Nobody has stopped me in street to ask me which way i would vote.I did take a call from a local Labour councillor who was extremely rude when i told her i was voting yes.Even when i said i had very good friends who were sitting Labour councillors she was still rude even though she had invited herself into my home by calling me.I know very few people voting no and have no doubt the YES vote will have a massive majority which will take everyone by surprise.Freedom come all ye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 The only poll i,ve ever taken part in is this one.Nobody has stopped me in street to ask me which way i would vote.I did take a call from a local Labour councillor who was extremely rude when i told her i was voting yes.Even when i said i had very good friends who were sitting Labour councillors she was still rude even though she had invited herself into my home by calling me.I know very few people voting no and have no doubt the YES vote will have a massive majority which will take everyone by surprise.Freedom come all ye. Want to put a wager on the result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Want to put a wager on the result?You sound desperate Lex trying to convince everyone. What will be will be Lex. I did a tour of the outer Hebrides and it's clear they will be voting yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'll be voting yes but I reckon the no vote will come out on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northendsaint Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Want to put a wager on the result? Naw or should i say YES.Gambling is a mugs game so i will go for a beer with you to celebrate freedom from Westminster.I will of course pay so you can be a winner too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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