Stuart Dickson Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Don't understand your interest here Stuart.Surely you would never travel on a budget airline anyway. Never have done and I can't imagine I ever will do. Even this year when I'm looking at a cheaper holiday than usual I'm still flying BA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 The whole Ryanair event today was typical O'Leary publicity but in reality it was much adoo about nothing. Built it up into a frenzy to create a media scrum expecting a major announcement that could have political repecussions but in reality it was maximum free publicity for what was basically a regaular Ryanair route shuffle. The flights lost from Prestwick will have very little impact on the recent investment (the Eastern Europeans barely spend a penny piece in the airport or in-flight) and the main income / work generation at Prestwick, the Ryanair maintainance hub, is not affected which is the main thing. O'Leary really is a wise / shrewd / ruthless operator. He will hold Glasgow bosses to ransome the way he has done with Prestiwck over the years in an attempt to drive down costs at every opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 The whole Ryanair event today was typical O'Leary publicity but in reality it was much adoo about nothing. Built it up into a frenzy to create a media scrum expecting a major announcement that could have political repecussions but in reality it was maximum free publicity for what was basically a regaular Ryanair route shuffle. The flights lost from Prestwick will have very little impact on the recent investment (the Eastern Europeans barely spend a penny piece in the airport or in-flight) and the main income / work generation at Prestwick, the Ryanair maintainance hub, is not affected which is the main thing. O'Leary really is a wise / shrewd / ruthless operator. He will hold Glasgow bosses to ransome the way he has done with Prestiwck over the years in an attempt to drive down costs at every opportunity. Probably, but unlike Prestwick, Glasgow and Edinburgh are not solely reliant on just one operator - which is why the Scottish Government shouldn't have involved the Scottish taxpayer in any of this. It's not a bank bail out situation where if Prestwick Airport closes we're all f**ked. We can afford to lose one airport that has been running a long way short of capacity since the 1970's and which seems to suffer perennial news stories about it's financial troubles. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 The whole Ryanair event today was typical O'Leary publicity but in reality it was much adoo about nothing. Built it up into a frenzy to create a media scrum expecting a major announcement that could have political repecussions but in reality it was maximum free publicity for what was basically a regaular Ryanair route shuffle. The flights lost from Prestwick will have very little impact on the recent investment (the Eastern Europeans barely spend a penny piece in the airport or in-flight) and the main income / work generation at Prestwick, the Ryanair maintainance hub, is not affected which is the main thing. O'Leary really is a wise / shrewd / ruthless operator. He will hold Glasgow bosses to ransome the way he has done with Prestiwck over the years in an attempt to drive down costs at every opportunity. I think it is a big deal. We are seeing Prestwick's ops halved, sure they go down for the winter, but not only that they are moving to a new rival airport and increasing service frequencies and starting new routes. This will hurt an already loss making airport owned by the taxpayers, with no other operators at it. Sure he has managed to get max publicity out of it, but it is pretty major news and bad news for Prestwick. He'll attempt to drive down Glasgow's costs, but they have Jet 2, Easyjet, Wizz as other low cost operators, Prestwick doesn't have that leverage. Equally if the routes do well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 I think it is a big deal. We are seeing Prestwick's ops halved, sure they go down for the winter, but not only that they are moving to a new rival airport and increasing service frequencies and starting new routes. This will hurt an already loss making airport owned by the taxpayers, with no other operators at it. Sure he has managed to get max publicity out of it, but it is pretty major news and bad news for Prestwick. He'll attempt to drive down Glasgow's costs, but they have Jet 2, Easyjet, Wizz as other low cost operators, Prestwick doesn't have that leverage. Equally if the routes do well.... Number of flights wise yes it is news worthy but the cost to Prestwick in real terms is nowhere near as bad as we were being lead to believe it might be. As I have said before the passenger business at Prestwick is small beer financially, it's the aero industry jobs the airport supports that's them main issue locally. As for the money being pumped into the passenger facilities at the airport that's still not really that big a deal. Your main "bucket and spade" and stag / hen flights are still going to operate out of Prestwick. The Polish flights are nearly all used by Polish workers as a commute back and forward for work - they barely spend a penny in the airport as it is. it's the holiday crowd and stag and hen travellers that spend big on site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepaisleypanda Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Probably, but unlike Prestwick, Glasgow and Edinburgh are not solely reliant on just one operator - which is why the Scottish Government shouldn't have involved the Scottish taxpayer in any of this. It's not a bank bail out situation where if Prestwick Airport closes we're all f**ked. We can afford to lose one airport that has been running a long way short of capacity since the 1970's and which seems to suffer perennial news stories about it's financial troubles. . That's that then? - Is that your convincing argument for a NO vote? That really is what this thread is all about, but, YOU aren't intelligent enough to realise that Sep 18 is not about Salmond / Sturgeon bashing or supporting. Sadly, I feel that is becoming more of the issue generally. People aren't grasping that this isn't just "another election" - & "I wont vote Yes cos. I don't like Alex Salmond" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) That's that then? - Is that your convincing argument for a NO vote? That really is what this thread is all about, but, YOU aren't intelligent enough to realise that Sep 18 is not about Salmond / Sturgeon bashing or supporting. Sadly, I feel that is becoming more of the issue generally. People aren't grasping that this isn't just "another election" - & "I wont vote Yes cos. I don't like Alex Salmond" Oh dear - is this how the Yes Campaign is going to deal with it's heavy defeat. Instead of accepting that Scots just don't see any benefit in the kind of independence being pushed forward by the Yes Campaign, they are going to try to fudge it so that it's more a case that Scots didn't understand the question. That's piss poor. Plenty of people don't like Alex Salmond, myself included. Plenty of people don't like the current Scottish Government, myself included. But the reason I'll be voting No in September is because the Yes Campaign has spectacularly failed to make it's case in any credible way whatsoever to prove to me that I will unequivocally all be better off financially after September if the nation votes Yes. I warned you of this right back at the start of the campaign. Most Scots will grumble about the status quo, but we at least know what we've got and we understand how it works. I'd liken this referendum to being in a burning building. The fire alarm is ringing and there are two fire wardens. One is telling you that the safest way to get out of the building is down the stairs, the other is telling you to jump cause you're only five floors up. The stairs seems the reasonable option, after all I use the stairs every other day - especially when the lift is broken - so I guess I would only jump from the window if the fire warden trying to convince me to do that was able to show me that I'll be safer jumping from the fifth floor window than I would be going down the stairs. Now in the referendum campaign so far the No Campaign has managed to show that the stairs aren't blocked. Going that way is perfectly safe. It might get a little warm but we aren't likely to die going that way, indeed the firemen are here and currently on the stairwell trying to make it even safer. So the window option doesn't look very good especially since that fire wardens only assurance seems to be that you should trust him that everything will be OK when you hit the ground, and that you shouldn't trust firemen. Edited July 4, 2014 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykey Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Except the warden recommending the stairs is going to charge you for using them every day of your life, and double today because there is a fire, then him and his pals are going to have a party at a much nicer building with your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepaisleypanda Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Is there not a chute paid for by other people nearby, who have absolutely no benefit from it? http://hs2.org.uk/ Or, is the fire-warden just trying to keep you safe because you make him too much money? http://bit.ly/1vEUtvF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Most Scots will grumble about the status quo, but we at least know what we've got and we understand how it works. This is the salient point. People know the status quo, they might not like it and moan about aspects of it, but they understand how it effects them. In the grand scheme of things, people are selfish and whilst they might not agree with welfare cuts or bedroom taxes, they don't affect a huge number of people so "I'm alright Jack" always comes into play. The Yes campaign need to demonstrate how they will improve the economy and that people will not be worse off. If they can shift that they have a slight chance. At the moment, polling suggests 40-49% think they will be worse off in an independent Scotland so thus a Yes vote on that level would have little chance. Most polling seems to think the no currency union by the UK government was a bluff however and think a No vote will mean more powers. I think Yes need to emphasise about the economy better, emphasise the increased democracy of Scotland getting the elected representatives it wants and challenge the impression of a no vote meaning more powers. I think we'll get a clearer picture after the debates and as we close in on the run up on whether people can really be convinced one way or the other, plus a major bollock from one side could affect things. Personally I'm not sure either way at the moment, neither option really fits what I'd like! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 This is the salient point. People know the status quo, they might not like it and moan about aspects of it, but they understand how it effects them. In the grand scheme of things, people are selfish and whilst they might not agree with welfare cuts or bedroom taxes, they don't affect a huge number of people so "I'm alright Jack" always comes into play. The Yes campaign need to demonstrate how they will improve the economy and that people will not be worse off. If they can shift that they have a slight chance. At the moment, polling suggests 40-49% think they will be worse off in an independent Scotland so thus a Yes vote on that level would have little chance. Most polling seems to think the no currency union by the UK government was a bluff however and think a No vote will mean more powers. I think Yes need to emphasise about the economy better, emphasise the increased democracy of Scotland getting the elected representatives it wants and challenge the impression of a no vote meaning more powers. I think we'll get a clearer picture after the debates and as we close in on the run up on whether people can really be convinced one way or the other, plus a major bollock from one side could affect things. Personally I'm not sure either way at the moment, neither option really fits what I'd like! Agreed. Neither option fits what I'd like either, but scrapping devolution and leaving Europe doesn't appear to be on any political parties agenda. It should always have been in the Yes Campaigns hands though. They know people in general are resistant to change and that they aren't likely to vote for change unless an incredibly strong case is made for change. Yet they have failed to put any information out there in terms of costings that can stand up to even the most basic of scrutiny. Their early campaign line of referring everyone back to the White Paper - which I think they hoped no-one would ever read and where they forgot that people who can work the search function on a computer could scrutinise with a few clicks on a button - was very quickly found out. They also chose the wrong leader. He's fostered an image that makes it easy for the other side to put this together. He may think it makes him look heroic, but all it really does is show just how much he has managed to alienate the Yes Campaign and how he has undermined claims that we'd all be better off. Sad really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Except the warden recommending the stairs is going to charge you for using them every day of your life, and double today because there is a fire, then him and his pals are going to have a party at a much nicer building with your money. Nope... In this instance you are the fire warden trying to get people to jump out of the window. The other fire warden is trying to lead people to safety. You have no proof that he's going to charge money to use the stairs at that moment, never mind the idea that he will continue to charge you to use the stairs every day of your life. And your claims look frankly ridiculous when under scrutiny you'd realise that most people will just use the free lift when the building re-opens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Neither option exactly fits what I want but I believe that there is no chance of anything changing if we remain in the UK - in fact, I think that a No vote will just make it worse as Westminster will think they can get away with anything, at least for the next 20-odd years it would take until the next referendum. Until independence raised it head there were no "promises" of further powers, no promises of huge investment (if we vote No), nothing, nada, zilch ... No - except there was. The UK Government had heavily invested in relocating Public Sector jobs to Scotland. At Rosyth, Govan and Yoker the shipyards benefited from a huge UK Government order - one of the boats is being launched today. There has been significant UK taxpayer money paid in through green subsidies to set up all those Scottish wind farms, and we've seen UK taxpayer investment in North Sea Oil and most obviously in Scottish financial institutions. You do make a good point though. Those who are unsure of how they want the referendum vote to go should remember that if the country votes Yes we are on an irreversible road with no opportunity for a u-turn - crashing to the ground from the fifth floor if you like - whereas a No Vote is only going to be for the time being. We all know the nationalists will never let the Independence argument lie and maybe in 20 years time they'll have thought through their campaign a bit better, have all the relevant costings ready and be able to present a worthy case for separation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 What are you talking about, a Yes vote will obviously scrap devolution. As for Europe, were you not one of the ones saying that we wouldn't automatically get in and might not get in at all - at least not before a long wait. What more do you want? Vote Yes to get what you want. I should have stuck with my initial wording and said "scrap Hollyrood". I'm happy being in a political union. I'd just rather that those we share with share the same culture, history and most important - language. The Yes Campaign appears to also be happy to be a in political union. They don't care about history, culture, language - just so long as it's not with the English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Never have done and I can't imagine I ever will do. Even this year when I'm looking at a cheaper holiday than usual I'm still flying BA. I fly long distance and short haul every month even had a few first class long haul with Virgin and BA for the past 10 years. Jet2. Com has been one of the best flights for me with the longest leg room by far and great service. Will use them again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepaisleypanda Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 They also chose the wrong leader. He's fostered an image that makes it easy for the other side to put this together. He may think it makes him look heroic, but all it really does is show just how much he has managed to alienate the Yes Campaign and how he has undermined claims that we'd all be better off. Sad really. Mr Salmond is NOT the leader of the YES campaign - as you well know! That's akin to saying that Mr Cameron is the leader of the No campaign. More pish from Dickson! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepaisleypanda Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 FFS, you don't half talk shite. Nope... In this instance you are the fire warden trying to get people to jump out of the window. The other fire warden is trying to lead people to safety. You have no proof that he's going to charge money to use the stairs at that moment, never mind the idea that he will continue to charge you to use the stairs every day of your life. And your claims look frankly ridiculous when under scrutiny you'd realise that most people will just use the free lift when the building re-opens. Proof if it were ever needed!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepaisleypanda Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Agreed. Neither option fits what I'd like either, but scrapping devolution and leaving Europe doesn't appear to be on any political parties agenda. Really?? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-pledges-referendum-on-europe-even-if-attempts-to-reform-brussels-power-fails-9350870.html Yet more pish - you getting ready for the "big day oot" in Lanarkshire tomorrow - early? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbud Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Probably, but unlike Prestwick, Glasgow and Edinburgh are not solely reliant on just one operator - which is why the Scottish Government shouldn't have involved the Scottish taxpayer in any of this. It's not a bank bail out situation where if Prestwick Airport closes we're all f**ked. We can afford to lose one airport that has been running a long way short of capacity since the 1970's and which seems to suffer perennial news stories about it's financial troubles. . Maybe the scottish government realise that when scotland as an independent nation grant exploration and production licenses for the waters off the west coast then Prestwick will be an important international Hub as well as the obvious place to base helicopter operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 ....and now the Natsi's are attempting to set the Reichstag on fire. Well OK, the Better Together HQ in Cumbernauld but I suppose it would be a bit silly for someone wanting Independence to set fire to Hollyrood. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/terror-probe-launched-after-man-3806539 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Mr Salmond is NOT the leader of the YES campaign - as you well know! Do you know something - nope I didn't know this. I had to Google it. Who the f**k is Blair Jenkins? Has he been on TV? Did he write the White Paper? Is he being put up as the Yes Campaign's man to face Alastair Darling? Nope - it looks like he's the stooge that's put his name to this whole disastrous shambles to protect Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon when the Yes vote sinks in September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepaisleypanda Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Mr Salmond is NOT the leader of the YES campaign - as you well know! Do you know something - nope I didn't know this. I had to Google it. Even when given the benefit of the doubt, you STILL come back with MORE lies! "Dickson lying" would be trending on other sites!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 ....and now the Natsi's are attempting to set the Reichstag on fire. Well OK, the Better Together HQ in Cumbernauld but I suppose it would be a bit silly for someone wanting Independence to set fire to Hollyrood. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/terror-probe-launched-after-man-3806539 Quote - "A MAN claiming to be from the Scottish National Liberation Army has made a sinister firebomb threat to the Better Together campaign. The man entered their HQ in Cumbernauld and told staff they would be bombed out if they did not vacate the offices within 24 hours." Proof, please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Quote - "A MAN claiming to be from the Scottish National Liberation Army has made a sinister firebomb threat to the Better Together campaign. The man entered their HQ in Cumbernauld and told staff they would be bombed out if they did not vacate the offices within 24 hours." Proof, please! Ah...didn't Hitler use a similar defence after the Reichstag fire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 ....and now the Natsi's are attempting to set the Reichstag on fire. Well OK, the Better Together HQ in Cumbernauld but I suppose it would be a bit silly for someone wanting Independence to set fire to Hollyrood. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/terror-probe-launched-after-man-3806539 24 hours? I wouldn't give the feckers 24 seconds :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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