smcc Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 And I cannot imagine the massive paradigm shift that guarantees... 1. that Government of the Scots by the Scots will be any different. (The wee baldy guy did speak rationally but if a Tartan Nirvana didnae materialise, he would no doubt be arguing for an Independent Dundee.) 2. That a wee Nation of 5m could operate in a vacuum despite being locked by the arse to a big ruthless, now-unsympathetic neighbour that didn't subscribe to the same values. I would also agree with you that much more energy should be directed towards tax evaders and avoiders, rather than go after benefits cheats, but in Pretendypence you'll be keeping the Monarchy - you will still be subjects of the Queen, not citizens of a Free State. So, talking of Benefit cheats, you'd still be operating under the same strict, forelock-tugging hierarchical system that keeps us all in our place. Or attempts to. I was one of the lucky slum-dwellers who got a free education, a good apprenticeship and my ticket out - that is getting increasingly uncommon these days. God save the Queen in a Pretendypendent Scotland. I have to agree with Drew that many of your posts are extremely condescending, an example being the highlighted text above. Are you not aware that Australia, New Zealand and Canada (along with another dozen independent states) still have the British monarch as head of state. Are you really suggesting that these countries are any the worse for this? Are you really suggesting that you do not feel that you are a citizen of a free state living as you do in England? In any case, the fact that the SNP seem to wish to retain the Queen as head of state initially does not mean that this is carved in stone. The Scottish people will have the right, if the desire is there, to appoint another head of state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) I have to agree with Drew that many of your posts are extremely condescending, an example being the highlighted text above. Are you not aware that Australia, New Zealand and Canada (along with another dozen independent states) still have the British monarch as head of state. Are you really suggesting that these countries are any the worse for this? Are you really suggesting that you do not feel that you are a citizen of a free state living as you do in England? In any case, the fact that the SNP seem to wish to retain the Queen as head of state initially does not mean that this is carved in stone. The Scottish people will have the right, if the desire is there, to appoint another head of state. I certainly don't care if you or Drew feel I am condescending or not. I don't know where you get your feelings of inadequacy and resentment but I can see that blaming someone else for your failings is part of the YES make-up. If your argument is strong enough, stand up against mine. Repel it. Don't tell me on a Forum how I must speak. I won't kowtow and defer. I see you all as equals - not my betters. Try it sometime. Now, how on Earth is my resentment about the retention of the Monarchy in a modern, independent country being born(reborn) at the start of the 21st Century a form of condescension? When that lot (Australia, New Zealand and Canada etc) broke away from us (US, remember... Scotland was a huge beneficiary in Empire), it was 60 or so years ago. The end of an era, the end of Empire, beginning of Commonwealth. They expected to retain Trade ties and bending the knee was small price to pay. Those days are past now... and they would do it differently nowadays. And yes, I am a subject NOT a citizen. Check your passport. You are not a citizen. As a lifelong republican I DO resent that - and am appalled that Scotland, which should know better - doesn't. And the whole class system based on who you know, on inherited wealth and transfer of property flows down from that Monarchy and sense of entitlement. A shite state of affairs, indeed. THAT is why it is a shoddy Pretendypence. Find me another better word to describe it and I may agree to use that. Meantime - get used to it, live with it. And me. Edited March 27, 2014 by bluto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 I certainly don't care if you or Drew feel I am condescending or not. I don't know where you get your feelings of inadequacy and resentment but I can see that blaming someone else for your failings is part of the YES make-up. If your argument is strong enough, stand up against mine. Repel it. Don't tell me on a Forum how I must speak. I won't kowtow and defer. I see you all as equals - not my betters. Try it sometime. Now, how on Earth is my resentment about the retention of the Monarchy in a modern, independent country being born(reborn) at the start of the 21st Century a form of condescension? When that lot (Australia, New Zealand and Canada etc) broke away from us (US, remember... Scotland was a huge beneficiary in Empire), it was 60 or so years ago. The end of an era, the end of Empire, beginning of Commonwealth. They expected to retain Trade ties and bending the knee was small price to pay. Those days are past now... and they would do it differently nowadays. And yes, I am a subject NOT a citizen. Check your passport. You are not a citizen. As a lifelong republican I DO resent that - and am appalled that Scotland, which should know better - doesn't. And the whole class system based on who you know, on inherited wealth and transfer of property flows down from that Monarchy and sense of entitlement. A shite state of affairs, indeed. THAT is why it is a shoddy Pretendypence. Find me another better word to describe it and I may agree to use that. Meantime - get used to it, live with it. And me. Better word to describe it - "dependence". The yes campaign have us dependent on Westminster letting us use their money, dependent on Europe letting us join, and dependent on NATO for our defences. We'll be dependent on the UK Treasury underwriting our debts and dependent on power supplies from England when the wind doesn't blow the right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) I certainly don't care if you or Drew feel I am condescending or not. I don't know where you get your feelings of inadequacy and resentment but I can see that blaming someone else for your failings is part of the YES make-up. If your argument is strong enough, stand up against mine. Repel it. Don't tell me on a Forum how I must speak. I won't kowtow and defer. I see you all as equals - not my betters. Try it sometime. Now, how on Earth is my resentment about the retention of the Monarchy in a modern, independent country being born(reborn) at the start of the 21st Century a form of condescension? When that lot (Australia, New Zealand and Canada etc) broke away from us (US, remember... Scotland was a huge beneficiary in Empire), it was 60 or so years ago. The end of an era, the end of Empire, beginning of Commonwealth. They expected to retain Trade ties and bending the knee was small price to pay. Those days are past now... and they would do it differently nowadays. And yes, I am a subject NOT a citizen. Check your passport. You are not a citizen. As a lifelong republican I DO resent that - and am appalled that Scotland, which should know better - doesn't. And the whole class system based on who you know, on inherited wealth and transfer of property flows down from that Monarchy and sense of entitlement. A shite state of affairs, indeed. THAT is why it is a shoddy Pretendypence. Find me another better word to describe it and I may agree to use that. Meantime - get used to it, live with it. And me. Your opinion of condescension is obviously very different from mine! If you cannot see that someone else might find the tone of your posts condescending you must have a very closed mind. The condescension is in your implication that Scotland would be unique among independent countries in retaining the monarch as head of state. As you say, Australia, New Zealand and Canada have had a long time to rectify their "error" but, as far as I am aware none of them has chosen to do so. One thing you have got right is that my passport does not describe me as a citizen but as the bearer of the passport. I can find no reference to "subject". Like Drew, I now have you on ignore. Edited March 27, 2014 by smcc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Your opinion of condescension is obviously very different from mine! What kind of walloper has an 'opinion' on condescension!! (See? That's condescension.) If you cannot see that someone else might find the tone of your posts condescending you must have a very closed mind. I saw and accepted above that you and Drew seemed to find that about my posts - I just don't gaf! (See? That's condescension, too.) The condescension is in your implication that Scotland would be unique among independent countries in retaining the monarch as head of state. I haven't said that - can't you read? (See? That's condescension, also.) What I said was, that in the modern world a forward-thinking, wannabe independent country shouldn't dream of retaining a monarchical system - and I gave reasons for that which you obviously haven't comprehended. (Once again - that's condescension.) As you say, Australia, New Zealand and Canada have had a long time to rectify their "error" but, as far as I am aware none of them has chosen to do so. But they will, they will. My point is that if they were going independent now, they would have no Monarch. See that word, 'now'? You just didn't understand. (Yup - condescension.) One thing you have got right is that my passport does not describe me as a citizen but as the bearer of the passport. I can find no reference to "subject". Why am I not surprised? Like Drew, I now have you on ignore. Good. You've learnt from one of the best... at trying to suppress free speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Like Drew, I now have you on ignore. To be fair, he'll be used to that in real life. He's a throbber of the highest order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 I certainly don't care if you or Drew feel I am condescending or not. I don't know where you get your feelings of inadequacy and resentment but I can see that blaming someone else for your failings is part of the YES make-up. If your argument is strong enough, stand up against mine. Repel it. Don't tell me on a Forum how I must speak. I won't kowtow and defer. I see you all as equals - not my betters. Try it sometime. Now, how on Earth is my resentment about the retention of the Monarchy in a modern, independent country being born(reborn) at the start of the 21st Century a form of condescension? When that lot (Australia, New Zealand and Canada etc) broke away from us (US, remember... Scotland was a huge beneficiary in Empire), it was 60 or so years ago. The end of an era, the end of Empire, beginning of Commonwealth. They expected to retain Trade ties and bending the knee was small price to pay. Those days are past now... and they would do it differently nowadays. And yes, I am a subject NOT a citizen. Check your passport. You are not a citizen. As a lifelong republican I DO resent that - and am appalled that Scotland, which should know better - doesn't. And the whole class system based on who you know, on inherited wealth and transfer of property flows down from that Monarchy and sense of entitlement. A shite state of affairs, indeed. THAT is why it is a shoddy Pretendypence. Find me another better word to describe it and I may agree to use that. Meantime - get used to it, live with it. And me. Ok , just checked my passport (I had to take it into a solicitors yesterday) it says that I'm a British Citizen. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Ok , just checked my passport (I had to take it into a solicitors yesterday) it says that I'm a British Citizen. . Stick me on IGNORE. I'm a throbber of the highest order. I think FTOF was being condescending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Stick me on IGNORE. I'm a throbber of the highest order. I think FTOF was being condescending. Every time I put you on ignore you just change your name to something else and f**k it , FTOF , thinks I'm a throbber anyway , ya Anglisied throbber ye. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Aye, yon democracy thingy is a right bastard. It's OK when it works out the way you want things but what a bugger when you get beat. You could try for another referendum to abolish democracy. Are there whips in the Scottish Parliament?Great input Rick, glad you stuck around this thread and didn't decide not to post anymore...anymore...anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Meanwhile in an Independent Scotland Tony Soprano would let the Scottish Welfare budget run uncontrollably despite already having a budget deficit of 18%. Those damned disabled, ruining this great Britain of yours and causing a world wide banking crisis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Those damned disabled, ruining this great Britain of yours and causing a world wide banking crisis! Are you making the fatal mistake of treating being work shy as a medical condition? Where we should be as a society is we should be pushing the shirkers off the welfare budget, so that we can afford to give more to those who really deserve and need it. I've seen absolutely nothing that suggests an Independent Scotland would be any better at getting the unemployed back to work so that there are more funds available to give to pensioners and the disabled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Great input Rick, glad you stuck around this thread and didn't decide not to post anymore...anymore...anymore I reserved the right to respond to shite and your input is regular manna from heaven where that's concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 ...and here's another Nat who thinks a fairer society is one where fuel poverty is rife..... What we need is to get fracking as soon as possible on a huge scale down in Lancashire. Never mind the green lobby - lets get cheaper energy for all. mention half-witted idealogues and one happens along in jig-time I work for an energy company and so does my daughter- i know fuel poverty is real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Are you making the fatal mistake of treating being work shy as a medical condition? Where we should be as a society is we should be pushing the shirkers off the welfare budget, so that we can afford to give more to those who really deserve and need it. I've seen absolutely nothing that suggests an Independent Scotland would be any better at getting the unemployed back to work so that there are more funds available to give to pensioners and the disabled. No, wee dicky diddums you are making the mistake of lumping everyone together who receives welfare or benefits and calling them work shy and shirkers. Private companies with targets to meet and profits to achieve in charge of deciding who is fit to work - result cancer sufferers deemed fit for work and others commiting suicide. Caps on benefits that can be paid resulting in disabled being left homeless - nothing to do with shirkers. Of course this allows the system to keep churning out more money for the elite minority whilst giving the "hard working families" a target for their anger - the poor. Mibees its not a mistake your making, your well aware of all of this. Divide and conquer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 I reserved the right to respond to shite and your input is regular manna from heaven where that's concerned. That's nice - wouldn't want you having a hissy fit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 mention half-witted idealogues and one happens along in jig-time I work for an energy company and so does my daughter- i know fuel poverty is real He doesnt believe that food banks are real either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Oh FFS 1. Did you not notice that the RBS and Bank Of Scotland needed bailed out? So that's that one blown out the water. 2. Proof? 3. Even John Swinney doesn't deny that Scotland owes its share of the UK National Debt. Can you not find links to these "official figures" - like I have done - to back up your arguments Tony? Quoting articles off Nationalist websites is like having a German quote sections of Mein Kampf. The official figures are the GERS figures, this years were released this week. They are pretty easy to find. How many times do we need to go over this myth about the banks? They were bailed out by numerous governments, uk actually paid little in comparison to US treasury. ETA - a German quote sections of Mein Kampf. You'll need to explain what this post is meant to mean? Any explanation forthcoming Dicko? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 A good wee video. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2014/mar/26/george-galloway-scotland-say-naw-video Interesting right enough, I hadn't seen a Roland Villiers sketch in some years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 That's nice - wouldn't want you having a hissy fit... For hissy fits, see Drew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Interesting right enough, I hadn't seen a Roland Villiers sketch in some years...Probably for decades...Ronald, however....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 mention half-witted idealogues and one happens along in jig-time I work for an energy company and so does my daughter- i know fuel poverty is real I know it's real. What I was referring to is the stupidity of those who think voting to make Scotland independent would end this when Scotland s own First Minister needs oil prices to rise and maintain a minimum of $113 per barrel. Salmond has no intention of ending fuel poverty instead he NEEDS to make it worse to make his budgets work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 No, wee dicky diddums you are making the mistake of lumping everyone together who receives welfare or benefits and calling them work shy and shirkers. Private companies with targets to meet and profits to achieve in charge of deciding who is fit to work - result cancer sufferers deemed fit for work and others commiting suicide. Caps on benefits that can be paid resulting in disabled being left homeless - nothing to do with shirkers. Of course this allows the system to keep churning out more money for the elite minority whilst giving the "hard working families" a target for their anger - the poor. Mibees its not a mistake your making, your well aware of all of this. Divide and conquer... Nope. Im sure those without an agenda will see that you're doing your Natsi thing again of lying uncontrollably. I've made it clear that it's important we tackle wrong doing wherever we find it. Getting those who are fit to work back to work frees up more money which can then be used to make life more comfortable for those who deserve taxpayers support. This is right, moral fit and proper. A fairer society shouldn't reward those who make a lifestyle choice of ripping the puss out of the taxpayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 I know it's real. What I was referring to is the stupidity of those who think voting to make Scotland independent would end this when Scotland s own First Minister needs oil prices to rise and maintain a minimum of $113 per barrel. Salmond has no intention of ending fuel poverty instead he NEEDS to make it worse to make his budgets work. BACKTRACK ALERT That is not what you said. You are entitled to your opinion. As soon as you work out what it is, try and string a cohesive sentence together and express it. Until such times, maybe a wee lie down in a dark corner will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 He doesnt believe that food banks are real either. Pity, he'll be pretty reliant on them once his ex has had her way with the Dickson "millions" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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