General Election 2015

[BuddyHolly9]

In 1865 the Liberals got 85.4% of the vote in Scotland. I suppose that is somehow relevant, too. I await the LibDem supporter coming on here to say, "When we were only half the party we are now, we got a bigger percentage of the vote than any party ever has in Scotland. Just think what we can do now that we're two parties together."

Numbers can be used to say just about anything - especially if, like The Wizard, you just make them up as you go along.

Correct, these things do come and go in waves. Just imagine a Lab government propped up by the SNP. Their progressive (tax) policies will remove the potential for labour to get many seats in the UK for a long time

[saintnextlifetime]

I think if we did get 40+ SNP MP's - as is looking likely - it will actually be bad for the independence movement.

The whole ' not represented fairly ' argument doesn't really wash if you're in Westminster dictating policy.

Part of the reason I'm voting SNP

I actually agreed with George Robertson (now a Lord of the realm , ba f**k) , when he said that a Scottish parliament would kill the SNP . .

How wrong we were . .

[Stuart Dickson]

So a dead ,hated, unionist politician was popular at one point in her career, when the SNP was in it's fledgling days.

No shit Sherlock.

Were in 2015 now, in case you and fatty hadn't noticed, and the Toalies (and their red allies) in Scotland are about to be handed their arses on a plate , by dint of all the lovely SNP votes that will be cast next week.

Finally, yet another alias?

The SNP were at their most popular in October 1974. They've never managed to achieve the same kind of voting returns since then in a UK General Election. So far from being fledgling Thatcher pumped the SNP when they were actually at their best and like the unions she crushed them

Edited April 29, 2015 by Stuart Dickson

[Stuart Dickson]

Really, you want to talk about oil prices after you got found out lying about them.

Yes the oil price isn't what the SNP or the UK government predicted this now. But neither lied unlike yourself about them.

Well that's unless you've found the newspaper you claimed you read the ridiculous low price of oil per barrel before the referendum vote.

Na didn't think so........

Erm, whatever I was saying on a football forum had very little relevance to the UK and Scotlands economy. What Alex Salmond was boldly predicting, against the advice of all of his economic experts, was that oil prices weren't just going to stay high, they were going to go higher and higher and higher forever. It's only taken 7 months of low, low oil prices to prove that Salmond's and the SNP's figures were fantasist in the extreme and had little basis in reality.

[Stuart Dickson]

I actually agreed with George Robertson (now a Lord of the realm , ba f**k) , when he said that a Scottish parliament would kill the SNP . .

How wrong we were . .

It was never going to kill the SNP. Instead it was always going to have a divisive effect that would give the SNP a relevance that didn't exist before. It meant that a party in opposition in the UK could set up a government in Scotland with little accountability because - as we have seen since the SNP took power in 2007 - every single f**k up they make is blamed on London, whilst economic successes that have clearly come from London and claimed by the SNP as their own.

A perfect example of that wouid be employment currently. In 2010 the SNP led by Salmond claimed that UK Government cuts to the public sector would be catastrophic for Scottish jobs and Salmond scoffed at Conservative claims that when you cut the public sector the private sector fills in the void left behind. The UK Government followed it's programme successful reducing wastage in the public sector, and subsequently they've been proved right all over the UK as record numbers of people in the UK are now in employment. The coalition should be getting the credit for their successes but during the referendum campaign Nicola Surgeon's campaign literature claimed that this was somehow a Scottish Government success.

Just two years ago Alex Salmond met with executives at Amazon and negotiated a low tax deal for Amazon if they would agree to create an HQ in an Independent Scotland. Oh how they boasted about it - yet today Nicola Sturgeon claims that it's the coalition government who have proved supportive of exactly the kind of zero hour contracts that Alex Salmond was so desperate to bring to Scotland.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Stuart Dickson

[Guest TPAFKATS]

The SNP were at their most popular in October 1974. They've never managed to achieve the same kind of voting returns since then in a UK General Election. So far from being fledgling Thatcher pumped the SNP when they were actually at their best and like the unions she crushed them

Comedy Gold

[Stuart Dickson]

Comedy Gold

The SNP votes in the elections at that time went as follows

October 1974 (pre Thatcher) - 839,617 - 11 seats

1979 - 504.259 (Thatchers first election as leader of the Conservative Party) - 2 seats

1983 - 331,975 - 2 seats

1987 - 416,473 - 3 seats

Even in 1992 with John Major in charge the Conservatives had 11 seats to the SNPs 3.

All through Thatchers time in office the SNP saw their support amongst Scottish voters halved at least and in all Thatchers time in office she had approximately TWICE as many Scots vote for her as voted for the SNP. I would say that was Scottish Nationalisms crushed.

The only thing that is comedy gold is that some brain dead Nationalists keep claiming that Thatcher was despised in Scotland, and that her UK Government was one that nobody in Scotland wanted when the reality is that Salmond, Sturgeon, Swinney, and Wilson would all have killed to have the kind of support Thatcher had in Scotland at that time - and indeed they still would.

[2becks]

How long has it been since anyone posted anything relevant on this thread?

[Bud the Baker]

According to Radio Shortbread, the Sun (UK edition) is going today with the headline of "Vote Conservative to stop the SNP ruling the country" while the Scottish Sun is going with "Vote SNP to get more influence in Westminster". They really know how to play to their audiences.

Yeah, how long before the English version includes us Jocks as undesirable aliens that must be forcibly removed from bee-utiful Engurland and reconstruction of Hadrian's Wall begun?

PS - Respect to nosferatu for the most skewed interpretation of statistics I've seen in a very long time!

[shull]

Ooh ooh , I'm a true blue...

[stlucifer]

According to Radio Shortbread, the Sun (UK edition) is going today with the headline of "Vote Conservative to stop the SNP ruling the country" while the Scottish Sun is going with "Vote SNP to get more influence in Westminster". They really know how to play to their audiences.

In my opinion they are singing from the same hymn sheet.

Keep Labour out is the underlying headline in both.

[stlucifer]

You could very well be right there.

I try my best.

And... I'll certainly do my bit Mr. Sun.

[nosferatu]

So a dead ,hated, unionist politician was popular at one point in her career, when the SNP was in it's fledgling days.

No shit Sherlock.

Were in 2015 now, in case you and fatty hadn't noticed, and the Toalies (and their red allies) in Scotland are about to be handed their arses on a plate , by dint of all the lovely SNP votes that will be cast next week.

Finally, yet another alias?

Hang on a minute, my point was that Thatcher wasn't as unpopular in Scotland as she is made out to be.

You are now claiming that Thatcher was actually popular in Scotland?

I have no doubt that the SNP will be the most popular party in Scotland at the general election.

Goes back to my point about Rangers & Celtic being the most popular football teams in Scotland...

Gimp

[DougJamie]

Can I ask am I on B&W or is it the Stuart Forum,

Stuart I am sure your a decent bloke, you have taste in footie teams after all but you don't half talk a load of blocks, politics always stirs but lets stick to facts and our wee nation here.

The history that is driving this SNP wave is 7 months old, Labour deserted Scotland years ago and completed the set bringing GB from his prison cell to breech on better together blah blah. We are not stupid but my god the Tories, Libs and Lab have all treated us same way as Lords used to get more land in the olden days, the diff was the lords got the land, we get lies lies and lies. So to make Alex a liar is comical, sure he is a Politian however he is constant here.

All this is whatever really, when Douglas Alexander gets replaced by a wee 20 year old as MP in the Lab stronghold that is Paisley . I believe in democracy, but total freedom of stupid speech, as shown, can be dangerous

[Bud the Baker]

Hang on a minute, my point was that Thatcher wasn't as unpopular in Scotland as she is made out to be.

You are now claiming that Thatcher was actually popular in Scotland?

I have no doubt that the SNP will be the most popular party in Scotland at the general election.

Goes back to my point about Rangers & Celtic being the most popular football teams in Scotland...

Gimp

I'd say that Thatcher and her brand of politics was never popular in Scotland. The Tories share of the popular vote in Scotland in the '79 General Election was less than the UK in general and the swing to them less as well despite starting from a lower base and having a soft SNP vote to squeeze. As for the Euro elections that June it displays nothing more than the Tories greater ability to get their voters off their lazy arses and down to the polling stations in a low turnout. Between 1979 and 1987 the Conservatives lost over 200,000 votes in Scotland while gaining 60,000 in the UK as a whole with her Little Englander mentality starting the decline of the Tories in Scotland. The % share* of the Conservative vote between the '87 (Thatcher) & '92 (Major) General Elections decreased in Scotland while increasing in the UK as a whole, conclusive proof that Thatcher was always a liability in Scotland.

It was an interesting set of stats for the anally inclined, although your interpretation of them was idiosyncratic, but I'm prepared to bet that they'll be out of date by next Friday morning Cap'n S!

* The reason for changing from number of votes to % share of the votes in this instance is the overall turnout in '92 which was a bit higher than in '79 & '87.

1979 - Turnout 76%

1987 - Turnout 75.3%

1992 - Turnout 77.7%

Edited April 30, 2015 by Bud the Baker

[stlucifer]

In 1979 the Tories ran with a poster showing dole queues and heralding that "Labour isn't working".

A masterstroke in advertising by Satchi & Satchi.

Labour's undoing was NOT calling elections the previous year.

It had NOTHING to do with Thatcher.

It had ALL to do with the first ever really negative campaigning by any party.

Sweep, (of Sooty and sweep for the unitiated), could have been in charge of the Tories and they would still have won the election. Probably with an even greater landslide as his voice was less annoying than Thatchers was at that juncture.

[salmonbuddie]

Lies, damned lies and StuD's polling figures.

[BuddyHolly9]

Can I ask am I on B&W or is it the Stuart Forum,

Stuart I am sure your a decent bloke, you have taste in footie teams after all but you don't half talk a load of blocks, politics always stirs but lets stick to facts and our wee nation here.

The history that is driving this SNP wave is 7 months old, Labour deserted Scotland years ago and completed the set bringing GB from his prison cell to breech on better together blah blah. We are not stupid but my god the Tories, Libs and Lab have all treated us same way as Lords used to get more land in the olden days, the diff was the lords got the land, we get lies lies and lies. So to make Alex a liar is comical, sure he is a Politian however he is constant here.

All this is whatever really, when Douglas Alexander gets replaced by a wee 20 year old as MP in the Lab stronghold that is Paisley . I believe in democracy, but total freedom of stupid speech, as shown, can be dangerous

What treatment have we had that the other parts of the UK haven't?

[Stuart Dickson]

Can I ask am I on B&W or is it the Stuart Forum,

Stuart I am sure your a decent bloke, you have taste in footie teams after all but you don't half talk a load of blocks, politics always stirs but lets stick to facts and our wee nation here.

The history that is driving this SNP wave is 7 months old, Labour deserted Scotland years ago and completed the set bringing GB from his prison cell to breech on better together blah blah. We are not stupid but my god the Tories, Libs and Lab have all treated us same way as Lords used to get more land in the olden days, the diff was the lords got the land, we get lies lies and lies. So to make Alex a liar is comical, sure he is a Politian however he is constant here.

All this is whatever really, when Douglas Alexander gets replaced by a wee 20 year old as MP in the Lab stronghold that is Paisley . I believe in democracy, but total freedom of stupid speech, as shown, can be dangerous

First off - thanks. I'm sure you are a decent bloke too.

Secondly - what the f**k? First off 55% of Scots wanted Scotland to remain in the UK, 45% wanted to leave the UK. The majority won - that is democracy in action. We've got that already. If the thuggish wee lassie gets more votes than all the other candidates including the Labour statesman who has represented Paisley rather well over the years then she will become an MP. That too is democracy, just as it will be if Douglas Alexander manages to hold on to his seat by getting more votes than all the other candidates.

Thirdly - we can also see Freedom of Speech in action here too. Mhairi Black was able to say that she wanted to stick the nut in her political opponents without any backlash from the police or from the political establishment. Instead I and I suppose many others from outside of Paisley look on a bit incredulous that the residents of Paisley might actually be stupid enough to put a daft wee lassie into the House of Commons to represent them and to fight for their needs.

[Stuart Dickson]

In 1979 the Tories ran with a poster showing dole queues and heralding that "Labour isn't working".

A masterstroke in advertising by Satchi & Satchi.

Labour's undoing was NOT calling elections the previous year.

It had NOTHING to do with Thatcher.

It had ALL to do with the first ever really negative campaigning by any party.

Sweep, (of Sooty and sweep for the unitiated), could have been in charge of the Tories and they would still have won the election. Probably with an even greater landslide as his voice was less annoying than Thatchers was at that juncture.

Ah ok. So if the SNP does do well next Thursday we can claim it was f**k all to do with Sturgeon, Salmond et al and it was all to do with Wings Over Scotland and their Der Sturmer type propaganda. That's good to know.....

[Stuart Dickson]

When it all comes down to it, past GE results in Scotland have absolutely nothing to do with this one. There is no precedent for what the opinion polls are showing, there is no pattern being followed from past results and, as has been mentioned, the driving force behind this is only 7 months old. Labour expected to be able to do what they have done in Scotland for a long time, lie to get the votes and then just do what they want. The difference here is that people said they would remember the promises and that they better be delivered - they weren't delivered and people have remembered that. If, as the polls predict, the SNP do win a landslide in Scotland then they are basically in a no lose situation. Either Labour do some sort of deal with the SNP which delivers on the main promises of the SNP manifesto or the SNP get frozen out. The SNP will either be seen to be delivering what they promised or the Westminster old boys network will be seen to be being undemocratic by the people of Scotland. I think that there is more chance of a Tory-Labour agreement than any agreement between the SNP and Labour. But, as I said, there is no precedent for this, so I could be totally wrong. Just a gut feeling of what will happen if the polls turn out to be accurate.

The way I read it Sturgeon looks like a desperate bint trying to get Ed Milliband to get off with her, and for all Milliband appears to be the ugliest virgin in the class he's still not quite that desperate.

The SNP have done everything possible to saddle up to Labour from moving wildly to the left to copying huge chunks of the Labour manifesto. They've even given Labour the opportunity to blame them for making more severe austerity cuts than Labour had been proposing by showing on their figures that the SNP would cut more and faster. If Sturgeon can't persuade Labour to marry up with the SNP their democratically elected MP's will be the most feeble, impotent and powerless bunch ever elected from Scotland to the big house.

[Stuart Dickson]

I know you are just trying to get a reaction here but you have actually just agreed with me. If Scotland sends a large SNP contingent to Westminster who then get frozen out, people in Scotland will look on it as being treated as second class citizens, which will then strengthen the case for independence. On the other hand, if Labour do come to an agreement with them then the SNP will then be seen as a party who delivers and who can be trusted to run an independent Scotland. As I said, a no lose situation. I'm glad you agree.

There's a big lose.If the SNP send 40+ MP's to Westminster who don't have the power to deliver anything they'll look utterly pathetic and completely impotent just like they did in October 1974. At least the Lib Dems have managed to get some of their polciies through the house on the back of the current coalition.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

The SNP votes in the elections at that time went as follows

October 1974 (pre Thatcher) - 839,617 - 11 seats

1979 - 504.259 (Thatchers first election as leader of the Conservative Party) - 2 seats

1983 - 331,975 - 2 seats

1987 - 416,473 - 3 seats

Even in 1992 with John Major in charge the Conservatives had 11 seats to the SNPs 3.

All through Thatchers time in office the SNP saw their support amongst Scottish voters halved at least and in all Thatchers time in office she had approximately TWICE as many Scots vote for her as voted for the SNP. I would say that was Scottish Nationalisms crushed.

The only thing that is comedy gold is that some brain dead Nationalists keep claiming that Thatcher was despised in Scotland, and that her UK Government was one that nobody in Scotland wanted when the reality is that Salmond, Sturgeon, Swinney, and Wilson would all have killed to have the kind of support Thatcher had in Scotland at that time - and indeed they still would.

The SNP have a majority in a parliament set up under a form of PR designed to prevent them doing so.

The SNP are polling figures that makes it likely that they could at least treble their best ever return in seats at Westminster and could actually win over 50 seats according to projections.

Nicola Sturgeon is enjoying approval ratings that other UK leaders struggle to reach when you combine their scores.

You continue to claim the SNP were crushed.

You still don't see the comedy in your posts.

[Stuart Dickson]

The SNP have a majority in a parliament set up under a form of PR designed to prevent them doing so.

The SNP are polling figures that makes it likely that they could at least treble their best ever return in seats at Westminster and could actually win over 50 seats according to projections.

Nicola Sturgeon is enjoying approval ratings that other UK leaders struggle to reach when you combine their scores.

You continue to claim the SNP were crushed.

You still don't see the comedy in your posts.

Thatcher crushed the SNP - how can you argue with that? The fact that some 25 years after Thatcher left office the SNP are now doing a bit better doesn't change the events of 1979 - 1990 when Thatcher won up to THREE TIMES more votes than the SNP in elections in a country where she was supposed to be unbelievably unpopular and supposedly - according to Natsi propaganda - the Prime Minister that no-one in Scotland voted for.

The only comedy value in all of this is that STILL some deluded dafties want to argue that Thatcher was unpopular in Scotland, whilst boasting that the SNP - who have NEVER received more votes than Thatcher in any one election in Scotland - are on some sort of unstoppable rise. I can only assume that the drugs out your way do indeed work and your brain is absolute mush!

[Bud the Baker]

The SNP votes in the elections at that time went as follows

October 1974 (pre Thatcher) - 839,617 - 11 seats

1979 - 504.259 (Thatchers first election as leader of the Conservative Party) - 2 seats

1983 - 331,975 - 2 seats

1987 - 416,473 - 3 seats

Even in 1992 with John Major in charge the Conservatives had 11 seats to the SNPs 3.

All through Thatchers time in office the SNP saw their support amongst Scottish voters halved at least and in all Thatchers time in office she had approximately TWICE as many Scots vote for her as voted for the SNP. I would say that was Scottish Nationalisms crushed.

The only thing that is comedy gold is that some brain dead Nationalists keep claiming that Thatcher was despised in Scotland, and that her UK Government was one that nobody in Scotland wanted when the reality is that Salmond, Sturgeon, Swinney, and Wilson would all have killed to have the kind of support Thatcher had in Scotland at that time - and indeed they still would.

The SNP surge in the general elections of 1974 were a blip induced by the previous year's oil crisis & the three day week at the start of 1974 - the election in 1979 saw swings back to both the Conservative & Labour parties in Scotland from the SNP. Once it became apparent that Thatcher's Conservatives had abandoned the One Nation Conservatism the party had espoused since the end of WW2 their support in Scotland began to drop (mainly to the Lib-Dems in the '80's) until it bottomed out at its current level of 15-20%.

Trying to confuse the residual support the Conservatives had in Scotland in 1979, which decreased during the Thatcher era, for a general espousal of Thatcherism by the Scottish electorate is a self deluding approach from blinkered diehards like yourself that fools nobody from outwith the faithful.

Moving forward to 2015 and I think the SNP will exceed the Conservatives total & percentage voting results from 1979 and finally benefit from the first past the post system winning the bulk of the seats in Scotland and then we'll see what happens post election.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Bud the Baker