Scottish Independence Model Is Dead

[oaksoft]

Is that all...you've got?

He's probably too busy frantically trying to remember basic geography on another thread where his arse is being nailed to the ground evern harder than it is on this one.

[oaksoft]

Have we all tried typing "subsequently" into Google, then? Made me smile...

Thats actually quite good.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I don't have a crystal ball, so won't attempt to call the future. I would be surprised, however, if there isn't another referendum within the next 5 - 10 years.

It is a matter that is not close to being dead.

No chance. Even the SNP leadership don't want that.

Can you imagine the carnage as those supporting the Union simply pull out their copies of the White Paper from the last referendum and dismantle every claim the SNP made, this time with the benefit of all the hindsight afforded to us all.

Scotland doesn't need another referendum. Scotland need only send a majority of SNP mps to Westminster as a mandate for Independence.

[BuddieinEK]

Scotland doesn't need another referendum. Scotland need only send a majority of SNP mps to Westminster as a mandate for Independence.

Even against the expressed wishes of the majority of Scottish voters?

How democratic do you feel that is?

[windae cleaner]

Even against the expressed wishes of the majority of Scottish voters?

How democratic do you feel that is?

Like every time a Tory Government gets in

It's a bitch

[oaksoft]

He's using Dickson's own words against him. If you want to disagree with anyone about that claim then it should be numbnuts.

Yep. Well remembered.

Dicko has repeatedly stated that if Scotland had wanted Independence they would have voted for it at WESTMINSTER elections and not just Holyrood.

Well we've now done that so by his logic we simply don't need another referendum.

He's gone strangely quiet on this but I haven't.

It was a bulllshit thing to say at the time and it's a bullshit thing to claim now.

Tony is playing with Dicko and BuddieinEK seems to have walked right into it.

[salmonbuddie]

It was the Blessed Margaret who made that statement iirc, surprised StuD hasn't fully endorsed it yet given his hero (heroin?) worship of the Snatcher.

[Reynard]

I don't have a crystal ball, so won't attempt to call the future. I would be surprised, however, if there isn't another referendum within the next 5 - 10 years.

It is a matter that is not close to being dead.

Its absolutely over.

The tories will never give another one no matter what happens. And all you'll get is a Quebec style series of hoops to jump through just like the Quebecois now have. And their nationalism has died a death just like Scotlands will.

You don't need a crystal ball to know that this was it as far as Scottish independence is concerned. The SNP dont want it anymore. The UK will never serve up another referendum either.

Just enjoy playing about in Holyrood for a while, its fun until the tax bills start arriving. Assuming Swinneys bottle doesnt crash and he rejects further devolution.

Either way, the Tories are perfectly happy to have the SNP mucking around in Scotland and making sure that the left is so fractured that it can never govern in the UK again. Well played.

[Bud the Baker]

Its absolutely over.

The tories will never give another one no matter what happens. And all you'll get is a Quebec style series of hoops to jump through just like the Quebecois now have. And their nationalism has died a death just like Scotlands will.

You don't need a crystal ball to know that this was it as far as Scottish independence is concerned. The SNP dont want it anymore. The UK will never serve up another referendum either.

Just enjoy playing about in Holyrood for a while, its fun until the tax bills start arriving. Assuming Swinneys bottle doesnt crash and he rejects further devolution.

Either way, the Tories are perfectly happy to have the SNP mucking around in Scotland and making sure that the left is so fractured that it can never govern in the UK again. Well played.

Oh well the oracle has spoken.

Swinney's right to be wary of taking on the burdens of the SNP's welfare policies while tied into the Tories austerity regime and white elephants like Trident to fund at UK level.

We'll see what happens in next years Holyrood elections - if the SNP can maintain the support it got at the last GE then I think the logical next step is to argue for a second referendum based on the difference in voting preferences between Scotland and England (or at least London and it's commuter fiefdoms) and the fact that devolution clearly doesn't work. If Tory support in Scotland can't rise above the current 15% then independence is inevitable.

Who knows - you may be right and people will vote no again but it ain't over just because you say so. I certainly hope that enough people will see beyond the I'm alright Jack attitude that you and your compradres espouse on this site.

[Reynard]

Oh well the oracle has spoken.

Swinney's right to be wary of taking on the burdens of the SNP's welfare policies while tied into the Tories austerity regime and white elephants like Trident to fund at UK level.

We'll see what happens in next years Holyrood elections - if the SNP can maintain the support it got at the last GE then I think the logical next step is to argue for a second referendum based on the difference in voting preferences between Scotland and England (or at least London and it's commuter fiefdoms) and the fact that devolution clearly doesn't work. If Tory support in Scotland can't rise above the current 15% then independence is inevitable.

Who knows - you may be right and people will vote no again but it ain't over just because you say so. I certainly hope that enough people will see beyond the I'm alright Jack attitude that you and your compradres espouse on this site.

You very politically naive if you don't understand any of this.

You talk of the "I'm alright Jack" attitude yet the yes campaign was entirely based around the lie that we were all going to be better off. The reason for this is that they had done their research and they knew that there was a considerable portion of the electorate who would be swung to yes if they would be a few hundred pounds better off. So it wasn't actually confined to "my compadres on this site". I accept that there is a small portion of the Scottish electorate that would happily live in a cave as long as they could have a saltire on a stuck flying outside it, just as there are folk on the other side that wouldn't consider splitting up the UK even if they happened to be financially better off. Neither of those types were considered in any of the strategy.

But its not an issue anyway as there isn't going to be another vote on this in either of our lifetimes.

If you seriously think the UK government are not happy with the status quo then you're even more politically naive than I thought.

[Bud the Baker]

You very politically naive if you don't understand any of this.

You talk of the "I'm alright Jack" attitude yet the yes campaign was entirely based around the lie that we were all going to be better off. The reason for this is that they had done their research and they knew that there was a considerable portion of the electorate who would be swung to yes if they would be a few hundred pounds better off. So it wasn't actually confined to "my compadres on this site". I accept that there is a small portion of the Scottish electorate that would happily live in a cave as long as they could have a saltire on a stuck flying outside it, just as there are folk on the other side that wouldn't consider splitting up the UK even if they happened to be financially better off. Neither of those types were considered in any of the strategy.

But its not an issue anyway as there isn't going to be another vote on this in either of our lifetimes.

If you seriously think the UK government are not happy with the status quo then you're even more politically naive than I thought.

I don't recall the Yes campaign in the referendum being fought on the grounds of us being better off individually but that we could be better off as a country if the wealth was invested more equitably instead of the austerity that the last coalition government pursued and which the Tories have intensified - you're the one who's confused your own motives with those of the population as a whole.

I'm not ashamed to admit I'm believe in Socialism and planned economies which was the main economic paradigm in the Western Europe from the end of WW2 until the Oil Crisis and stagflation in the '70's, that's what governs my political choices and it's why I currently support the SNP.

I'm not naïve - I'm sure the current UK Government which got 36.9% of the votes cast at the last GE can't believe it luck (probably laughing their arses off) that it's got the freedom to dismantle the Welfare State based on the dismal performances of Nicola Sturgeon, Alec Salmond and Ed Milliband in April/May who got caught up in how they would divvy up a post election minority government rather than put the focus on what the Tories would have to do to achieve the savings they planned.

Yet again I'll insist that if the Tories can't improve on the 15% they achieved in Scotland at the last GE then another referendum is a certainty - they'll end up being as glad to see the back of us as we'll be to leave

[Reynard]

Swinney signed up for Smith.. It would be most helpful if he could articulate precisely what it is he is worried about. That might help immensely. When he came out after signing he immediately began whining about how he felt let down about not getting FFA. His MPs voted against having the impact of FFA scrutinised by parliament. I wonder why they did THAT?

As for the Tories not improving on 15% at a GE, its irrelevant as the Tories are the government because they won most seats in what was a UK wide election. Regional variations don't matter. Its time you acknowledged that Scotland didn't want to separate. Until you come to terms with that hard fact then you're doomed to spend the rest of your life in a rage.

The SNP will never be able to form a government. All the have managed to do so far is ensure that foxhunting in England cant be done exactly the same way that its done in Scotland currently. Wow.

[Bud the Baker]

Swinney signed up for Smith.. It would be most helpful if he could articulate precisely what it is he is worried about. That might help immensely. When he came out after signing he immediately began whining about how he felt let down about not getting FFA. His MPs voted against having the impact of FFA scrutinised by parliament. I wonder why they did THAT?

As for the Tories not improving on 15% at a GE, its irrelevant as the Tories are the government because they won most seats in what was a UK wide election. Regional variations don't matter. Its time you acknowledged that Scotland didn't want to separate. Until you come to terms with that hard fact then you're doomed to spend the rest of your life in a rage.

The SNP will never be able to form a government. All the have managed to do so far is ensure that foxhunting in England cant be done exactly the same way that its done in Scotland currently. Wow.

I reckon you're the one closer to rage than me.

I know what I believe in and I'll continue to campaign and vote for it - if social equality is worth having then it's worth fighting for and it's worth paying for. You don't just give up because you lose the first attempt, you continue to argue your case - who knows even you might finally see the error of your ways.

You're not the first person to claim history is over, they were wrong and you will be too.

[PCCABE]

So democracy is fine when it delivers the correct result.

The fact Scotland is governed by a party who not only detests Scotland but actively seeks to undermine us at every turn does not seem to bother far right idiots.

No matter how many times bellends like Reynard tells us Scotland is a country not a region.

Reynard detests Scotland and everybody in ot who is against his disgusting far right agenda.

Edited December 9, 2015 by PCCABE

[oaksoft]

Its absolutely over.

The tories will never give another one no matter what happens. And all you'll get is a Quebec style series of hoops to jump through just like the Quebecois now have. And their nationalism has died a death just like Scotlands will.

You don't need a crystal ball to know that this was it as far as Scottish independence is concerned. The SNP dont want it anymore. The UK will never serve up another referendum either.

Just enjoy playing about in Holyrood for a while, its fun until the tax bills start arriving. Assuming Swinneys bottle doesnt crash and he rejects further devolution.

Either way, the Tories are perfectly happy to have the SNP mucking around in Scotland and making sure that the left is so fractured that it can never govern in the UK again. Well played.

All this hard-core arrogance from you is over-compensating for something.

Are you brave enough to admit what it is you are covering up?

Is it frustration at not being elected recently?

[PCCABE]

All this hard-core arrogance from you is over-compensating for something.

Are you brave enough to admit what it is you are covering up?

Is it frustration at not being elected recently?

Which far right party did that bloody clown stand for.

Who would vote for that piece of shit?

[oaksoft]

Which far right party did that bloody clown stand for.

Who would vote for that piece of shit?

i think he stood for the tories but ended up expelled from the party because of his affiliation to some hard core looney right wing group of nutters.

apparently he has buckled and quit the group of nutters. not because he disagrees with their stance you understand but to try and grease his way into power. he is now apparently a tory party member again. he also takes pride in the fact that he got trounced and claims he doesnt actually want to be elected. he should change his username to enigma.

its frightening that people like this can get anywhere near power.

he was trying to become a local councillor i think.

[Stuart Dickson]

I see it didn't take the SNP MP's long to get the hang of expenses claims. Patricia Gibson claimed an eye watering £35,349.85 in her first 3 months in the job. I can only assume she's had personal tuition from the king of troughers Alex Salmond.

[Bud the Baker]

I see it didn't take the SNP MP's long to get the hang of expenses claims. Patricia Gibson claimed an eye watering £35,349.85 in her first 3 months in the job. I can only assume she's had personal tuition from the king of troughers Alex Salmond.

Where do you find the time & energy to dig up this information and conduct half a dozen feuds simultaneously?

Do you drink the blood of virgins?

Come on Stu, tell us your secret........

Edited December 11, 2015 by Bud the Baker

[oaksoft]

I see it didn't take the SNP MP's long to get the hang of expenses claims. Patricia Gibson claimed an eye watering £35,349.85 in her first 3 months in the job. I can only assume she's had personal tuition from the king of troughers Alex Salmond.

It's not often I feel sorry for politicians but this is Daily Record journalism at its worst.

This woman has obviously decided to get the cheapest possible deal for rent and office space and has paid both for the entire year up front. It has only cost her £26k for the entire year for rent. Maybe bluto can confirm but that sounds like unbelievable value for money if she's living in London.

It's amazing value if she's living ANYWHERE to be honest.

It just so happens that when you pay things in advance they show up in your 1st quarter accounts. You'd have thought the journalist would have taken that into consideration and realised she's made a genuine effort to keep costs down but doing a Dickson was the route he chose.

It's a total non-story but they've thrown shit at her anyway.

A wee word of advice to the journo. See if you have to distort the facts to get a story? It means there is no value in your job. End of.

If you can't find real scandals then go and do a job which is more useful.

Edited December 11, 2015 by oaksoft

[cambiebud]

It's not often I feel sorry for politicians but this is Daily Record journalism at its worst.

This woman has obviously decided to get the cheapest possible deal for rent and office space and has paid both for the entire year up front. It has only cost her £26k for the entire year for rent. Maybe bluto can confirm but that sounds like unbelievable value for money if she's living in London.

It's amazing value if she's living ANYWHERE to be honest.

It just so happens that when you pay things in advance they show up in your 1st quarter accounts. You'd have thought the journalist would have taken that into consideration and realised she's made a genuine effort to keep costs down but doing a Dickson was the route he chose.

It's a total non-story but they've thrown shit at her anyway.

A wee word of advice to the journo. See if you have to distort the facts to get a story? It means there is no value in your job. End of.

If you can't find real scandals then go and do a job which is more useful.

Exactly. Maybe the said journalist could do a real investigation into the criminality at Greyskull. No other journalist has had the balls

[oaksoft]

I see it didn't take the SNP MP's long to get the hang of expenses claims. Patricia Gibson claimed an eye watering £35,349.85 in her first 3 months in the job. I can only assume she's had personal tuition from the king of troughers Alex Salmond.

i would have more respect for you if you had at least read the article rather than simply regurgitating the headline

[Sergie's no1 fan]

i would have more respect for you if you had at least read the article rather than simply regurgitating the headline

Reading headlines isn't really his strong point .

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/64423-st-mirren-sign-deuchar/

It's amazing though, how comes unionists are happy enough to slate Sturgeon and the SNP(bad) whenever they talk about Independence and how they are going against the will of the Scottish people, but 1 guy gives his opinion and Stu uses it as evidence that the Independence model is dead.

This isn't about Sturgeon, SNP MP's, Salmond or his mates, this is an issue that will not go away until independence happens.

I am not a SNP member or fan boy, I will vote for them until I can find another pro independence party worth voting for, even if my local MP or MSP ran over my dog I'd still be voting for them until we have independence ( or if another pro indy party come along )

If the SNP MP's turn into crooks, stealing tax payers money ect then it will just prove even more why Westminster doesn't work for us. Politicians are politicians at the end of the day no matter what badge they wear, but only 1 party is worthy of my vote just now. That might make me a natsi or a cybernat, that doesn't bother me, it just lets me know the establishment are rattled. Especially the old racist Tory round the corner from me who keeps trying to sway my vote every time I meet him .

[Stuart Dickson]

Reading headlines isn't really his strong point .

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/64423-st-mirren-sign-deuchar/

It's amazing though, how comes unionists are happy enough to slate Sturgeon and the SNP(bad) whenever they talk about Independence and how they are going against the will of the Scottish people, but 1 guy gives his opinion and Stu uses it as evidence that the Independence model is dead.

This isn't about Sturgeon, SNP MP's, Salmond or his mates, this is an issue that will not go away until independence happens.

I am not a SNP member or fan boy, I will vote for them until I can find another pro independence party worth voting for, even if my local MP or MSP ran over my dog I'd still be voting for them until we have independence ( or if another pro indy party come along )

If the SNP MP's turn into crooks, stealing tax payers money ect then it will just prove even more why Westminster doesn't work for us. Politicians are politicians at the end of the day no matter what badge they wear, but only 1 party is worthy of my vote just now. That might make me a natsi or a cybernat, that doesn't bother me, it just lets me know the establishment are rattled. Especially the old racist Tory round the corner from me who keeps trying to sway my vote every time I meet him .

That's because you are anti Scottish desperate to impose your will on the rest of the Scottish populous regardless of whether it's in their best interests or not. It's quite clear now that the SNP lied to the Scottish people when they claimed that we'd all be better off in an independent country all funded by our oil wealth. Fortunately 55% of the population were proud Scots who held a desire to do what was best for all 6 millions of us, and not just the SNP politicians who just want to cream as much money off the taxpayer as is humanly possible.

[Charlotte Saint]

That's because you are anti Scottish desperate to impose your will on the rest of the Scottish populous regardless of whether it's in their best interests or not. It's quite clear now that the SNP lied to the Scottish people when they claimed that we'd all be better off in an independent country all funded by our oil wealth. Fortunately 55% of the population were proud Scots who held a desire to do what was best for all 6 millions of us, and not just the SNP politicians who just want to cream as much money off the taxpayer as is humanly possible.

isn't it time you went off to bed