Stuart Dickson Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 1 hour ago, oaksoft said: A handy example of exactly what I am getting at in my last post. Grievance and snobbery all in one sentence. Classic working class. Do you think he's a homeowner though? Maybe even a Right To Buy homeowner? Loads of working class people with some of the biggest chips on their shoulder, took advantage of Margaret Thatchers Right To Buy policy. Like Nosferatu says, now they want to pull the drawbridge up. It's an attempt to stop class mobility. Both Labour and the SNP have been guilty of this for years. Instead of helping improve the situation for those who are poor, they campaign to steal opportunity away from those they profess to help. With Right To Buy all that was needed in Scotland was an adaption to how any money raised was appropriated. They could simply have put it back into building new social house building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 With Right To Buy all that was needed in Scotland was an adaption to how any money raised was appropriated. They could simply have put it back into building new social house building. Unfortunately the Blessed Margaret and those that followed in her image made that impossible to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Another reason for a lack of social housing is that , in many cases , flats that were occupied by our people had to be demolished because they had basically been wrecked by the occupants . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 4 minutes ago, saintnextlifetime said: Another reason for a lack of social housing is that , in many cases , flats that were occupied by our people had to be demolished because they had basically been wrecked by the occupants . . I wouldn't have thought this was a major factor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 9 hours ago, Slartibartfast said: I more see it as there are two groups - (1) those belonging to families that have run things for many generations (or used to) and royalty (i.e. those with influence) and (2) the rest of us. I don't even see the likes of a self made multimillionaire as being of a different social class to me. Their family's wealth, and therefore influence, will probably be gone in two or three generations after they die. As my hitchhiking friend in the post before you put it - if you have to work to keep your standard of living then you are "working class" or, as I would put it "one of the rest of us". That is obviously not a hard and fast rule as, for example, the aforementioned self made multimillionaires may not have to do so, although they may choose to continue working. I would class those with "sharp elbows" as being ignorant, arrogant and self centred, not middle class. If it's all about how you view yourself then you could be upper class if you considered yourself to be, irrespective of family, money, connections or influence. Is that what you are saying? If classes exist at all then it is surely more about how others view you, not about how you view yourself. I thought those with a chip on their shoulder were called " Sevco fans" not "working class". I have no idea why having sharp elbows would make you ignorant. Arrogant and self centred? I dont see too much wrong with a bit of either of those. I didnt say that having sharp elbows made you middle class. I said that middle class people tend to develop sharp elbows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Unfortunately the Blessed Margaret and those that followed in her image made that impossible to do. Hmm, explain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 12 hours ago, Stuart Dickson said: I'm glad we've established this. I'm hourly paid, and get paid overtime. Yet I also own two houses - both paid for - take regular holidays abroad staying in luxury class hotels almost every time, and if I dropped dead tomorrow my sons would be troubled by HMRC for Inheritance Tax and I don't even have a degree. Every day I thank Mrs Thatcher for the wonderful society we live in that allows such easy social mobility. I can't imagine how shite it would be to have been brought up Russian or Chinese where everyone was supposed to be equal unless they were in the Communist Party. Nosferatu is right though. The SNP's politics is that of anger, envy and jealousy. Keep every man down and blame it on the English. What a sad way to live you life. Looking at your above post- I think you have just justified what your about. Not Thatcher- don't credit her. As always you also completely contradict yourself.... with the look what I have and thank god I am not like "them" quote. There are far richer people in China and Russia that Thatcher had nothing to do with... Anyway I shall leave you to your very comfortable wee world, I am sure you can afford to get your blinkers surgically removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Drew, you see my fellow bud, this is exactly why the Scots don't get independence. And its frustrating. Are we anti- Tory- Anti BJ- Anti Monachary, Anti Theressa. That's why we fail. 2014 was a dry run. No one expected it close certainly not the SNPs which is why they wanted Demo Max . Camerons arrogance nearly cost him then never mind Brexit later. I want an Independent Scotland but not until- Europe is decided not just used as " we are different result nation". Why did Eng vote out and why did Scotland vote in? Currency- WTF- Get a real proposal forward this time. Pensions, Health - Whats the plan? You cant live off tartan. Defence- Whats the plan? Stop making this anit English and start making it pro Scottish. I reckon until the above are answered we are tied to rUK, simply cause they do have the above answers, even though they are a shower of charlatans Personally I don't judge people by the cover of their book. It's the content that matters that determans class or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 (edited) 23 hours ago, shull said: I could live off shortbread Edited August 2, 2016 by Stuart Dickson f**king silly forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 2 hours ago, DougJamie said: Looking at your above post- I think you have just justified what your about. Not Thatcher- don't credit her. As always you also completely contradict yourself.... with the look what I have and thank god I am not like "them" quote. There are far richer people in China and Russia that Thatcher had nothing to do with... Anyway I shall leave you to your very comfortable wee world, I am sure you can afford to get your blinkers surgically removed I don't think you understand my post. There's no contradiction at all. I don't want the race to the bottom that Communism or Socialism brings. I want a system where hard work and enterprise are rewarded. And whilst you are right that some in Russia and China have today built up incredible wealth that only happened AFTER the scrapping of the principle that everyone is supposed to be equal and embracing capitalism. Of course many of those who have accumulated great wealth in Russia and China have done so through their membership of the Communist Party, and through a great deal of corruption within those political and social models. Thankfully we had Mrs Thatcher - a hero of the working classes - who facilitated a quantum leap in living standards for the vast majority of our 66 million people. What a wonderful woman she was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 23 hours ago, shull said: I could live off shortbread. Especially Walkers Actually, Duncans of Deeside is my favourite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 I don't think you understand my post. There's no contradiction at all. I don't want the race to the bottom that Communism or Socialism brings. I want a system where hard work and enterprise are rewarded. And whilst you are right that some in Russia and China have today built up incredible wealth that only happened AFTER the scrapping of the principle that everyone is supposed to be equal and embracing capitalism. Of course many of those who have accumulated great wealth in Russia and China have done so through their membership of the Communist Party, and through a great deal of corruption within those political and social models. Thankfully we had Mrs Thatcher - a hero of the working classes - who facilitated a quantum leap in living standards for the vast majority of our 66 million people. What a wonderful woman she was. Yes capitalism is working , seriously are you not lost in space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Actually, Duncans of Deeside is my favourite. Mine too. Honourable mention for Borders biscuits too. The dark chocolate gingers are the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: Yes capitalism is working , seriously are you not lost in space. Ofcourse it's working. Of the top 10 economies in the world, only China was a Socialist country. Russia for all it's wealth and power doesn't make the top 10 and North Korea don't even register anywhere in the world rankings. You only need to look at the Eastern Blok states in the EU today to see just how Socialism deprived their workers by keeping them in poverty. http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/022415/worlds-top-10-economies.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 2 hours ago, Stuart Dickson said: I don't think you understand my post. There's no contradiction at all. I don't want the race to the bottom that Communism or Socialism brings. I want a system where hard work and enterprise are rewarded. And whilst you are right that some in Russia and China have today built up incredible wealth that only happened AFTER the scrapping of the principle that everyone is supposed to be equal and embracing capitalism. Of course many of those who have accumulated great wealth in Russia and China have done so through their membership of the Communist Party, and through a great deal of corruption within those political and social models. Thankfully we had Mrs Thatcher - a hero of the working classes - who facilitated a quantum leap in living standards for the vast majority of our 66 million people. What a wonderful woman she was. Congrats Stu u are my 1000th post, and you will probably just reply pash!!! Ok prepared for it. But will try to keep balanced Not to many times in history has Maggie been described as a working class hero, and whilst I agree that after her demise, she did get blamed for a lot of faults that were already there. She was ruthless, and hit were she had to, but also smashed where she didn't, the Falklands showed, she was also highly power driven and corrupt, but hey ho... what leaders aren't. See told you balanced... Think we agree that any extreme is dangerous, whether it be left or right, Maggie was certainly no wonderful woman, she was however a very strong leader. Where she lead the UK was from a bankrupt state, to a top 5 power, however that top 5 power now has back tracked into a debt ridden American puppet. Mainly thanks to Mr Blair/Brown.. Is the country better off, probably in the great scheme yes. But we have a huge divide not only in beliefs, but a dangerous leaning to the right. Just as bad as a dangerous leaning to the left. SNP- Are not a govt, they are a movement. If we had any kind of representation in Scotland then we could be a force but we don't. Little Labour, Blind Tories and powerless Liberals. Thanks for getting me to 1000 !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Congrats Stu u are my 1000th post, and you will probably just reply pash!!! Ok prepared for it. But will try to keep balanced Not to many times in history has Maggie been described as a working class hero, and whilst I agree that after her demise, she did get blamed for a lot of faults that were already there. She was ruthless, and hit were she had to, but also smashed where she didn't, the Falklands showed, she was also highly power driven and corrupt, but hey ho... what leaders aren't. See told you balanced... Think we agree that any extreme is dangerous, whether it be left or right, Maggie was certainly no wonderful woman, she was however a very strong leader. Where she lead the UK was from a bankrupt state, to a top 5 power, however that top 5 power now has back tracked into a debt ridden American puppet. Mainly thanks to Mr Blair/Brown.. Is the country better off, probably in the great scheme yes. But we have a huge divide not only in beliefs, but a dangerous leaning to the right. Just as bad as a dangerous leaning to the left. SNP- Are not a govt, they are a movement. If we had any kind of representation in Scotland then we could be a force but we don't. Little Labour, Blind Tories and powerless Liberals. Thanks for getting me to 1000 !! Another lost in space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 3 hours ago, DougJamie said: Congrats Stu u are my 1000th post, and you will probably just reply pash!!! Ok prepared for it. But will try to keep balanced Not to many times in history has Maggie been described as a working class hero, and whilst I agree that after her demise, she did get blamed for a lot of faults that were already there. She was ruthless, and hit were she had to, but also smashed where she didn't, the Falklands showed, she was also highly power driven and corrupt, but hey ho... what leaders aren't. See told you balanced... Think we agree that any extreme is dangerous, whether it be left or right, Maggie was certainly no wonderful woman, she was however a very strong leader. Where she lead the UK was from a bankrupt state, to a top 5 power, however that top 5 power now has back tracked into a debt ridden American puppet. Mainly thanks to Mr Blair/Brown.. Is the country better off, probably in the great scheme yes. But we have a huge divide not only in beliefs, but a dangerous leaning to the right. Just as bad as a dangerous leaning to the left. SNP- Are not a govt, they are a movement. If we had any kind of representation in Scotland then we could be a force but we don't. Little Labour, Blind Tories and powerless Liberals. Thanks for getting me to 1000 !! You cant claim to be balanced when you have just called Thatcher "corrupt". Also, "dangerous leaning to the right"? No idea what you are talking about here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 5 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: Yes capitalism is working , seriously are you not lost in space. Capitalism is sadly the best system we have which doesnt think the way to achieve equality is to drag high achievers back into the same shite as the lowest in society. Come up with a better system and I am sure you will get a fair hearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 3 hours ago, DougJamie said: Congrats Stu u are my 1000th post, and you will probably just reply pash!!! Ok prepared for it. But will try to keep balanced Not to many times in history has Maggie been described as a working class hero, and whilst I agree that after her demise, she did get blamed for a lot of faults that were already there. She was ruthless, and hit were she had to, but also smashed where she didn't, the Falklands showed, she was also highly power driven and corrupt, but hey ho... what leaders aren't. See told you balanced... Think we agree that any extreme is dangerous, whether it be left or right, Maggie was certainly no wonderful woman, she was however a very strong leader. Where she lead the UK was from a bankrupt state, to a top 5 power, however that top 5 power now has back tracked into a debt ridden American puppet. Mainly thanks to Mr Blair/Brown.. Is the country better off, probably in the great scheme yes. But we have a huge divide not only in beliefs, but a dangerous leaning to the right. Just as bad as a dangerous leaning to the left. SNP- Are not a govt, they are a movement. If we had any kind of representation in Scotland then we could be a force but we don't. Little Labour, Blind Tories and powerless Liberals. Thanks for getting me to 1000 !! I'm not sure what you mean by no representation. I've got an SNP MP and an SNP MSP in my constituency. Both are worse than useless but they are my representatives in Parliament. The figures show that things are nowhere near as bad as the SNP would have us believe. The UK is still an economic powerhouse. We still more than pay our way in the world with a huge international aid budget. We will have one of the highest minimum wages anywhere in the world in the next few years. Out of all the major economies we're moving to become the one with the cheapest tax regime. Those with mortgages are seeing record low interest rates and international investment houses are investing heavily in UK Government Gilts and Bonds despite the low yield allowing the UK Government the ability to borrow incredibly cheaply. Even when it comes to those on welfare benefits we have one of the most generous systems, there aren't many other countries that would give their unemployed enough money to enjoy a decent standard of living whilst enjoying two family vacations per year with their families. The UK's a great place to live. And on topic Thatchers Right To Buy Scheme enabled home ownership for those caught in a rent trap whilst offloading a lot of slum housing stock that local authorities couldn't afford to maintain to people who would give them the love and attention it needed. A wonderful woman is exactly what she was. I only hope Theresa May is fit to lace her boots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 15 hours ago, oaksoft said: You cant claim to be balanced when you have just called Thatcher "corrupt". Also, "dangerous leaning to the right"? No idea what you are talking about here. Well I can claim whatever I like. You just have a different view point- live with it. And calling Thatcher just corrupt is balanced as all Leading Politian's are. If you didn't realize that the Tories under May and Johnson and the rest of capitalists are on the right getting further you have been watching to much BBC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 15 hours ago, oaksoft said: Capitalism is sadly the best system we have which doesnt think the way to achieve equality is to drag high achievers back into the same shite as the lowest in society. Come up with a better system and I am sure you will get a fair hearing. Not the unfettered capitalism which lead to the Economic crash of the 30's and which I suspect TM and her Cabinet would take us back to if they could. There's a difference between achievement and exploitation while the first is to be applauded the second most certainly isn't. As an aside I was interested to hear ex-Pensions Minister Baroness Altman (flying a kite for TM?) saying that the pension triple-lock couldn't be maintained beyond 2020. Only two years since an independent Scotland's ability to maintain pension levels was being questioned by Better Together during the referendum campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 2 hours ago, DougJamie said: Well I can claim whatever I like. You just have a different view point- live with it. And calling Thatcher just corrupt is balanced as all Leading Politian's are. If you didn't realize that the Tories under May and Johnson and the rest of capitalists are on the right getting further you have been watching to much BBC Why the aggression? Calm down FFS. It's only a forum. I am questioning the word "dangerous". As for the word "corrupt", if you want to accuse people of that you are fine and welcome to do so but be brave enough to put it in writing and defend yourself in court. Personally I think you need to get your ego in check a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said: There's a difference between achievement and exploitation while the first is to be applauded the second most certainly isn't. I agree. Modern day exploitation comes in the form of zero hour contracts which should be abolished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Why the aggression? Calm down FFS. It's only a forum. I am questioning the word "dangerous". As for the word "corrupt", if you want to accuse people of that you are fine and welcome to do so but be brave enough to put it in writing and defend yourself in court. Personally I think you need to get your ego in check a little. Thanks for the legal advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 1 minute ago, DougJamie said: Thanks for the legal advice I fear I may be wasting my time on someone who believes that independence should be won "on the battlefield". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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