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SMISA meeting 6/9/21


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13 hours ago, Doakes said:

All updates in OP

Hoped that questions would be answered but if anything seems to have raised more questions.

Disappointed that Tony F and Jim Gillespie (or someone else from Kibble) didn’t show, was a great chance to get everything out. 

Hearing that the meeting is still going but mostly just shouting at the moment

I read on Twitter another meeting has been arranged for 4 weeks time. I know it was a smisa meeting with smisa members, though with the negativity shared amongst some of the support towards Kibble, surely they should be invited along or they should at least ask to attend the next one, along with Tony so they are digesting what the feedback is in person and explaining how they can improve things their side. The general manager role to me sounds a bit alarming if its not been given to someone with the relevant experience. 
Tony has also had a lot of flak and he has a right to defend from his perspective. 

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4 minutes ago, kevo_smfc said:

I read on Twitter another meeting has been arranged for 4 weeks time. I know it was a smisa meeting with smisa members, though with the negativity shared amongst some of the support towards Kibble, surely they should be invited along or they should at least ask to attend the next one, along with Tony so they are digesting what the feedback is in person and explaining how they can improve things their side. The general manager role to me sounds a bit alarming if its not been given to someone with the relevant experience. 
Tony has also had a lot of flak and he has a right to defend from his perspective. 

Totally agree, SMISA should invite kibble. I'm not interested in a blame game - i've worked a lot with kibble over the years and they have done some very good work with young people - but in my experience their business is paramount, and the justifiable concerns is they are making decisions based on kibbles best interests rather than the clubs, despite attempts to claim otherwise. Concerns are made worse by the lack of transparency over how their involvement works, and the constant "great bunch of lads" patter from the club.

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19 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Noooooo.... You mentioned Companies House! You had to, didn't you. It was "proven" how unreliable that is by an expert! emoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji12.png

You just can't help yourself can you? To the levels you have ramped up your lying on here.

No one ever said Companies house wasn't reliable as a source of data, just that it is not a tool to perform full due diligence on in isolation. The meeting last night confirmed that people losing their mind over the Stewarding situation had completely overreacted. 

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18 minutes ago, Slash said:

About 20 minutes in he was asked by a ‘vocal minority shareholder’ (VMS) to do exactly that. But he swerved that option.

JN refused point blank to answer a valid question from a VMS on what the “historical” Health and Safety issues were that meant only 1039 fans were allowed into the stadium for matches at the beginning of the season. VMS suggested raising a Freedom of Information request on Renfrewshire Council to get to the truth. 

At the tale end of the meeting another VMS why the results of the pre-meeting survey were not presented to the audience and used as a formal agenda for the meeting. Further VMS’s repeatedly asked for a follow up meeting as they felt the questions asked were not being fully answered. JN stated he did not want a follow up meeting.

Another VMS proposed a show of hands to assess what the audience wanted and the overwhelming majority wanted another meeting.

I salute the VMS’s who took time out of their lives to attend last nights meeting.

A VMS travelled 1000miles to be there last night. Prior to his attendance he took the time to watch the Kibble-SMiSA-GLS “sales pitch” and the points he made referring back to that proposal were met with a round of applause. IIRC they centred on “Professionalism”, “IT Improvements”, “Customer Service” and so on.

But to Baz, they are just a vocal minority. To be laughed at and ignored.

Seems like a vocal minority, I certainly can't see a majority of St Mirren fans contributing to this.

Your last point is more spin, I have never said or remotely suggested that. Surely we can agree on the irony regarding your Tory comment now? 

Out of interest, can anyone name a long-term problem the club is currently facing that we can attribute to the Kibble? 

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You just can't help yourself can you? To the levels you have ramped up your lying on here.
No one ever said Companies house wasn't reliable as a source of data, just that it is not a tool to perform full due diligence on in isolation. The meeting last night confirmed that people losing their mind over the Stewarding situation had completely overreacted. 
Here fishy fishy!

So easy!
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You just can't help yourself can you? To the levels you have ramped up your lying on here.
No one ever said Companies house wasn't reliable as a source of data, just that it is not a tool to perform full due diligence on in isolation. The meeting last night confirmed that people losing their mind over the Stewarding situation had completely overreacted. 
Again... You totally diss the stewards... Many of whom are St Mirren fans with up to 20 years service to the club.

Still... What do you care about them being made unemployed and seeing their jobs advertised?

You have all the compassion of Thatcher for miners or the people of Ravenscraig.
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Just now, BuddieinEK said:

Again... You totally diss the stewards... Many of whom are St Mirren fans with up to 20 years service to the club.

Still... What do you care about them being made unemployed and seeing their jobs advertised?

You have all the compassion of Thatcher for miners or the people of Ravenscraig. emoji850.png

Where did I diss the stewards, can you point it out?

Another day, another absolute nightmare for you :D 

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1 minute ago, Slash said:

The situation with stewarding was also raised last night. Did you know that the reason why we could increase capacity for the St Johnstone game was because the original replacement company Asigura left after one game, and the new company were not in place long enough for the club to ask for an increased capacity. But hey it was only St Johnstone. If they can afford Range Rovers and tractors, surely they can by PPV. Another failure. How long have they had to resolve the stewarding contract. 
 

IIRC the old stewarding company handled all games up until the Thistle game. It does seem strange that such an important contract was allowed to be run down during a season which is what JN said. Why were the old stewards forced to sign NDA? 
 

Surely from an operational standpoint that contract would terminate after the end of a football season.

As I have said a few times now, all seems pretty short-term regarding the issues & it isn't reasonable to expect zero teething problems when you change an operating model. Is there anything actually long-term that is showing as an issue with the Kibble? 

Did anyone ask why (or indeed if) they were told to sign NDA's?

 

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As I have said a few times now, all seems pretty short-term regarding the issues & it isn't reasonable to expect zero teething problems when you change an operating model. Is there anything actually long-term that is showing as an issue with the Kibble? 
Did anyone ask why (or indeed if) they were told to sign NDA's?
 
They obviously cannot disclose that!

You really are stupid!
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9 hours ago, rabuddies said:

One meeting and everybody is at each other's throats, raised voices and insults flying everywhere.  Fan ownership needs the right people at the top which will require some tough decisions. It also needs the fans to put up and shut up until the club is on a proper footing.  It will all end in tears you know.

Bring back Reg Brealey 

65391EF9-EB22-4FF2-BBFA-679EF80939DC.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, Slash said:

You were not there last night so you have no basis to say that there are not any issues. 

I recognised many St Mirren diehards (and VMS) who have traveled far and wide in their love of our football club. 

I reckon I could pass you in the street and not even blink.

 

I didn't say there weren't issues, I'm asking if anyone has a view on issues that will be long-term? I haven't heard one yet. 

I don't doubt people have their hearts in the right place on this, my personal opinion is some have blown the situation WAY out of proportion. People are welcome to try and change that view but again, I'm not seeing anything that concerns me long-term and I am not of the mindset everything should be champagne and rainbows during the early months of a transition. 

1 minute ago, BuddieinEK said:

They obviously cannot disclose that!

You really are stupid! emoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji23.png

I am dubious at best that NDA's were signed. I am not asking for the details regarding them, just if we have anything concrete that this actually happened. As a serial liar, you are not the best witness and I haven't had sight of anything else that would lead me to conclude this was correct. For avoidance of doubt, I'm not saying it hasn't, more "I'll believe it when I see it". 

You've obviously not understood my simple point on this, given I have explained I will now accept your apology for calling me stupid... :D 

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I am dubious at best that NDA's were signed. I am not asking for the details regarding them, just if we have anything concrete that this actually happened. As a serial liar, you are not the best witness and I haven't had sight of anything else that would lead me to conclude this was correct. For avoidance of doubt, I'm not saying it hasn't, more "I'll believe it when I see it". 
You've obviously not understood my simple point on this, given I have explained I will now accept your apology for calling me stupid...  
Epic fail.

Slash raised the subject of the NDA's, not me.

Dafty.
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Looking at the updates/comments, questions and answers, was it only the  SMFC Chairman and SMISA Chairman there at the top table.

As it was a SMISA meeting, should the elected SMISA reps not also have been there too, even the appointed ones not there either. Given their presence at board meetings held and the accountability they are supposed to offer to SMISA members ,it seems a good opportunity wasted.

To get the deal over the line with the Kibble and achieve Fan Ownership sooner than planned, I am getting signals of the old saying "Act in haste, repent at your leisure". 

A new found hard nosed business strategy mixed with an "it'll be alright in the morning" attitude wont work.

Club caught out by Shirt sponsors but the other stuff with foresight and planning should have been way less of an issue. 

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46 minutes ago, Slash said:

 

JN refused point blank to answer a valid question from a VMS on what the “historical” Health and Safety issues were that meant only 1039 fans were allowed into the stadium for matches at the beginning of the season. VMS suggested raising a Freedom of Information request on Renfrewshire Council to get to the truth. 

As a guess. The reduced capacity likely relates to the lack of valid certification for the emergency escape lighting and the back up generator that was mentioned as a passing issue previously. It brushed over the fact that the club are not maintaining equipment that is in place for the preservation of life.  By not answering the question contradicts the purpose of the meeting. why was it missed, who discovered it and what was the cost to fix it.

It’s quite clear from your post that like most clubs we are supported by fans who have at times have more knowledge on the issues at hand than the board. They also don’t like to be treated like idiots by asking valid questions.

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12 minutes ago, alanb said:

Looking at the updates/comments, questions and answers, was it only the  SMFC Chairman and SMISA Chairman there at the top table.

As it was a SMISA meeting, should the elected SMISA reps not also have been there too, even the appointed ones not there either. Given their presence at board meetings held and the accountability they are supposed to offer to SMISA members ,it seems a good opportunity wasted.

To get the deal over the line with the Kibble and achieve Fan Ownership sooner than planned, I am getting signals of the old saying "Act in haste, repent at your leisure". 

A new found hard nosed business strategy mixed with an "it'll be alright in the morning" attitude wont work.

Club caught out by Shirt sponsors but the other stuff with foresight and planning should have been way less of an issue. 

I think you will find that these other representatives only appear for the plaudits. The consensus from the survey I’m sure showed that last night was going to be a shitstorm of a meeting, hence why they went into hiding.

JN tag line appears to have been i know nothing, I’m new to the job. Its no my fault. It’s all Tonys fault. Proceeded by we are a better club when we all work together.

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16 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Epic fail.

Slash raised the subject of the NDA's, not me.

Dafty. emoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji23.png

 Ouch... Surely at this stage you HAVE to apologise? You've literally been completely caught-out. I won't hold my breath. 

 

7 minutes ago, Slash said:

To be fair I only made the reference to NDAs because you had previously brought that to our attention. So maybe I’m the dafty for believing you! 😂 

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image.png

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1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

I would say there's a few points we know. People can make up their own minds on the partnership (indeed I feel a few, probably including yourself made up their mind before they had even stepped in the door when you look at your karting comment). 

- There are a number of legacy issues with the stadium and training ground. These have not been properly identified or addressed until the Kibble came onboard, yes that is ongoing right now but at least it has started.

- We have changed over several contracts this year. This links into fan communication on what the Kibble would support with regarding their business contacts and business models to support people under their nature of business. 

- We are ONLY a few months into a settled arrangement regarding the club ownership.

- Fans have shown concerns about our ticket system for a long time, some have asked us to explore in-house merchandise/ third party ownerships and our standing main sponsor (that pre-dated Kibble) moved the goalposts on a deal at the last minute. 

 

Now people can look at all these known points and jump to "Kibble bad" that's absolutely their right. My opinion is: 

- It's FAR too soon to conclude that this is not the right direction

- Seems like Kibble are doing what they said they would do & I think expectations that would be completely seamless are ridiculously unrealistic 

- Most of the issues seem pretty short-term to me

- I don't think it's a coincidence that experienced business partners have come onboard and some skeletons have been found in the closet. 

These are my views, I'm used to being attacked because I don't automatically jump to an Armageddon scenario but unless I start to see some concerns that look more long-term and detrimental to SMFC, I will have a little bit more patience and understanding than some. 

Your Tory comment is ironic, you're the one that's spinning points on a football club to negatives about part of their ownership model. 

 

 

I hate to rain on your parade Baz, but I have to point out that the Kibble organisation are very experienced at running specialist child and youth care services. However this does not make them “experienced business partners” 

The kibble have a secure funding stream from local authority SW & education departments around the country who use there services. They do not operate in a competitive market place (they are the biggest by a long way and have very little competition for contracts) so there experience in the area of social care is vast, however I would not say that this experience would be that helpful in running a football club. 

I think the idea of the Kibble being involved is good from a social conscience view point, however they are not experts in commercial business. 

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2 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

As a guess. The reduced capacity likely relates to the lack of valid certification for the emergency escape lighting and the back up generator that was mentioned as a passing issue previously. It brushed over the fact that the club are not maintaining equipment that is in place for the preservation of life.  By not answering the question contradicts the purpose of the meeting. why was it missed, who discovered it and what was the cost to fix it.

It’s quite clear from your post that like most clubs we are supported by fans who have at times have more knowledge on the issues at hand than the board. They also don’t like to be treated like idiots by asking valid questions.

If that was a H&S issue then I struggle to understand how we were allowed to operate with even a limited capacity.  
 

Maybe we never had anywhere near the required number of stewards to support a capacity above 1000 when they attempted to employ Asigura for the job.
 

Considering they seemingly got binned and replaced with SGL for the next game. 

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5 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

I think you will find that these other representatives only appear for the plaudits. The consensus from the survey I’m sure showed that last night was going to be a shitstorm of a meeting, hence why they went into hiding.

JN tag line appears to have been i know nothing, I’m new to the job. Its no my fault. It’s all Tonys fault. Proceeded by we are a better club when we all work together.

Almost like the modus operandi of a politician, here wait a minute.......

2D465534-C0F4-4832-913B-F861CBA0AE9B.jpeg

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4 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

I hate to rain on your parade Baz, but I have to point out that the Kibble organisation are very experienced at running specialist child and youth care services. However this does not make them “experienced business partners” 

The kibble have a secure funding stream from local authority SW & education departments around the country who use there services. They do not operate in a competitive market place (they are the biggest by a long way and have very little competition for contracts) so there experience in the area of social care is vast, however I would not say that this experience would be that helpful in running a football club. 

I think the idea of the Kibble being involved is good from a social conscience view point, however they are not experts in commercial business. 

Time will tell, I'm only going on what the club have said regarding the Kibbles knowledge and expertise. I choose to believe that but the proof will be in the pudding over the next few years. 

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5 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

I think you will find that these other representatives only appear for the plaudits. The consensus from the survey I’m sure showed that last night was going to be a shitstorm of a meeting, hence why they went into hiding.

JN tag line appears to have been i know nothing, I’m new to the job. Its no my fault. It’s all Tonys fault. Proceeded by we are a better club when we all work together.

Some guys are born to wear blazers 

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