Scum Israeli cnuts slaughter innocents

[faraway saint]

2 hours ago, W6er said:

Not sure I follow you, here. Punishment beatings were usually inflicted upon people within the paramilitaries' own communities - ostensibly for drug dealing, joy riding or other criminal behaviour. I appreciate that there was no trial and the evidence based upon hearsay, potentially unreliable witness (never cross-examined), etc. However, for a long time they had the support of their communities. Indeed, many who think our criminal justice system is a soft touch would probably like that sort of treatment to be meted out for certain crimes here - didn't you once claim that you would like to personally execute certain criminals?

Johnny 'Mad Dog' Adair was expelled from Northern Ireland, btw.

 

I think you are slightly out of touch with reality here as these paramilitary groups were high powered thugs who themselves were heavily involved in illegal activities.

As for your hilarious part highlighted which shows you've never experienced the fear these communities lived in for the dread of a late night knock on the door or being bundled into a van in the dark of night.

As for my belief that certain criminals should be executed, that's another planet from what you're trying to paint as paramilitary groups being a nice helpful part of the community. 🙄

Edited November 8, 2023 by faraway saint

[W6er]

2 hours ago, faraway saint said:

I think you are slightly out of touch with reality here as these paramilitary groups were high powered thugs who themselves were heavily involved in illegal activities.

As for your hilarious part highlighted which shows you've never experienced the fear these communities lived in for the dread of a late night knock on the door or being bundled into a van in the dark of night.

As for my belief that certain criminals should be executed, that's another planet from what you're trying to paint as paramilitary groups being a nice helpful part of the community. 🙄

They certainly have the reputation of being thugs, now. I visit Belfast every couple of years or so, and was in East Belfast a couple of months back and got talking to three lassies working in a local shop and that was their opinion. However, when I asked them whether it was always so, they said that they began with good intentions and had the support of the local community. However, as with any organisation with power that is not subject to public scrutiny (and paramilitaries tend not to be), they began to abuse their power and, especially after the Good Friday/Belfast Agreement, they basically became a group drug-dealing, racketeering scumbags.

There were always rogues. Lenny Murphy is probably the most obvious, and despite having a UVF grave it is strongly suspected there was collusion between the UVF and the IRA in order to have him assassinated because he was such an embarrassment to them. 

I am by no means an apologist for any of the paramilitaries, however to compare them to Hamas is disingenuous - especially if you believe the reports about them beheading 40 babies and cutting out and beheading foetuses! 🤢 🤯 That is simply not comparable to even the murders committed by the Shankill Butchers or the torture/murder of Jean McConville (allegedly sanctioned by Gerry Adams!).   

With respect to The Troubles, according to Wikipedia:

Quote

More than 3,500 people were killed in the conflict, of whom 52% were civilians, 32% were members of the British security forces, and 16% were members of paramilitary groups. Republican paramilitaries were responsible for some 60% of the deaths, loyalists 30%, and security forces 10%.

 

So you're talking of a decades long conflict that claimed the lives of approximately 1,600 civilians. According to CNN:

Quote

At least 10,022 people have been killed in Gaza since the beginning of the war on October 7 – 4,104 were under the age of 18. Note: Data as of Nov. 6, 2023.

So in a single month almost three times the number of deaths have been recorded in Gaza than in all of the decades of The Troubles. My conclusion would be that the Palestinian/Israel conflict is much worse both in terms of the wickedness of the atrocities (allegedly) committed, which I agree is somewhat subjective (some folk believe that foetuses are not human beings, for example), and in terms of the fatalities recorded.

 

[Jockmd]

18 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Now come on! I have been watching this battle since the 70s , no one is trying to say it all started in 7/10. 

Albion, come on, I said, 'Oct 7 is relayed as the starting point of all this killing'.  'is relayed' suggests that society/media has the understanding that it all started on 7/10 - not me!  Look at my other posts which shows my emphasis on the lack of historical context.

[faraway saint]

3 hours ago, W6er said:

They certainly have the reputation of being thugs, now. I visit Belfast every couple of years or so, and was in East Belfast a couple of months back and got talking to three lassies working in a local shop and that was their opinion. However, when I asked them whether it was always so, they said that they began with good intentions and had the support of the local community. However, as with any organisation with power that is not subject to public scrutiny (and paramilitaries tend not to be), they began to abuse their power and, especially after the Good Friday/Belfast Agreement, they basically became a group drug-dealing, racketeering scumbags.

There were always rogues. Lenny Murphy is probably the most obvious, and despite having a UVF grave it is strongly suspected there was collusion between the UVF and the IRA in order to have him assassinated because he was such an embarrassment to them. 

I am by no means an apologist for any of the paramilitaries, however to compare them to Hamas is disingenuous - especially if you believe the reports about them beheading 40 babies and cutting out and beheading foetuses! 🤢 🤯 That is simply not comparable to even the murders committed by the Shankill Butchers or the torture/murder of Jean McConville (allegedly sanctioned by Gerry Adams!).   

With respect to The Troubles, according to Wikipedia:

 

So you're talking of a decades long conflict that claimed the lives of approximately 1,600 civilians. According to CNN:

So in a single month almost three times the number of deaths have been recorded in Gaza than in all of the decades of The Troubles. My conclusion would be that the Palestinian/Israel conflict is much worse both in terms of the wickedness of the atrocities (allegedly) committed, which I agree is somewhat subjective (some folk believe that foetuses are not human beings, for example), and in terms of the fatalities recorded.

 

You're getting confused and heading down the wrong road.

I'm not even suggesting that the atrocious, and there were thousands, carried out by the nutcases in Ireland are in the same league as the lunatics in Hamas.

I was clearly responding to a point that the Irish loonballs hadn't carried out indiscriminate attacks throughout the trobles which, quite clearly, they did.

I'll take a break from this as I can't be arsed getting dragged into the historic examples of who done what. 

As I've maintained throughout, this level of violence is unprecidented and thousands are dying and living in fear because nutters enjoy playing with guns. 

[W6er]

4 hours ago, faraway saint said:

You're getting confused and heading down the wrong road.

I'm not even suggesting that the atrocious, and there were thousands, carried out by the nutcases in Ireland are in the same league as the lunatics in Hamas.

I was clearly responding to a point that the Irish loonballs hadn't carried out indiscriminate attacks throughout the trobles which, quite clearly, they did.

I'll take a break from this as I can't be arsed getting dragged into the historic examples of who done what. 

As I've maintained throughout, this level of violence is unprecidented and thousands are dying and living in fear because nutters enjoy playing with guns. 

Fair enough. Though punishment beatings are the opposite of indiscriminate. An individual is specifically targeted and given a horrendous beating. Certainly both sides killed Indiscriminately - the IRA's preferred method being bombs and the Loyalists certainly shot up pubs (though a case could be made that they targeted Republican pubs) and, to a lesser extent than the IRA planted bombs. No arguments there. 

[ALBIONSAINT]

15 hours ago, Jockmd said:

Albion, come on, I said, 'Oct 7 is relayed as the starting point of all this killing'.  'is relayed' suggests that society/media has the understanding that it all started on 7/10 - not me!  Look at my other posts which shows my emphasis on the lack of historical context.

Indeed, social media and parts of the reactionary youth. Similar thing happened with Ukraine last year, even though the Dumbas region was invaded in 2014!! Stupid reactionary’s  

[W6er]

 

[ALBIONSAINT]

1 hour ago, W6er said:

 

I take it Hamas provided these figures? I guess this is the cost of using your citizens as human shields, Barbarism.

[Slarti]

I take it Hamas provided these figures? I guess this is the cost of using your citizens as human shields, Barbarism.

I'd assume that being as densely populated as London and having nearly half the population under 18 has something to do with it, too. Also, being a religiously motivated organisation, I would expect Hamas to have its fair share of young impressionable "boy soldiers".

Again, to be clear, both sides are total cunts in this.

[antrin]

Israel perhaps more so, as the State of Israel helped usher in the creation of Hamas because it saw its leaders and activists as “religious”  thus “good” - and not militant like Fatah or PFLP.

The Israelis even arrested Muslim Brotherhood leader in Gaza, Ahmad Yassin, with a stockpile of weapons, but let him go when he explained they were to be used against secular Palestinians, like Fatah.

Religious bigots sticking together…

[Slarti]

Israel perhaps more so, as the State of Israel helped usher in the creation of Hamas because it saw its leaders and activists as “religious”  thus “good” - and not militant like Fatah or PFLP.
The Israelis even arrested Muslim Brotherhood leader in Gaza, Ahmad Yassin, with a stockpile of weapons, but let him go when he explained they were to be used against secular Palestinians, like Fatah.
Religious bigots sticking together…

Maybe there's a new thread needed, "Absolute Total Cunts".

[W6er]

17 hours ago, antrin said:

Israel perhaps more so, as the State of Israel helped usher in the creation of Hamas because it saw its leaders and activists as “religious”  thus “good” - and not militant like Fatah or PFLP.

The Israelis even arrested Muslim Brotherhood leader in Gaza, Ahmad Yassin, with a stockpile of weapons, but let him go when he explained they were to be used against secular Palestinians, like Fatah.

Religious bigots sticking together…

I'm not disputing what you're claiming, as indeed I am also aware that the Israel supported Hamas against the PLO. However, I find it difficult to believe that the Israelis have ever seen Islam as 'good'. The Israeli leaders will have surely been aware that creating an enemy who believes dying on the battlefield for Allah will lead to paradise and 72 virgins, is likely a far more formidable foe than one who doesn't believe that. I would imagine a far more likely explanation would have been to create factionalism within the Palestinian nationalist movement. 

Furthermore, it seems obvious to me that an Islamic-inspired movement is likely to naturally appeal to the world's Muslim population, in excess of 1 billion people, and particularly those of countries in the Middle East. Muslims tend to pure their religious identity beyond all others - nationality, race, etc. 

The other thing I would add, which I hope is obvious, is that a government (or an individual) may well conceal their true motivation for following a policy. The notion that the Israelis would believe something as simplistic as religious people are good, particularly if you know anything about the history of Mohammed and Islam, suggests that you believe they have a childlike innocence.

'By way of deception though shalt do war', is Mossad's former motto. Israel's besieged mentality, could be argued to be beneficial in that it unifies their people and also gets them military aid from abroad. It also wins them sympathy and diverts attention away from their expansion into the West Bank and justifies their treatment of the Palestinian people. Furthermore, previous wars have led to territorial gains and there's no reason to suppose that future conflicts, like the one now, will not lead to them, for example, taking control of Gaza once again.

 

[antrin]

4 hours ago, W6er said:

I find it difficult to believe that the Israelis have ever seen Islam as 'good'.

I never said that Israelis saw Islam as ‘good’.

Read what I said again, please:  Israel…. “saw its (Hamas) leaders and activists as “religious”  thus “good” - and not militant like Fatah or PFLP.”

 

Much of what you then went on to say, simply reiterates what I’d written…

…but that shows you did get my message, which is ‘good’.  

 

[W6er]

2 hours ago, antrin said:

I never said that Israelis saw Islam as ‘good’.

Read what I said again, please:  Israel…. “saw its (Hamas) leaders and activists as “religious”  thus “good” - and not militant like Fatah or PFLP.”

 

Much of what you then went on to say, simply reiterates what I’d written…

…but that shows you did get my message, which is ‘good’.  

 

Forgive me, it was a 4 am insomnia post!

Even I don't know how I wrote this: 

Quote

Muslims tend to pure their religious identity beyond all others - nationality, race, etc. 

I think I meant 'put their religious identity...'

 

Anyway, Israel's a strange country. Although it is a Jewish state, it was also meant to be secular:

Quote

When he first proposed his ideas of political Zionism, Theodor Herzl was expecting the future Jewish state to be a secular state, in the style of central European countries of the time, such as Germany and Austria. However, Zionist and eventually Israeli politics were firmly coalition-based. When David Ben-Gurion became the first prime minister of Israel, although he was the head of the large Socialist party, he formed a government that included the religious Jewish parties, and took a moderate line in forming the relationship between the state and the religious institutions, at the same time continuing their status as state organs.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_Israel (emphasis my own)

Tel Aviv has the biggest Pride festival in the Middle East and is a very different place, culturally, to the growing ultra-orthodox communities in Israel. Given the Jewish people are an ethno-religious group, some of whom see Israel as a homeland for the Jews, rather than a religiously Jewish homeland, this might be expected. Then there are the various denominations of Judaism - from ultra-orthodox to liberal. The Law of Return - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return - also only requires that the individual has one Jewish grandparent!

From a religious perspective, Jews and Muslims have far more in common with one another than either do with Christianity!

This comparison makes very interesting reading (my emphasis, besides the titles):

 

Quote

Rules of conduct

The most obvious common practice is the statement of the absolute unity of God, which Muslims observe in their five times daily prayers (salat), and Jews state at least twice (Shema Yisrael), along with praying 3 times daily. The two faiths also share the central practices of fasting and almsgiving, as well as dietary laws and other aspects of ritual purity. Under the strict dietary laws, lawful food is called Kosher in Judaism and Halal in Islam. Both religions prohibit the consumption of pork. Halal restrictions are similar to a subset of the Kashrut dietary laws, so all kosher foods are considered halal, while not all halal foods are Kosher. Halal laws, for instance, do not prohibit the mixing of milk and meat or the consumption of shellfish, each of which are prohibited by the kosher laws, with the exception that in the Shia Islam belief shellfish, mussels, and similar sea foods and fish without scales are not considered halal.

Sacred texts of both religions ban homosexuality and forbid human sexual relations outside of marriage^[75] and necessitate abstinence during the wife's menstruation. Both Islam and Judaism practice circumcision of males.

Further information: Jewish observances and Five Pillars of Islam

Other similarities

Islam and Judaism both consider the Christian doctrine of the trinity and the belief of Jesus being God as explicitly against the tenets of monotheism. Idolatry and the worship of graven images is likewise forbidden in both religions. Both have official colors (Blue in Judaism and Green in Islam). Both faiths believe in angels, as servants of God and share a similar idea of demons (Jinn and Shedim); Jewish demonology mentions ha-Satan and Muslim demonology mentions Al-Shai'tan both rejecting him as an opponent of God. Many angels also possess similar names and roles in both Judaism and Islam. Neither religion subscribes to the concept of original sin and both religions traditionally view homosexuality as sinful. Narrative similarities between Jewish texts and the Hadith have also been noted. For example, both state that Potiphar's wife was named Zuleika.^[76]

There is a small bone in the body at the base of the spinal column called the Luz bone (known by differing traditions as either the coccyx or the seventh cervical vertebra) from which the body will be rebuilt at the time of resurrection, according to Muslims and Jews who share the belief that this bone does not decay.^{[citation needed]} Muslim books refer to this bone as "^Ajbu al-Thanab" (عَجْبُ الذَّنَب). Rabbi Joshua Ben Hananiah replied to Hadrian, as to how man revived in the world to come, "From Luz, in the back-bone".

The Islamic Hadith and Jewish Talmud have also often been compared as authoritative extracanonical texts that were originally oral transmissions for generations before being committed to writing.^[77][78][79]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic–Jewish_relations

Edited November 12, 2023 by W6er

[Jockmd]

On 11/11/2023 at 7:14 AM, Slarti said:

I'd assume that being as densely populated as London and having nearly half the population under 18 has something to do with it, too. Also, being a religiously motivated organisation, I would expect Hamas to have its fair share of young impressionable "boy soldiers".

Again, to be clear, both sides are total cunts in this.

What historical background made them become so?

[antrin]

1 hour ago, Jockmd said:

What historical background made them become so?

 I think that’s what Slarti may have been alluding to…

[Slarti]

What historical background made them become so?

How far do you want to go back?

[Jockmd]

47 minutes ago, Slarti said:

3 hours ago, Jockmd said:

What historical background made them become so?

How far do you want to go back?

Ach...what about 1896?

[ALBIONSAINT]

1 hour ago, Slarti said:

4 hours ago, Jockmd said:

What historical background made them become so?

How far do you want to go back?

 

[Slarti]

 

1. Moses didn't exist (even the Jews know that).

2. Apparently, it was the Sea of Reeds they crossed not the Red Sea. The translators hadn't heard of the Sea of Reeds and, in their "wisdom", thought it must be the Red Sea, even though the 2 Hebrew words were totally different.

3. No matter how strong a wind is, it couldn't part through Red Sea.

[ALBIONSAINT]

19 minutes ago, Slarti said:

1. Moses didn't exist (even the Jews know that).

2. Apparently, it was the Sea of Reeds they crossed not the Red Sea. The translators hadn't heard of the Sea of Reeds and, in their "wisdom", thought it must be the Red Sea, even though the 2 Hebrew words were totally different.

3. No matter how strong a wind is, it couldn't part through Red Sea.

I was being facetious (when Moses was a boy)  It’s obviously allegory. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by ALBIONSAINT
Spelling error

[Slarti]

I was being facetious (when Moses was a boy)  It’s obviously allegory. 

I know you were.

Just thought I'd be obnoxious. [emoji16]

[W6er]

Interesting: 

 

 

 

 

[W6er]

 

 

🤣

[Jockmd]