stlucifer Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 16 hours ago, Jockmd said: The explosive power of Hamas rockets doesn't come anywhere near the power to destroy a whole hospital. Clearly it was Israel. Apparently Israel officials were quick, (maybe a little too Quick?), to blame yet another militant group. Now Bidon has, just as quickly, come out in defence of the Israelis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Optimistic Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 21 hours ago, DougJamie said: So the Israeli terriorists kill 500 targeting a hospital.. wonder if Biden will slap their wrists Can you supply us with evidence to back up this comment? Please share it with us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 33 minutes ago, Mr Optimistic said: Can you supply us with evidence to back up this comment? Please share it with us all. Having seen and read about this I'm still to be convinced this was an Israeli missile. Might become clearer over the next day or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted October 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Mr Optimistic said: Can you supply us with evidence to back up this comment? Please share it with us all. You want to supply evidence it wasnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Optimistic Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 hour ago, DougJamie said: You want to supply evidence it wasnt Thought not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W6er Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) On 10/17/2023 at 8:19 PM, DougJamie said: But the west thinks it ok.. one rule and all that... need that Israeli dictator taken out ...along with Hamas 22 hours ago, stlucifer said: IF this latest atrocity is laid at Israel's door the world's leaders who have been vindicating their offensive MUST class this as a war crime. 20 hours ago, Jockmd said: The explosive power of Hamas rockets doesn't come anywhere near the power to destroy a whole hospital. Clearly it was Israel. The power of the Zionist lobby is formidable. It will not be condemned...or at the most expect a mealy-mouthed condemnation. Edited October 18, 2023 by W6er Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W6er Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 2 hours ago, DougJamie said: You want to supply evidence it wasnt To be fair the burden always falls on the one who asserts something. Perhaps I am prejudiced, but I think logically it is unlikely to be Hamas. It is possible there was an arms dump within the hospital, at least a Zionist shill friend of mine is claiming that. It accords with his assertion, as of yet unsubstantiated by actual objective evidence, that Hamas hide out in schools and hospitals and use children and the sick as human shields. I cannot believe that Hamas have anything as sophisticated as a missile defence system, which would be another explanation. I think the Israelis simply want to ethnically cleanse Gaza and are intent on making life insufferable for those who live there. They have loads of illegal settlements in the West Bank and will gradually usurp the Palestinians there, however Gaza is a problem for them and it appears their solution is to simply make it barely habitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 Latest obfuscation is that it was a Palestinian group firing rockets towards Israel. From West of the hospital. one malfunctioned and fell in the hospital, deaths caused not so much by the blast as the mass of unspent rocket fuel. bbc are going with that. It would be good to have something less invested in the politics, like Bellingcat, doing the investigation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Optimistic Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 22 hours ago, Jockmd said: The explosive power of Hamas rockets doesn't come anywhere near the power to destroy a whole hospital. Clearly it was Israel. More unfounded pish just like DougJamie. There are not many facts, though some are starting to emerge, so NOTHING is clear. What we do know though is that 'a whole hospital' was not destroyed so that blows your point out the water. Another fact is that sadly many innocent people lost their lives in the most awful way. Speculation, predjudice and pure guess work doesn't get to the truth. So I'll ask you the same question I asked DougJamie. Give us the evidence that it was 'clearly Israel' He couldn't and I won't hold my breath for your answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W6er Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 14 minutes ago, antrin said: Latest obfuscation is that it was a Palestinian group firing rockets towards Israel. From West of the hospital. one malfunctioned and fell in the hospital, deaths caused not so much by the blast as the mass of unspent rocket fuel. bbc are going with that. It would be good to have something less invested in the politics, like Bellingcat, doing the investigation I'm not sure that the explanation is wholly unfeasible, however if this had happened in Ukraine I'm not sure the BBC would be so willing to accept that explanation from Russia. At the risk of sounding like an apologist for Putin, I think it's quite interesting that in that conflict the OHCHR reports the casualties from the start of the conflict, in February 2022, until 10 September 2023 thus: Quote recorded 27,149 civilian casualties in the country: 9,614 killed and 17,535 injured. Source: https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2023/09/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-11-september-2023 Remember that's on both sides! Imagine how many casualties there would have been had Russia acted as belligerently as Israel is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jockmd Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mr Optimistic said: More unfounded pish just like DougJamie. There are not many facts, though some are starting to emerge, so NOTHING is clear. What we do know though is that 'a whole hospital' was not destroyed so that blows your point out the water. Another fact is that sadly many innocent people lost their lives in the most awful way. Speculation, predjudice and pure guess work doesn't get to the truth. So I'll ask you the same question I asked DougJamie. Give us the evidence that it was 'clearly Israel' He couldn't and I won't hold my breath for your answer. My post was presented when the news media reported that the hospital had been bombed. Israel said that the PIJ rocket had exploded in the air then fell on the hospital. Or, was fired onto the hospital. Firstly, PIJ or Hamas rockets do NOT have the technology to be guided. When they are fired they are pointed in the general direction. Secondly, what are the chances of falling on to the hospital after the explosion in the air? Thirdly, the intensity of the explosion is way higher than anything that has fallen in Israel. Fourthly, this denial by Israel is going along the same path as their denial of murdering the American/Palestinian journalist Shireen Abu Akleh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W6er Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 To be honest, I'm surprised how anybody can defend Israel. I was just looking for a book I had, but think I must have given it to charity, anyway I have found what I wanted online. Read the middle paragraph of the dust jacket: Israel apologists always tell me something like he "probably invented it to make money", but if this was a former Russian military man the press would have had a field day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jockmd Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 8 hours ago, W6er said: To be honest, I'm surprised how anybody can defend Israel. I was just looking for a book I had, but think I must have given it to charity, anyway I have found what I wanted online. Read the middle paragraph of the dust jacket: Israel apologists always tell me something like he "probably invented it to make money", but if this was a former Russian military man the press would have had a field day. The Israeli filmmaker, Yotam Feldman , produced the documentary, The Lab which shows how the Israeli weapons industry used Gaza to test new weapons... https://www.bitchute.com/video/KRIEsPpCxlbe/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 Just seen a report (I've watched it twice)that strongly suggests this WASN'T an Israeli missile. The damage and resulting ground/building damage don't match the profile of an israeli strike. The truth requires an independent investigation, very hard in an active war zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Optimistic Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 9 hours ago, Jockmd said: My post was presented when the news media reported that the hospital had been bombed. Israel said that the PIJ rocket had exploded in the air then fell on the hospital. Or, was fired onto the hospital. Firstly, PIJ or Hamas rockets do NOT have the technology to be guided. When they are fired they are pointed in the general direction. Secondly, what are the chances of falling on to the hospital after the explosion in the air? Thirdly, the intensity of the explosion is way higher than anything that has fallen in Israel. Fourthly, this denial by Israel is going along the same path as their denial of murdering the American/Palestinian journalist Shireen Abu Akleh. So like DougJamie you don't provide ONE bit of evidence that it was 'clearly' Israel. Instead you give us more nonsense. Firstly no one is saying it was a guided missile. Secondly- the same chances as falling near or on any building Thirdly- the size of the crater suggests the opposite as does the fact that the main damage seems to have been from the fireball Fourthly- that does not prove Israel 'clearly' bombed a hospital. So I will ask again. What evidence do you have that this atrocity was the work of Israel? Be honest your opinion wasn't based on facts was it? World news agencies with people on the ground and huge resources can't be sure ( though evidence is still coming out) but you know it was 'clearly' Israel from your keyboard in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, Mr Optimistic said: So like DougJamie you don't provide ONE bit of evidence that it was 'clearly' Israel. Instead you give us more nonsense. Firstly no one is saying it was a guided missile. Secondly- the same chances as falling near or on any building Thirdly- the size of the crater suggests the opposite as does the fact that the main damage seems to have been from the fireball Fourthly- that does not prove Israel 'clearly' bombed a hospital. So I will ask again. What evidence do you have that this atrocity was the work of Israel? Be honest your opinion wasn't based on facts was it? World news agencies with people on the ground and huge resources can't be sure ( though evidence is still coming out) but you know it was 'clearly' Israel from your keyboard in Scotland. Aye, people WANT to believe anything to back up which side they support in this utter disaster. I'm firmly in the "both Hamas and the Israeli politicians/armed forces are not giving one feck about the civilians on both sides" boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W6er Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 How subservient. I still think Jeremy Corbyn was attacked so viciously by the media because he wasn't wholly committed to supporting Israel. Rumours are that if a ground offensive starts, Iran and Hezbollah will attack Israel. This could escalate quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 Referring to other humans as "scum" was enough to get the singing section a ban several years ago - and that was a light hearted joke about folk fae Greenock In this far more serious context - I'd suggest changing the thread title or deleting this thread. A bit embarrassing to have on a St Mirren forum Hitler de-humanised the Jews using similar language Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Optimistic Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Doakes said: Referring to other humans as "scum" was enough to get the singing section a ban several years ago - and that was a light hearted joke about folk fae Greenock In this far more serious context - I'd suggest changing the thread title or deleting this thread. A bit embarrassing to have on a St Mirren forum Hitler de-humanised the Jews using similar language When you read the topic headline you knew what was coming wasn't going to be fair or balanced. You'll notice that him and Jockmd have not managed to come up with a shread of evidence to back up their words. Away from whose side you are on you can't allow your prejudice to blame Israel on an atrocity without any facts at all. Embarrassed for them both. But hey this forum isn't known for its balanced, intelligent debate on anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 33 minutes ago, Mr Optimistic said: Embarrassed for them both. But hey this forum isn't known for its balanced, intelligent debate on anything. While, overall, i agree with your recent interest in the forum you might want to remind yourself it's a football forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W6er Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Doakes said: Referring to other humans as "scum" was enough to get the singing section a ban several years ago - and that was a light hearted joke about folk fae Greenock In this far more serious context - I'd suggest changing the thread title or deleting this thread. A bit embarrassing to have on a St Mirren forum Hitler de-humanised the Jews using similar language But the 'cnuts' is alright? No, I agree with you. Both thread titles on this conflict are not great. I appreciate people have strong opinions on this topic, but there's no need for invective. We should be able to debate the issues like adults. A lot of people seem to be choosing a side to support based on their political affiliation. Those on the 'right' support Israel and those on the 'left', Palestine. It's quite interesting to see. Edited October 19, 2023 by W6er Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Optimistic Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, faraway saint said: While, overall, i agree with your recent interest in the forum you might want to remind yourself it's a football forum. This stopped being a football forum a long long time ago when a few trolls took it over and spoiled it for everyone. 😉 But thanks for your advice. Don't know what people on this forum would do without your 63,000 posts of wisdom?😉 Edited October 19, 2023 by Mr Optimistic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, Mr Optimistic said: This stopped being a football forum a long long time ago when a few trolls took it over and spoiled it for everyone. 😉 But thanks for your advice. Don't know what people on this forum would do without your 63,000 posts of wisdom?😉 Maybe start your own forum where everything suits your point of view? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Optimistic Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Maybe start your own forum where everything suits your point of view? Or stay on this one where EVERY thread becomes about you, an attention seeking sad troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 57 minutes ago, Mr Optimistic said: When you read the topic headline you knew what was coming wasn't going to be fair or balanced. You'll notice that him and Jockmd have not managed to come up with a shread of evidence to back up their words. Away from whose side you are on you can't allow your prejudice to blame Israel on an atrocity without any facts at all. Embarrassed for them both. But hey this forum isn't known for its balanced, intelligent debate on anything. I just think a St Mirren forum allowing thread title references to "Israeli scum" or "Hamas/Palestinian scum" is an extremely bad look on the club and its supporters It's something you would expect to see on either side of the OF, but not on here Regardless of political leanings or which side you believe is in the right/wrong - it's all a bit horrible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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