The Original 59er

Being in the 2nd tier as opposed to top tier will have financial implications for the club, no argument. Yes a parachute payment will be made, but it will obviously affect TV money, share of financial payments at the end of the season and less lucrative advertising opportunities. The Board need to decide soon, are they going to abandon all hope of a sale and re-commit to the job or are they going to continue to drift and as a consequence affect the moral, well-being and commitment required to see us rise again? All businesses make corporate decisions that are bad. This Board has made several recently that suggest their mind isn't on the job and as a result the business is suffering. Their investment is also suffering and that is exactly what happens in any business if you take your eye off the ball. Their aspirations for a return on their 'investment' in the club is now being seriously eroded and they either cut their losses, or re-commit. Either way I don't mind, but please make a decision soon or the club will drift as long as this indecision continues.

The general description of a team that is outside of the large cities, ie Edinburgh and Glasgow would probably fall into the general categorisation of "provincial clubs". As you are well aware the description will tend to be ascribed to teams that most likely don't have a large following and are also outside of the main support centres. I certainly wouldn't call Barcelona or Bayern Munich provincial, but I would Elche, Paderborn or Augsburg. You know fine what is meant by 'Provincial', stop playing with words and accept that as a club we fall into the category of at least a second, if not third tier of the pecking order in Scottish football and as such you could almost argue that we have been punching above our weight for the last few years....................... but hey that what makes us St Mirren supporters rather than the green or blue bigots!

DougJamie, on 10 Apr 2015 - 14:30, said: Sorry have to disagree with you. Yes there are quite a number who have a similar opinion to the article, but it doesn't make them nodding dogs. I have been consistent in my criticism of the Board for some time, it just so happens that the article articulates it better than most posters have on this forum. Danny Lennon ran out of ideas. He made a number of failures in terms of signings and also his tactics were predictable to the point that teams could come to Paisley, pressure us and walk away with 3 points. His departure was on the cards for some time, and whilst almost everyone said he held his head high with dignity they way it was handled, ultimately his record spoke for itself............ he never moved the side on. We have a record of getting rid of Managers, even after they win us cups! The teams you mention are also provincial teams, but they are, or at least the majority of them are staying in the SPL this year. Their budget is similar, their record on signings is much better and they haven't a Board that has wanted out for something like 4 to 5 years. The problem at Saints is at the top and the sickness that is the apathy at the top, has permeated all the way down to the team, who basically aren't good enough, even if they wanted to 'Play for the jerseys'. Sorry, I think you are wrong.

" the chance of Rankers getting pumped tonight"................................................... at least you got one of your wishes coming true!

The article hits the nail on the head. The Board has to take full responsibility for the mess we are in and yes you may say the journalist has peeked into this website to get a flavour of fan resentment, but what he has said is spot on and needs to be said in the public arena. I'm on record as saying the Tesco deal was great, it was also lucky and in the great property dealings that are done, in its heyday supermarket deals weren't the most difficult deals to do, especially if Tesco (who were conspicuously absent from the town) wanted in. The deal however, which was helped through by the Council, did save the club and has given the enterprise a stable platform. However I totally agree with other posters that Chick Young's sycophantic praising of the Board and their actions is nothing short of very poor journalism and populist crap into the bargain. Before he spouts off, he should read and digest Tom English's article. So my next question: How do we get rid of this Board especially if no-one on this site believes for one second that £1.5m is the correct value?

77 pages of ultimately............................................................................. nothing! Let's wait another 5 years of uncertainty, lack of investment and no commitment as we wait for another saviour to appear............................ I'll not hold my breath

The ultimate irony was served up yesterday................ Cajoled, encouraged, pleaded with and encouraged to spend our well earned cash by Stuart Gilmour to make the effort to go and support the team in the hour of need in Motherwell. So we go, we watch in awe as one team wants to win it and the other goes through the motions of making up the numbers for 90 minutes. I say "irony" as it can't escape Mr Gilmour's attention that the state of the club, the team and the position we are in, are probably 90% down to the lack of vision, commitment, investment and direction from the top that is required by any organisation if the company / team / staff are to be encouraged to win, fight for their job, and succeed. Firm management with a goal in sight is what is needed in any organisation and we have lacked this for something like four to fiveyears. The BoD's have sought an exit ever since the Tesco deal, but they have found that the price they thought their time and investment was worth was not what others believed it was worth, so they have hung on to some long term hope that someone from somewhere will come out of the closet and pay them an amount that they think their share ownership entitles them to. There is a direct analogy with building a house. You can spend no end of money in making that house great looking, work perfectly and appear to be the perfect residency...................... but cost and value have little or no direct link. So you can spend £1m in building a house in say Greenock, but it might only be worth only £300k. That in effect is what the BoD's have, an asset that they think they have built that is worth X amount and the rest of the world believing it is probably worth at least 1/3rd of that amount. I had never thought that I would argue for change the way I now feel. There is a way to force the Board but I'm not yet inclined to push for that option, but unless they commit to a vision they will see less and less commitment from the fans and the players as time dwindles by. I'm very sad today..................... we're going down with a whimper and a distinct lack of direction

Forget about 10000 hours or the past, what about the future? What would it take to try and get say 10 sensible true supporters of the club together who have the mental capacity to think sensibly, (I am being serious in my post!!), not have self interest to the fore and to have enough business nous, to get together and see if there is any kind of framework that can be structured that can be taken to the BoD's with a sensible business plan. Until that appears, nothing will emerge............ no savior will come out of the ether and no investor with money will see us as a viable proposition! The Board want money to allow them to exit. Whatever vehicle comes their way and offers a realistic way out, they will look at it and as far as I can see that may well be a fan based initiative, but one that has a viable, sensible business plan behind it from day one.

In 1966 / 67 - a similarly bad year for us as we were relegated - being 2nd bottom of the league, we went to Darkheid and drew with the impending European Champions 1-1. I recall we were being beaten by just about everyone, Celtic too were sweeping most aside in the league, and at the same time we had already been beaten by Celtic 8-2 in the League Cup earlier in August, but to everyone's amazement we went and stole a point from them. That Celtic team was stacked full of the same side that went on to win the European Cup in 1967. So it can be done................ believe!

Why is "only 20" a reason why they couldn't play a representative game for their country. There are many in other countries who do get a game at 20 and maybe that's half of Scotland's problem they don't bring the players into the fold young enough, or they only do if they played for the old Firm.

Denis Connaghan Jackie Copland Gordon McQueen Tommy Bryceland Jim Clunie Archie Gemmel Willie Renton Jim Blair Campbell Money Billy Stark To name a few as a blast from the past, who should have had some international recognition at least in a Saint's jersey.

I agree that we can pull ourselves out of the mire, BUT and it is a big but, we need to do it by ourselves and not be depending on others to do the work for us. It has been pointed out that we have finished 2nd bottom at least 4 times,................. I agree the odds are that if we had been faced with a play off in each of these 4 occasions with the 2nd top team from the league below, we would have been relegated at least once. It's never been an easy ride being a Saint's supporter, many lows, many drifting seasons and a very few occasional highs. I do place a lot of the blame on the BoD's. I have been a supporter for many seasons of SG's stance at Saints. He is a supporter of the team. He oversaw a period of possible financial Armageddon and pulled a fast one out of the hat with the Tesco deal, but that goodwill is drying up fast and the tight financial apron strings mean that we won't borrow or get into debt to increase the playing staff. I now accept that we are likely to go down. Even if we pull off the trick of finishing 2nd bottom, facing Hibs or our bigoted Govan neighbours doesn't fill me with a lot of optimism. As for history, yes we can win some games when down a division and yes we can build a team that is attractive to watch and maybe bounce back up, but that historically is the way we are and nothing in this world will change that. We delude ourselves that we can challenge regularly in the top 6. We don't and haven't for as long as I've supported the team.......................... and that's a long time! Why do ICT or St Johnstone manage it? Well maybe because they have had a better Board, or a better understanding of what it takes to work on a shoestring and make that shoestring go as far as it can. Certainly our Board have burnt money with useless players, bad decisions on Managers (who then get a settlement) and made little or no attempt to engender enthusiasm with the Paisley public. So on the one hand I congratulate them, but on the other I harbor a grudge because they show little talent to take the club on. In other words they were bloody lucky with the Tesco deal and beyond that, whilst they have overseen a new ground and a training facility, what else have they done? The Tesco deal wasn't rocket science and the ground is ok, but not brilliant. When you go for an interview for a job, what is one of the qualities that the owner wants to see in the applicant............. ambition! That's what our Board lack and if they ever went for an interview, I bet they wouldn't get the job. So would we be better off being relegated..................... no! I'd rather scrap at the bottom of the Premier League than be a possible also-ran in the Championship. Do I want change.................. Yes and the sooner the better!

An awful lot of name calling on a post about....................."Relegation Beckons" ??????????? Sorry I won't succumb to mediocre mud slinging at fellow posters and try and concentrate on the subject! A lot of posters here haven't had the dubious pleasure of watching a crap team trying to play with black & white stripes as a shirt. Sadly I have and it can be a very painful experience. Some of the relegation teams were terrible, I don't put this team in that category, but they are where they are because of an extremely bad start to the season which then went from bad to worse as we stuck with the same tactics and personnel. However, and I do add that word intentionally, we haven't been getting humped 5, 6 or 7 nil which was a regular occurrence in several of our previous relegation tussles. A lot of our defeats have been by the odd goal and if we had a couple of players (that we have now) who can create and maybe find the net, then these narrow losses may have been avoided with at least a point and maybe 3. I haven't given up hope, but the Board do need to put their collective heads on the block if the facts are true that they want to sell and only potentially see a sale if the club are in the Premier League!

Best Lamp "post" on the forum for years.............. brightened up my morning no end. Here was me thinking the dark days of TC's reign were over and that there was light at the end of the proverbial............... not so sure now. I have it on good authority it was taken out by Goody's late tackle, neither the ref nor the polis saw it, so they are relying on video evidence to pursue the culprit. Jim's keeping a low profile, a bit like the lamp post.

I think he was often played out of position and had competition for the position that suited him best. I agree I liked him, but would also agree he could be frustrating.

By the way Oakey, where in the good English language does it say you shouldn't swear, or that if you do swear, you need anger management? Swearing has been a major part of the English language for centuries, as has blaspheming.................. so has every person who swears or has blasphemed, been in need of your perceived remedy of some "anger management"................... what a load of tosh.

oaksoft, on 02 Mar 2015 - 18:31, said: Oakey....................... stop taking the piss!

putt that in your pipe and smoke it

I think the majority of buddie fans have been driven to the odd sweary word, especially over the past three or four seasons. It comes more as a sudden outburst from some cringingly terrible play or anticipated play by the defence............. e.g. for f**k's sake get rid of the ball and don't pass it back across the field with another hospital pass (or something along these lines). My main fear is that the stewards, or whoever is instructing them don't know where or when to draw the line. What is the difference to me swearing with a one word outburst ("for f**k's sake") or alternatively saying "for Christ's sake Cheesy that was flipin awful"! ..... or "in the name of God boot it to hell"! In these outbursts I am blaspheming................. so is that allowed, or is someone going to take offence? Mentioned in another post, you can move if the person behind you is really offending and in so moving you may wish to inform a steward that there are really offensive things being said and that they should investigate. However football is a place where you can get frustrated, so don't go if you have sensitive ears!

It's no coincidence that we kept a clean sheet!

No doubt you've checked this out: http://www.thenationalfootballcollection.org.uk/1926-scottish-fa-cup-winners-medal/

You might say I'm a happy clapper!

Would be hellish for the hemorrhoids though!

Now there's a thought, could we kill the two birds with one stone....................... a form of monotone netting that makes the area behind the goal just like a flat screen, but the punters behind the screen could still see through it and actually experience some joy in seeing their heroes finding the net!

Pod, absolutely correct, but if the BoD's jumped ship and left it without extracting, what they think they are due and accept that sometimes you have to cut your losses, then I would hope that a consortium of bright enough people with the Club at their heart would step up to the plate. You may say that is cloud cuckoo land but if you don't believe that someone is prepared to take on an (at present) Premier League Club in Scotland on that basis, what chance has anyone got in Scotland of surviving. I have to believe in the concept that better times are around the corner for Scottish football, as opposed to saying it's all doom and gloom and that "we are all doomed I say"! The corner might be a little bit further away than we might want to believe, but if you look at the club structure now as opposed to 10 or 15 years ago the clubs are now bringing more grass roots talent through and are importing less players than we did in the past (thanks partly to the demise of the Govan mob). That surely must lead to more and better players getting to the Scottish International team and whilst I worry that the immense and immoral amounts of money that is thrown at the English Premiership is eventually going to filter down to the Conference level and probably allow them to pay more to their players than we do in Scotland, it doesn't mean that Scottish football is doomed. Sad fact but true...................... Scotland needs at least three to four strong clubs to make the league competitive and also to attract more TV money. Saints aren't going to be one of these four, we never have and never will compete financially with the two Glasgow giants, Aberdeen or Hearts. That's not to say we can't compete on the park with them occasionally and win cups, but Saints won't be the catalyst to TV investment in the Scottish game. So, to get back to your point, yes I think we could find a group of intelligent, well-meaning, financially sound individuals who don't want to rip the heart or assets out of the club and are willing to invest the time to keep us in the upper echelon..................... come to think of it, isn't that what we currently have?