The Referendum Thread

[Stuart Dickson]

And has an ending which many of us on here have been saying for long enough, now.

Rubbish. The claim from the Natsis has always been the UK is going down the toilet so bail out for a fairer life where we're all richer. Now your claiming you've been saying there's going to be a heavy price to pay for Independence bit it won't be as bad as the no camp are making out. I think it's time the Yes Campaign spelt out just how much extra independence will cost us all.

[groucho]

And it's a yes from Max Keiser .

http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/156804-episode-597-max-keiser/

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I used to try quoting his posts, taking them apart and proving he was talking shite through reason and debate. You cant however have a debate with someone who doesnt reason - all you get is more nonsense like that last post where he makes up statements and presents them as "facts" .

[salmonbuddie]

I know, he's just told me I'm

talking rubbish just after trying to rubbish the post I made exactly that point in.

[salmonbuddie]

And another.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27291668

Did you click on the link in my post you've quoted, mate? It might be familiar......

[FTOF]

Did you click on the link in my post you've quoted, mate? It might be familiar......

I thought it was a link to the Tesco story.

Now that you mention it, the link does look familiar.

[Stuart Dickson]

Its just the usual from you, when you get found out lying, its head in the sand for a while then try another smear approach.

So you can't defend him. Fair enough

[BoWSaint]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/uk-mp-state-pensions-would-be-paid-after-yes-vote-1-3400799

UK state pensions will be paid regardless of how the vote goes.

[Stuart Dickson]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/uk-mp-state-pensions-would-be-paid-after-yes-vote-1-3400799

UK state pensions will be paid regardless of how the vote goes.

UK state pensions come from income tax, not NI. Reading the article leaves me wondering if, with the reference to NI, they weren't discussing SERPS (state earnings related pension scheme) which does come from your NI contribution. Speculation on my part but I suspect this may just be poor journalism followed by Swinney attempting to muddy waters.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Lol, the quotes and video are all out there in tinterwebworld. It is official record of Westminster committee, even arch unionist Glasgow mp "bayonet the wounded" Davidson acknowledged it when seeking clarification.

In addition dept of work & pensions have been sending out a standard response to anyone who contacts them confirming pensions still paid to scots after independence.

Must do better with the smears...

[Stuart Dickson]

Lol, the quotes and video are all out there in tinterwebworld. It is official record of Westminster committee, even arch unionist Glasgow mp "bayonet the wounded" Davidson acknowledged it when seeking clarification.

In addition dept of work & pensions have been sending out a standard response to anyone who contacts them confirming pensions still paid to scots after independence.

Must do better with the smears...

Yeah but in the video and in the quotes Mr Webb refers to "accruing benefits" throughout working life. You don't do this with the State Pension. That's a universal benefit paid to anyone over the age of 65 in the UK currently. The only part of your pension, paid for through your NI contributions and accrued as a benefit throughout your working life is SERPS.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Sigh...

The uk PENSIONS minister has confirmed that those who have accumutated rights to a UK state PENSION , will receive their PENSION from the age the uk gov pays it, currently 65 for males and 61 for females.

[Stuart Dickson]

Sigh...

The uk PENSIONS minister has confirmed that those who have accumutated rights to a UK state PENSION , will receive their PENSION from the age the uk gov pays it, currently 65 for males and 61 for females.

Did he say all that? I'd like evidence of that. I'd also like to understand why the newspapers didn't pick up on the fact that they reduced the age of retirement for women by 2 years? Very confusing.

ETA I also saw the video of the bit being quoted by pro Yes websites which is 1 minute and 7 seconds long with Iain Davidson doing much of the talking. When you watch the longer version it becomes a bit more clear in to which the context of this statement was being made. They were talking about Alex Salmonds pledge to reduce pension ages in Scotland because we die younger - and the response was basically them saying that if Alex Salmond wished to reduce pension ages then an Independent Scotland would have to fund that in it's entirety and that they couldn't change the pension age and expect someone else to fund it.

The Natsi's as usual have sought to claim something from a statement which was never clear - to the extent that Iain Davidson had to seek clarification - out of context and then sought to use it to confirm their stance on pensions. Goebbels Salmond in action yet again...

Edited May 8, 2014 by Stuart Dickson

[Stuart Dickson]

Dear oh dear, the NHS isn't safe with the SNP even with plenty of funding thanks to the Union. Imagine how f**ked it will be if Scots take leave of their senses and vote Yes in September.

The UK government target for A&E is 98% of all patients being seen within 4 hours of arriving at hospital. In Scotland the Scottish Government found that Scottish Hospitals were all failing so they reduced that target to 95% of all patients. It transpires today that only Tayside is meeting that reduced target and that Glasgow and Lanarkshire in particular are failing badly yet Alex Neil turned up at Wishaw General today to boast that they've managed to improve services since January by 0.5% from 93.5% in December 2013 to 94% today.

Since the last Scottish Election in 2008 the number of patients left waiting for more than 4 hours in A&E has gone from 36,000 to 104,000.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27314835

Maybe we're seeing the true cost of the SNP policy of making NHS car parking free of charge - even for consultants and surgeons who earn more than £100k per annum - and of free prescriptions for those who can easily afford to pay.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Dear oh dear, the NHS isn't safe with the SNP even with plenty of funding thanks to the Union. Imagine how f**ked it will be if Scots take leave of their senses and vote Yes in September.

The UK government target for A&E is 98% of all patients being seen within 4 hours of arriving at hospital. In Scotland the Scottish Government found that Scottish Hospitals were all failing so they reduced that target to 95% of all patients. It transpires today that only Tayside is meeting that reduced target and that Glasgow and Lanarkshire in particular are failing badly yet Alex Neil turned up at Wishaw General today to boast that they've managed to improve services since January by 0.5% from 93.5% in December 2013 to 94% today.

Since the last Scottish Election in 2008 the number of patients left waiting for more than 4 hours in A&E has gone from 36,000 to 104,000.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27314835

Maybe we're seeing the true cost of the SNP policy of making NHS car parking free of charge - even for consultants and surgeons who earn more than £100k per annum - and of free prescriptions for those who can easily afford to pay.

I got seen within 10min not so long ago. Don't believe everything you read Stuart look how many times you have been wrong on this thread only to come back with more nonsenses !

[Stuart Dickson]

I got seen within 10min not so long ago. Don't believe everything you read Stuart look how many times you have been wrong on this thread only to come back with more nonsenses !

I've not been wrong yet. All that's happened is I've posted facts, Cockles calls me a liar without producing any facts to back his case, a few others concur with him and you think I'm beat. It's nonsense - just as most of the Yes Campaign is nonsense. Smoke and mirrors.

[smcc]

Dear oh dear, the NHS isn't safe with the SNP even with plenty of funding thanks to the Union. Imagine how f**ked it will be if Scots take leave of their senses and vote Yes in September.

The UK government target for A&E is 98% of all patients being seen within 4 hours of arriving at hospital. In Scotland the Scottish Government found that Scottish Hospitals were all failing so they reduced that target to 95% of all patients. It transpires today that only Tayside is meeting that reduced target and that Glasgow and Lanarkshire in particular are failing badly yet Alex Neil turned up at Wishaw General today to boast that they've managed to improve services since January by 0.5% from 93.5% in December 2013 to 94% today.

Since the last Scottish Election in 2008 the number of patients left waiting for more than 4 hours in A&E has gone from 36,000 to 104,000.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27314835

Maybe we're seeing the true cost of the SNP policy of making NHS car parking free of charge - even for consultants and surgeons who earn more than £100k per annum - and of free prescriptions for those who can easily afford to pay.

Now let me first of all say that i think that for anyone to wait over 4 hours to be seen is to long.

But seeing as dicko's trying to make a political point i feel it only right to show the figure for the same time scale for NHS England, 92.8%

Unfortunately the number of people turning up at A&E departments with trivial complaints which could be dealt by themselves, by a pharmacist, a practice nurse or a GP has sky-rocketed because people have lost all common sense and expect to have instant medical attention for the slightest complaint. It is an unfortunate result of the "I must have the answer immediately" culture in which we now live. For many of these it would not matter whether they were seen within 4 hours or 4 weeks. One answer to this problem would be for people who turn up at A&E as the result of neither an accident nor an emergency to be directed to a more appropriate source of advice/treatment. It is also true that a large proportion of patients presenting at A&E are elderly and suffering from muliple pathology, many with dementia.

When I was in practice it was not unusual to get a letter from A&E about patients who claimed they had been unable to get a GP appointment when we knew for a fact that they had not tried to contact the surgery.

Finally, the target is not for patients to be seen within 4 hours of arriving at A&E but for them to have been seen and discharged or admitted to a ward within 4 hours: investigations naturally take time. Some of the delays are due to there being no spare beds in the hospital, a direct result of the reduction on hospital beds which has occurred over the past 20 years.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

So lets clarify that one more time -

The uk PENSIONS Minister (who is a Unionist) has stated that PENSIONS will still be paid to Scots in the event of Independence.

Ian Davidson MP, is the chair of the Scottish Select Committee at westminster. He is also stauchly defending the union to the extend that he would support clyde shipworkers (his constituents) losing contracts if Scotland (his country) democratically voted for Independence.

Davidson asked for clarification regarding PENSIONS. Uk Minister clarified that PENSIONS will be honoured.

So a uk minister and a scottish labour MP (both unionists) have a minuted and filmed conversation in a parliamentary committee detailing that PENSIONS will continue to be paid to Scots who have a right to them post Independence. It also clarifies that IF Scotland lowers the age that PENSIONS are paid then we would need to fund this ourselves (no surprise to me).

This is a clear statement of CLARITY and entirely in CONTEXT. It is also consistent with what DWP will tell you if you write to them and ask about your state PENSION.

Unfortunately it flies in the face of everything that darling, alexander and project fear have been telling us for over a year. Those fearmongering billboard adds with the 2 pensioners were a waste of BT money

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Unfortunately the number of people turning up at A&E departments with trivial complaints which could be dealt by themselves, by a pharmacist, a practice nurse or a GP has sky-rocketed because people have lost all common sense and expect to have instant medical attention for the slightest complaint. It is an unfortunate result of the "I must have the answer immediately" culture in which we now live. For many of these it would not matter whether they were seen within 4 hours or 4 weeks. One answer to this problem would be for people who turn up at A&E as the result of neither an accident nor an emergency to be directed to a more appropriate source of advice/treatment. It is also true that a large proportion of patients presenting at A&E are elderly and suffering from muliple pathology, many with dementia.

When I was in practice it was not unusual to get a letter from A&E about patients who claimed they had been unable to get a GP appointment when we knew for a fact that they had not tried to contact the surgery.

Finally, the target is not for patients to be seen within 4 hours of arriving at A&E but for them to have been seen and discharged or admitted to a ward within 4 hours: investigations naturally take time. Some of the delays are due to there being no spare beds in the hospital, a direct result of the reduction on hospital beds which has occurred over the past 20 years.

Agree smcc

this might be why they are now calling them Emergency Departments as opposed to A&E or Casualty.

The number of people being referred there from GP out of hours service and NHS 24 is also far too high. The system needs to be streamlined to ensure that you go to minor injuries depts not Emergency Dept unless its an ...er emergency.

[Stuart Dickson]

So lets clarify that one more time -

The uk PENSIONS Minister (who is a Unionist) has stated that PENSIONS will still be paid to Scots in the event of Independence.

Ian Davidson MP, is the chair of the Scottish Select Committee at westminster. He is also stauchly defending the union to the extend that he would support clyde shipworkers (his constituents) losing contracts if Scotland (his country) democratically voted for Independence.

Davidson asked for clarification regarding PENSIONS. Uk Minister clarified that PENSIONS will be honoured.

So a uk minister and a scottish labour MP (both unionists) have a minuted and filmed conversation in a parliamentary committee detailing that PENSIONS will continue to be paid to Scots who have a right to them post Independence. It also clarifies that IF Scotland lowers the age that PENSIONS are paid then we would need to fund this ourselves (no surprise to me).

This is a clear statement of CLARITY and entirely in CONTEXT. It is also consistent with what DWP will tell you if you write to them and ask about your state PENSION.

Unfortunately it flies in the face of everything that darling, alexander and project fear have been telling us for over a year. Those fearmongering billboard adds with the 2 pensioners were a waste of BT money

It's not in context at all. You should watch the full footage and you'll see they were actually pointing out that the rest of the UK would not pay for the cost of Alex Salmonds wish to reduce pensionable age in Scotland.

I do wish you Natsi's would stop spinning....

[Stuart Dickson]

I didn't call you a liar that time, but for your opening sentence, I will, Liar. You just can't help yourself.

Sorry i didn't provide the link to my statement. Here it is. http://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/04/2014.04.27-AE-TimeseriescCP50.xls

So folks don't feel guilty for not having to pay a parking charge to visit a sick member of your family.

Really? Each parking fee dodged means that the cost of repairs to roads inside hospital grounds and car parks have to be met from the budget for patient care. All the SNP fault ofcourse. Healthcare in Scotland is a devolved matter and it's criminal that those too lazy to walk to their local hospital to visit friends and family are stealing from patients who have the most desperate need. The same is true of prescriptions. The policy of giving free prescriptions to £millionaires like Ann Gloag, Brian Souter, and Tom Farmer at the expense of A&E in our hospitals is a shameful disgrace.

Indeed you could almost suggest that this was the Natsi's first attempt at Eugenics.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

SNP wishing to reduce pensionable age is irrelevant. Project fear scaring pensioners for at least a year over uk pension in independent Scotland. Uk pension minister clarifies that they will still be paid.

Thicko dicko tries to spin it as being about national insurance, then when all else fails blames Alicsammin...

It's getting beyond funny!

[Stuart Dickson]

SNP wishing to reduce pensionable age is irrelevant. Project fear scaring pensioners for at least a year over uk pension in independent Scotland. Uk pension minister clarifies that they will still be paid.

Thicko dicko tries to spin it as being about national insurance, then when all else fails blames Alicsammin...

It's getting beyond funny!

I didn't. If you read the quotes you'll see that Steve Webb was the one who mentioned National Insurance.

Never mind. I can see the flaw in that statement. You can't read.....

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Mibees one day soon dicko will post something accurate, or mibees he'll have a meltdown. I wonder what it will be???

[Stuart Dickson]

Agree smcc

this might be why they are now calling them Emergency Departments as opposed to A&E or Casualty.

The number of people being referred there from GP out of hours service and NHS 24 is also far too high. The system needs to be streamlined to ensure that you go to minor injuries depts not Emergency Dept unless its an ...er emergency.

NHS 24 is a complete waste of money as well. What is the point of phoning a call centre to find out what's wrong with you?