Rolls Royce Pay Offs

[HSS]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/business-consumer/rolls-royce-announced-200-job-3029287

[FS]

Surprised by that, given the exclusive deal they have to be sole engine supplier on the new Airbus A350 airliner which is set to sell a shed load. Presumably the usual story of downsizing a UK workforce whilst increasing productivity in cheaper foreign markets ?

[Drew]

Not good at all, but did you note the little ad line that they have put next to the headline?

SEE MORE STORIES THAT YOU'LL LOVE

[thomsons dropped it]

Shame...RR and Babcock were always synonymous with quality back in the day. It just seems to be constant erosion of this type of workplace. I remember the Apprentices I used to meet at College telling of the kit and training they used to get. Always top notch (Hope they were not fibbing...)

Just another hit in the Engineering game. Sad news indeed.

I wish everyone had the choices I had when I left school, I was no great scholar but Apprenticeships were plentiful when I left St Mirins (Where else ??) in '73.

P.S. I retire nine years yesterday, or 90 more trips Offshore, I'm not counting.....

Edited January 16, 2014 by thomsons dropped it

[chalky1]

You may find depending on the redundancy package that they may get a lot of volunteers, still it's not good news

[oaksoft]

No doubt they'll be whining about difficult financial constraints.

Poor Rolls Royce. Making just £2 billion pre tax profits in 2012 must be a hardship for them.

Another bastard company abusing their staff to fill the directors pockets and then discarded.

Edited January 16, 2014 by oaksoft

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I think its India that the work is off to - they were certainly training some guys from that area how to do their jobs a few months back...

[saintnextlifetime]

I think its India that the work is off to - they were certainly training some guys from that area how to do their jobs a few months back...

Yeh , I think they are also in Poland. .

[saintnextlifetime]

Na , I blame wee Anxious. .

[beyond our ken]

Surprised by that, given the exclusive deal they have to be sole engine supplier on the new Airbus A350 airliner which is set to sell a shed load. Presumably the usual story of downsizing a UK workforce whilst increasing productivity in cheaper foreign markets ?

same old story, use the UK government as a lever to get airbus and defence work then ship it out abroad

when the ink is on the paper, all to satisfy ever-greedier shareholders

[oaksoft]

And there's another one.

Shell are whining today about making just £16 billion profit last year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25773409

"Our 2013 performance was not what I expect from Shell," Shell chief executive Ben van Beurden said in a statement.

Honestly the world has gone completely mental.

Some humans have lost sight of what is important in life.

[Stuart Dickson]

And there's another one.

Shell are whining today about making just £16 billion profit last year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25773409

"Our 2013 performance was not what I expect from Shell," Shell chief executive Ben van Beurden said in a statement.

Honestly the world has gone completely mental.

Some humans have lost sight of what is important in life.

Before I start let me just say that I agree with many of the previous comments - especially Thomsons Dropped It - in mourning the loss of more engineering jobs in Scotland, and particularly from an employer who used to be so good at apprenticeships.

However, playing devils advocate, these jobs losses are against a background where the UK economy has more people in work than ever before. These jobs are in a country who don't even know what currency they'll be using in the near future, never mind what kind of tax regime it's going to follow; amongst a populace where the government, schools, parents and children would all rather target worthless university degree's rather than get their hands dirty in an apprenticeship - a fact backed up by the Scottish Governments financing of further education in preference to offering tax incentives to employers who take on apprentices.

Business has a duty to look after its shareholders and to do that it has to maximise profits and look after the long term future of the business. India appears to be the worlds manufacturing base these days and Indian workers appear to be very keen on engineering. So who has lost sight of what is important Oaksoft? The business community or the Scottish Government and the Scottish population?

Edited January 17, 2014 by Stuart Dickson

[Stuart Dickson]

Are you saying we should do what India did, become Independent from Britain.

Only if you are happy to confirm that Indian levels of poverty are what Scots can expect after Independence.....

[delpierro]

Before I start let me just say that I agree with many of the previous comments - especially Thomsons Dropped It - in mourning the loss of more engineering jobs in Scotland, and particularly from an employer who used to be so good at apprenticeships.

However, playing devils advocate, these jobs losses are against a background where the UK economy has more people in work than ever before. These jobs are in a country who don't even know what currency they'll be using in the near future, never mind what kind of tax regime it's going to follow; amongst a populace where the government, schools, parents and children would all rather target worthless university degree's rather than get their hands dirty in an apprenticeship - a fact backed up by the Scottish Governments financing of further education in preference to offering tax incentives to employers who take on apprentices.

Business has a duty to look after its shareholders and to do that it has to maximise profits and look after the long term future of the business. India appears to be the worlds manufacturing base these days and Indian workers appear to be very keen on engineering. So who has lost sight of what is important Oaksoft? The business community or the Scottish Government and the Scottish population?

yeah, that's why they're moving; to a country that uses the rupee, ya spangle. Companies do business in war-torn countries.

Edited January 17, 2014 by delpierro

[oaksoft]

Before I start let me just say that I agree with many of the previous comments - especially Thomsons Dropped It - in mourning the loss of more engineering jobs in Scotland, and particularly from an employer who used to be so good at apprenticeships.

However, playing devils advocate, these jobs losses are against a background where the UK economy has more people in work than ever before. These jobs are in a country who don't even know what currency they'll be using in the near future, never mind what kind of tax regime it's going to follow; amongst a populace where the government, schools, parents and children would all rather target worthless university degree's rather than get their hands dirty in an apprenticeship - a fact backed up by the Scottish Governments financing of further education in preference to offering tax incentives to employers who take on apprentices.

Business has a duty to look after its shareholders and to do that it has to maximise profits and look after the long term future of the business. India appears to be the worlds manufacturing base these days and Indian workers appear to be very keen on engineering. So who has lost sight of what is important Oaksoft? The business community or the Scottish Government and the Scottish population?

Are you seriously suggesting that Rolls Royce are doing this because of uncertainty over independence?

Allow me to help you out. They are doing it because they dropped their annual profits to a point where the directors personal bonuses are cut or removed.

THAT is why businesses cut jobs when they are making vast profits.

Next year they'll hope that halving the workforce cost will see the profit increase and the directors can then buy a new yacht.

Edited January 17, 2014 by oaksoft

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Before I start let me just say that I agree with many of the previous comments - especially Thomsons Dropped It - in mourning the loss of more engineering jobs in Scotland, and particularly from an employer who used to be so good at apprenticeships.

However, playing devils advocate, these jobs losses are against a background where the UK economy has more people in work than ever before. These jobs are in a country who don't even know what currency they'll be using in the near future, never mind what kind of tax regime it's going to follow; amongst a populace where the government, schools, parents and children would all rather target worthless university degree's rather than get their hands dirty in an apprenticeship - a fact backed up by the Scottish Governments financing of further education in preference to offering tax incentives to employers who take on apprentices.

Business has a duty to look after its shareholders and to do that it has to maximise profits and look after the long term future of the business. India appears to be the worlds manufacturing base these days and Indian workers appear to be very keen on engineering. So who has lost sight of what is important Oaksoft? The business community or the Scottish Government and the Scottish population?

f**king contemptible...and that's after he edited it.

[Stuart Dickson]

Are you seriously suggesting that Rolls Royce are doing this because of uncertainty over independence?

Allow me to help you out. They are doing it because they dropped their annual profits to a point where the directors personal bonuses are cut or removed.

THAT is why businesses cut jobs when they are making vast profits.

Next year they'll hope that halving the workforce cost will see the profit increase and the directors can then buy a new yacht.

I did say I was playing devils advocate. I'm sure there are many reasons for the move, and I'm sure the directors will be looking at how they increase profits again - after all that is their job. I mean FFS, Stewart Gilmour says it often enough for most on here to know that directors have a legal responsibility to look after the best interests of the company and of the shareholders.

I dare say in amongst the many varied factors though there will be an element within them that has been caused by the uncertainty over the future of Scotland and a lack of interest from the Scottish Government in the development of their future workforce. After all those are questions affecting every single business with a Scottish workforce at the moment

[Stuart Dickson]

yeah, that's why they're moving; to a country that uses the rupee, ya spangle. Companies do business in war-torn countries.

I know they use the Indian Rupee - the point is that India currently trades in the Rupee, and it will definitely be trading in the Rupee next year, the year after and the year after that. It's also easy to predict what the tax regime will be in India next year, and what workers rights will look like. Trying doing the same in Scotland right now where we don't know if there will be a minimum wage that increases, decreases, gets scrapped, stays the same etc; and where we won't know if the Scottish Government is capable of affording all of it's pledges especially when there's a very good change it will have to start to build it's credit rating from scratch. There's also no certainty over how interest rates are going to be set, no knowledge of corporation tax rates - nothing!

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I know they use the Indian Rupee - the point is that India currently trades in the Rupee, and it will definitely be trading in the Rupee next year, the year after and the year after that. It's also easy to predict what the tax regime will be in India next year, and what workers rights will look like. Trying doing the same in Scotland right now where we don't know if there will be a minimum wage that increases, decreases, gets scrapped, stays the same etc; and where we won't know if the Scottish Government is capable of affording all of it's pledges especially when there's a very good change it will have to start to build it's credit rating from scratch. There's also no certainty over how interest rates are going to be set, no knowledge of corporation tax rates - nothing!

IF, and it's a really big IF, that was the case why didn't they move the work toEngland?

What an odious person you are.

[oaksoft]

I did say I was playing devils advocate. I'm sure there are many reasons for the move, and I'm sure the directors will be looking at how they increase profits again - after all that is their job. I mean FFS, Stewart Gilmour says it often enough for most on here to know that directors have a legal responsibility to look after the best interests of the company and of the shareholders.

I dare say in amongst the many varied factors though there will be an element within them that has been caused by the uncertainty over the future of Scotland and a lack of interest from the Scottish Government in the development of their future workforce. After all those are questions affecting every single business with a Scottish workforce at the moment

There is no Devils Advocate to play.

Rolls Royce have explained why they are shutting down those jobs and made no mention of Independence being a factor.

BTW that old chestnut about being legally responsible to the shareholders? Which specific law says that when you drop profit but still make vast profits that you must sack your staff as a result?

Without staff you have no company.

This is the clearest possible case of company directors working for their OWN personal gain that you could ever come up with.

I genuinely wonder what it feels like to know you've f**ked over 200 families for the sole reason of allowing you to buy another yacht and then to blame it on that old chestnut "legal responsibility to shareholders".

I wonder how that feels.

This is the problem with large companies. Too much power in the hands of too few people.

You can never trust them.

Here's another wee conundrum for your which should appeal.

Imagine you are in charge of your own large company.

We both agree presumably that highly motivated staff is the best outcome for the company.

What's the best way to motivate your staff?

Do you allow them to genuinely share in the riches of the company when it makes a huge profit?

Or do you pay them the minimum you can get away with and scare them shitless by making them realise their jobs are constantly at risk, working them like a bastard as you do so?

My final point on this matter is as follows.

You are an employee.

If you were made redundant tomorrow think about how long before your savings ran out?

The average person stands at about 1-12 weeks.

If you fall into that category you'd need to consider what it was the made you so certain that you could survive redundancy.

What makes you so certain that your skillset will be needed at your age?

The above questions are rhetorical by the way. Just something to ponder while you rub your hands with glee at more pain for hundreds of families in this country that you no doubt feel "deserve everything they get".

Edited January 18, 2014 by oaksoft

[Stuart Dickson]

There is no Devils Advocate to play.

Rolls Royce have explained why they are shutting down those jobs and made no mention of Independence being a factor.

BTW that old chestnut about being legally responsible to the shareholders? Which specific law says that when you drop profit but still make vast profits that you must sack your staff as a result?

Without staff you have no company.

This is the clearest possible case of company directors working for their OWN personal gain that you could ever come up with.

I genuinely wonder what it feels like to know you've f**ked over 200 families for the sole reason of allowing you to buy another yacht and then to blame it on that old chestnut "legal responsibility to shareholders".

I wonder how that feels.

This is the problem with large companies. Too much power in the hands of too few people.

You can never trust them.

Here's another wee conundrum for your which should appeal.

Imagine you are in charge of your own large company.

We both agree presumably that highly motivated staff is the best outcome for the company.

What's the best way to motivate your staff?

Do you allow them to genuinely share in the riches of the company when it makes a huge profit?

Or do you pay them the minimum you can get away with and scare them shitless by making them realise their jobs are constantly at risk, working them like a bastard as you do so?

My final point on this matter is as follows.

You are an employee.

If you were made redundant tomorrow think about how long before your savings ran out?

The average person stands at about 1-12 weeks.

If you fall into that category you'd need to consider what it was the made you so certain that you could survive redundancy.

What makes you so certain that your skillset will be needed at your age?

The above questions are rhetorical by the way. Just something to ponder while you rub your hands with glee at more pain for hundreds of families in this country that you no doubt feel "deserve everything they get".

Well since you ask - I've worked for both types of company many, many times over and there's no doubt at all in my mind that the constant fear of redundancy is a highly motivating factor in workforce performance. If you want a classic example look at the state of our banks, our schools, the NHS, or any one of a huge number of public sector jobs where job security is high and work performance is low. Of course the motivation is that bit higher if the wages are actually good and there's little chance that if they lose their job they'll land up in a better situation.

I don't know where you get the idea I'm rubbing my hands in glee though. I've already said in my first post that I agreed with the many statements regarding the mourning of the loss of these jobs, and specifically mentioned Thomsons Dropped It's post when he's talked about how good the Rolls Royce apprenticeship used to be and how highly regarded it was. I'm actually incredibly disappointed, if not surprised, at the news of these redundancies and I would certainly have rather seen Alex Salmond and Co use the kind of incentives they offered to Amazon - a shite employer under any definition - to have kept these Rolls Royce jobs in Scotland and to have encouraged them to have gone back to the days of offering the kind of high quality apprenticeships Scotland needs now.

As for me - well I reckon that if I was made redundant I'd do OK. I'm mortgage free and the only debt I have is a very small balance on my credit card which has been accumulated in between pay days so that I can benefit from additional Avios points. The reason I'm in a decent financial position is because I made the most of my engineering apprenticeship - the same kind that most of these Rolls Royce workers would have benefited from - and I find myself working for a company in a growing sector within the energy industry. Indeed the company I work for was recently bought over by one of the biggest energy companies in the world launching our product onto the global market. Despite that I'm far from complacent. I've been around the job market for long enough to know that all it would take for my job to be at threat would be for the contract I work on to under perform.

[Stuart Dickson]

IF, and it's a really big IF, that was the case why didn't they move the work toEngland?

What an odious person you are.

Probably because they already had a manufacturing base in Bangalore.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Well since you ask - I've worked for both types of company many, many times over and there's no doubt at all in my mind that the constant fear of redundancy is a highly motivating factor in workforce performance. If you want a classic example look at the state of our banks, our schools, the NHS, or any one of a huge number of public sector jobs where job security is high and work performance is low. Of course the motivation is that bit higher if the wages are actually good and there's little chance that if they lose their job they'll land up in a better situation.

I don't know where you get the idea I'm rubbing my hands in glee though. I've already said in my first post that I agreed with the many statements regarding the mourning of the loss of these jobs, and specifically mentioned Thomsons Dropped It's post when he's talked about how good the Rolls Royce apprenticeship used to be and how highly regarded it was. I'm actually incredibly disappointed, if not surprised, at the news of these redundancies and I would certainly have rather seen Alex Salmond and Co use the kind of incentives they offered to Amazon - a shite employer under any definition - to have kept these Rolls Royce jobs in Scotland and to have encouraged them to have gone back to the days of offering the kind of high quality apprenticeships Scotland needs now.

As for me - well I reckon that if I was made redundant I'd do OK. I'm mortgage free and the only debt I have is a very small balance on my credit card which has been accumulated in between pay days so that I can benefit from additional Avios points. The reason I'm in a decent financial position is because I made the most of my engineering apprenticeship - the same kind that most of these Rolls Royce workers would have benefited from - and I find myself working for a company in a growing sector within the energy industry. Indeed the company I work for was recently bought over by one of the biggest energy companies in the world launching our product onto the global market. Despite that I'm far from complacent. I've been around the job market for long enough to know that all it would take for my job to be at threat would be for the contract I work on to under perform.

I was going to work through these posts pointing out the contradictions you make from one post to the next and the inaccuracies or blatant lies but life's too short.

Keep on trolling dicko

[salmonbuddie]

So they can make the posts redundant and transfer the work to Bangalore. Pay attention!

Edited January 18, 2014 by salmonbuddie

[salmonbuddie]

Double post, sorry.

Edited January 18, 2014 by salmonbuddie