Seaside Nipper Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 (edited) How can they be allowed to openly bid hundreds if thousands of pounds for players, but still be relying on loans for running costs? I'd bloody love it if they failed automatic promotion again the smug clowns Well, I'd venture that maybe its because just like the Sellic , the Govan mob know they are bigger than the governing authorities and that the fitba authorities need them for their own self gratification and self preservation. The Govan club exude an arrogance and attitude, as do their support, that rules dont really apply to them, they have an automatic right to do what they want, despite the League Association rules that may require a degree of compliance. Financial transactions and club business 'management' are their special right, no one should question the validity or degree of compliance around their actions. Somewhere else it was mentioned that there are cicra ten ( 10 no ) court cases at present involving the Govan Football club currently underway, well there's another illustration, if one was needed on the degree of rank disorder about the club. When you think about all the non football generated income over all the years the old Rangers spent during Murray's tenure, folk sat back and revelled in it, including most journalists ( some in particular acclaimed Murray's actions ) and Scottish league officials, never once expressing concerns about fair play or level playing feilds, association rules, etc etc etc. They simply let the dice tumble, thought that a footballing nirvana was the preserve of the great Glasgow club and everything in the garden was rosy. The hypocrisy around this club and the Scottish footballing industry as a whole is simply staggering. Now the true cluster f**k that is the Govan football club is being realised, yet they carry on regardless, it's as if they have to appease the baying hordes in the stands at all costs and f**k due dilligence , compliance, rules and regulations..............none of that can surely apply to their ambition, after all, its those meddling provincial diddies that hold these great clubs back Most folk are only interested in seeing Sellic up against a Govan blue, that's the game up here, as far as the 'ifluencial majority' are concerned. How dare other members of the Association attempt to challenge them on or off the park ! Hmmm, having just penned that, I think I've confirmed my resignation from Scottish football fandom ........................... Rant aff chest, inhale, ......................... and exhale edit : to credit Dopb for the court stuff Edited January 14, 2016 by Seaside Nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 How would Rangers losing to HMRC affect The Rangers? They are two entirely separate clubs. Rangers are in liquidation and no longer play football. Their loss to HMRC would be irrelevant to the entirely different club now operating out of Ibrox. The HMRC case can come into play depending on the outcome of the trial of Green, Duff & Phelps etc. If the court rules that Green's takeover was fraudulent then apparently King etc will not own the assets and they will revert to oldco in liquidation, and they will owe HMRC about £100m in taxes, penalties and interest. One rumour doing the rounds is that Craig Whyte may have a lot of hard evidence to prove that Green and members of Duff & Phelps knowingly defrauded him and oldco when they put their takeover bid together... ownership of newco and its assets may be awarded to BDO if that is how the court rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_F Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 I get the bit Rangers were good for lower league clubs it stands to reason. Excuse my common stupidity Stuart but has Gilmour got to do with Clyde debt ? I'd love to see Gilmour stand for the SNP. LawStud would self-combust with rage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggie Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Well, I'd venture that maybe its because just like the Sellic , the Govan mob know they are bigger than the governing authorities and that the fitba authorities need them for their own self gratification and self preservation. The Govan club exude an arrogance and attitude, as do their support, that rules dont really apply to them, they have an automatic right to do what they want, despite the League Association rules that may require a degree of compliance. Financial transactions and club business 'management' are their special right, no one should question the validity or degree of compliance around their actions. Somewhere else it was mentioned that there are cicra ten ( 10 no ) court cases at present involving the Govan Football club currently underway, well there's another illustration, if one was needed on the degree of rank disorder about the club. When you think about all the non football generated income over all the years the old Rangers spent during Murray's tenure, folk sat back and revelled in it, including most journalists ( some in particular acclaimed Murray's actions ) and Scottish league officials, never once expressing concerns about fair play or level playing feilds, association rules, etc etc etc. They simply let the dice tumble, thought that a footballing nirvana was the preserve of the great Glasgow club and everything in the garden was rosy. The hypocrisy around this club and the Scottish footballing industry as a whole is simply staggering. Now the true cluster f**k that is the Govan football club is being realised, yet they carry on regardless, it's as if they have to appease the baying hordes in the stands at all costs and f**k due dilligence , compliance, rules and regulations..............none of that can surely apply to their ambition, after all, its those meddling provincial diddies that hold these great clubs back Most folk are only interested in seeing Sellic up against a Govan blue, that's the game up here, as far as the 'ifluencial majority' are concerned. How dare other members of the Association attempt to challenge them on or off the park ! Hmmm, having just penned that, I think I've confirmed my resignation from Scottish football fandom ........................... Rant aff chest, inhale, ......................... and exhale edit : to credit Dopb for the court stuff Yet for all that, there are some on here who would be quite happy for Saints to fleece their fans for £25 a time and even let them have most of the stadium. Football fans are football fans, its not their fault the club had been badly managed so why should they be punished ( and of course Saints fans will also be forced to pay £25 for the privilege of yet another tanking.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Yet for all that, there are some on here who would be quite happy for Saints to fleece their fans for £25 a time and even let them have most of the stadium. Football fans are football fans, its not their fault the club had been badly managed so why should they be punished Wind-up, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinbuddie Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 The HMRC case can come into play depending on the outcome of the trial of Green, Duff & Phelps etc. If the court rules that Green's takeover was fraudulent then apparently King etc will not own the assets and they will revert to oldco in liquidation, and they will owe HMRC about £100m in taxes, penalties and interest. One rumour doing the rounds is that Craig Whyte may have a lot of hard evidence to prove that Green and members of Duff & Phelps knowingly defrauded him and oldco when they put their takeover bid together... ownership of newco and its assets may be awarded to BDO if that is how the court rules. Was Craig Whyte not said to be keen on taping lots of the conversations he had while he was owner of the Oldco? There could be a fair few folk in Scottish football worried about what he has stored away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Was Craig Whyte not said to be keen on taping lots of the conversations he had while he was owner of the Oldco? There could be a fair few folk in Scottish football worried about what he has stored away. There is a lot of speculation that despite being the pantomime villain in the media coverage of Rangers' administration and liquidation that Whyte recorded all his meetings on a pen with a microphone and that he has loads of dirt on Green and Duff & Phelps, Doncaster and Regan which will show he / oldco were defrauded by Green and co when they tookover following oldco being put into liquidation and the takeover was unlawful. If it wasn't for the fact he is himself accused of fraud with Ticketus and his own purchase of RFC from David Murray ownership of "Rangers" could well have reverted back to him. If Green's takeover is ruled to be unlawful the most likely scenario is that the assets of newco will be handed to BDO (oldco's administrators) and Ibrox, Murray Park / Auchenhowie etc could all be auctioned off and huge question marks also look set to be placed over the legality of the 5 way agreement to let newco into the lowest division of the SPFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 And this would give us at least 1 home win in the league before the end of the season! There is a fair amount of speculation that the board of the international Rangers are trying to bounce supporters CIC Rangers First into lending the club possibly 3 loans of £0.5m each to make it to the end of this season and keep the lights on, unless they end up selling a few players for decent fees during the January window and missing out on their own £500k transfer targets. With £300k frozen for the unpaid small local wifi firm, other unpaid creditors may begin taking similar legal action to try and get their money, and legal bills from the various court cases in the next few months could cost another £1m. Some of the court cases ongoing at the moment are: 1. Mike Ashley v Dave King contempt of court / breaching gagging order - currently going King's way but if Ashley loses he can appeal. Worst case scenario for King is losing the case and being jailed... what then for the SFA and SPFL if King has passed their fit and proper chairman test and finds himself jailed while Rangers chairman? 2. Mike Ashley v King / RIFC Board - mishandling shareholders voting rights at AGM. Ashley has a strong case and King and board could be fined and warned about being suspended as directors. 3. Sandy Easdale v King / RIFC Board - on the same issue as above and going to court after the Ashley case should have reached a verdict. If King and the board lose against Ashley it is hard to see how they would win against Easdale and should they lose it will be a second offence and they could be suspended as directors by the court at this point. 4. Wifi company v Rangers - have £300k in Rangers accounts frozen at the moment over an unpaid bill which the club are contesting. Club said at AGM the stadium wifi was not working because the system installed was not good enough - it now looks like there was no wifi on matchdays as Virgin Media had switched off the system as a result of overdue bills not being paid. 5. Charles Green v RIFC - Green claims he had a deal with the club they would foot all his legal bills for any court actions relating to his time at the club. RIFC won but Green is appealing and back in court later this week. 6. SFA v Ashley over non-payment of fine for being a major shareholder at 2 clubs 7. Ashley v SFA over approving King & Paul Murray as fit and proper persons to be directors at a football club given King's convictions in South Africa for fraud, tax evation etc and their involvement as directors when RFC went into administration and liquidation. 8. Ticketus v Craig Whyte and others - Whyte / RFC never repaid the Ticketus loan money and obtained it fraudulently. 9. Charles Green, Duff & Phelps etc on trial for buying the club fraudulently from adminstrators - could see ownership of the assets switch back to Craig Whyte (unlikely!), BDO administrators of the liquidation of oldco, and see assets like Ibrox auctioned off to pay debts to HMRC and other creditors. 10. BDO v HMRC - appealing last year's decision that Rangers lost what is known at the Big Tax Case. Those are just the current court cases, more unpaid creditors may come forward if there are fears they could go into administration again as creditors appeal to the courts to freeze / ring fence money they are due. The silnce from the SFA / SPFL and media about the amount and gravity / repercussions of the court cases is staggering, even despite recent history. And then there are the mounting financial woes. Before the AGM approved repaying Ashley's £5m loan the accounts showed they were still losing a crazy amount of cash each month and needed to find £2m in new investment before the end of the season to remain solvent. So far Rangers have announced raising £6.5m - £5m has gone to Ashley, £300k is frozen, and legal bills for the court cases above which the club will be liable for could reach around £1m. Interest payments on the £6.5m loans could well be of the loan shark interest rate variety and cost the club in the region of another £1m. If these bit of speculation are close to being true as court cases unfold then even though £6.5m has been "raised in 5 minutes" in phone calls to real Rangers men, then the club may need to raise £2-3m between now and the end of the season to stay solvent - hence why they could be selling players rather than buying during the window and why they are trying to raid the money raised by Rangers First for buying shares in the club to help facilitate a fan buy out. It is also being suggested Rangers are 1 month behind in paying player bonuses at the moment, and cup runs with Rangers always playing at home and being chosen to get the larger TV pay outs could also be vital in helping them limp financially on until they can start selling season tickets. I don't expect Rangers to lose every case they possibly could, or see Ibrox being auctioned off, but even losing just a few of the court cases, HMRC over EBTs, and some of the ones involving King could be enough to bring down the house of cards again.Hard to see how they can raise more money while King could be banned as a director / chairman over several charges he is facing. Just as well the SFA and SPFL now have a robust and fair set of rule for dealing with all that is about to go down! The case about Green's takeover doesn't start til after many of the other cases and could well be one of the longer running cases, but as well as throwing up the question of how the real legal owner of RIFC is, and who owns the assets they use, it is also likely to reveal a lot of embarrassing info for the SFA / SPFL / Doncaster / Regan over the deal to let Sevco into the 4th division of Scottish footie after Rangers were liquidated. A fair amount of this will begin unfolding in the weeks and months before our home game against The Rangers. What a load of unsibstantiated bollocks... Give Us proof man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 The HMRC case can come into play depending on the outcome of the trial of Green, Duff & Phelps etc. If the court rules that Green's takeover was fraudulent then apparently King etc will not own the assets and they will revert to oldco in liquidation, and they will owe HMRC about £100m in taxes, penalties and interest. One rumour doing the rounds is that Craig Whyte may have a lot of hard evidence to prove that Green and members of Duff & Phelps knowingly defrauded him and oldco when they put their takeover bid together... ownership of newco and its assets may be awarded to BDO if that is how the court rules. Absolute bollocks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 A summary of what the 8 or 9 current court cases are about and how the courts might rule and what the implications might be for newco and the rest of Scottish football: https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2016/01/14/litigation-du-jour/ One scenario that I haven't mentioned before is that if Green's document for his share issue is found to have contained lies then newco FC become liable if individual investors like fans and Ashley, the Easdales, and investment groups like Blue Pitch Holdings want to sue the football club - the original share price was 70p and since they have been removed from the stock market under King and are now worth something like 25p ... almost 2/3 of the value has been lost and investors in the share issue may be able to sue for the loss in value - I think Green said the share issue raised £20-30m. I'd suggest if this scenario plays out then it would be enough to put them into administration / liquidation... as newco could be liable fr being sued for between £12-18m by investors and they are already struggling to make it to the summer without getting loans from Rangers First. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Absolute bollocks... If you haven't read any of the John James site blogs I recommend you have a read there and make your own mind up. Basically it is Rangers fans who have had some access to some of the documents being prepared for the court cases talking through what is going to be happening in the courts in the next few months with input from accountants and lawyers in the comments section. It would be fair to say the blog author view Dave King as the biggest crook yet to have been running the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 My own guess is that much like the old Big Tax case blog while not everything predicted there came to pass, it only took some of it to be right for oldco to go into administration then liquidation. Reading this new blog has reminded me of the Big Tax Case blog where it felt like there was so much which the media were not reporting and too much wrong for the club to survive, and that's my feeling on newco... we won't see them lose every court case or get maximum punishment but its hard not to feel they are living on borrowed time again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 What a load of unsibstantiated bollocks... Give Us proof man. From the man who always provides proof when asked to "sibstantiate" anything he posts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosferatu Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 The HMRC case can come into play depending on the outcome of the trial of Green, Duff & Phelps etc. If the court rules that Green's takeover was fraudulent then apparently King etc will not own the assets and they will revert to oldco in liquidation, and they will owe HMRC about £100m in taxes, penalties and interest. One rumour doing the rounds is that Craig Whyte may have a lot of hard evidence to prove that Green and members of Duff & Phelps knowingly defrauded him and oldco when they put their takeover bid together... ownership of newco and its assets may be awarded to BDO if that is how the court rules. Its a nice thought. However, from what I've read, this won't happen, regardless of what happens with green, Whyte, etc. The assets will stay where they are... With the new club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosferatu Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 A summary of what the 8 or 9 current court cases are about and how the courts might rule and what the implications might be for newco and the rest of Scottish football: https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2016/01/14/litigation-du-jour/ One scenario that I haven't mentioned before is that if Green's document for his share issue is found to have contained lies then newco FC become liable if individual investors like fans and Ashley, the Easdales, and investment groups like Blue Pitch Holdings want to sue the football club - the original share price was 70p and since they have been removed from the stock market under King and are now worth something like 25p ... almost 2/3 of the value has been lost and investors in the share issue may be able to sue for the loss in value - I think Green said the share issue raised £20-30m. I'd suggest if this scenario plays out then it would be enough to put them into administration / liquidation... as newco could be liable fr being sued for between £12-18m by investors and they are already struggling to make it to the summer without getting loans from Rangers First. Nice blog! Just had a read... It would be great if it comes to pass... I can't see it happening. Then again, who would have imagined what has happened so far happening in the first place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 From the man who always provides proof when asked to "sibstantiate" anything he posts! Hands up!!! Posted after a few dry Cobra's, dry Red and Dry whisky... Well it is Dry January. Couldnt actually read your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggie Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 Wind-up, right? Do I take from that, you agree with overcharging fans (of whatever team)and particularly if its a team with a big following ? You may not like Rangers, and as they have always been my local team I will always have a soft spot for them, but fans are fans and cannot be blamed for the fortunes - or misfortunes - of their club. At present, I feel ashamed at how my own club is treating its fans, by overcharging for lower league football and employing useless managers and players but the only thing I feel I can do is absent myself from the proceedings until some sense prevails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 Do I take from that, you agree with overcharging fans (of whatever team)and particularly if its a team with a big following ? You may not like Rangers, and as they have always been my local team I will always have a soft spot for them, but fans are fans and cannot be blamed for the fortunes - or misfortunes - of their club. At present, I feel ashamed at how my own club is treating its fans, by overcharging for lower league football and employing useless managers and players but the only thing I feel I can do is absent myself from the proceedings until some sense prevails. Whether they can be blamed for the fortunes or misfortunes is one thing but they can sure be blamed for the way they conducted themselves with threatening individuals, boycotts of anyone who even thought that the club/company had acted in any inappropriate way, the list could go on!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggie Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 Whether they can be blamed for the fortunes or misfortunes is one thing but they can sure be blamed for the way they conducted themselves with threatening individuals, boycotts of anyone who even thought that the club/company had acted in any inappropriate way, the list could go on!! None of which - as far as I am aware - have come to pass. Better to concentrate on our own clubs shortcomings I fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosferatu Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 None of which - as far as I am aware - have come to pass. Better to concentrate on our own clubs shortcomings I fear. Rangers fans conducted a "Rangers deserve better" campaign in the year before the sale to Whyte, demanding that Murray spend more cash on the team. The pressure of the support of the years was undoubtedly the driver for overspending, borrowing and the use of EBTs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 None of which - as far as I am aware - have come to pass. Better to concentrate on our own clubs shortcomings I fear. I was replying to a post you thought worthwhile to compose!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 Do I take from that, you agree with overcharging fans (of whatever team)and particularly if its a team with a big following ? You may not like Rangers, and as they have always been my local team I will always have a soft spot for them, but fans are fans and cannot be blamed for the fortunes - or misfortunes - of their club. At present, I feel ashamed at how my own club is treating its fans, by overcharging for lower league football and employing useless managers and players but the only thing I feel I can do is absent myself from the proceedings until some sense prevails. They allow it to happen They think Rangers/Sevco are a big club The reason they think this is because Rangers/Sevco think and act big Things would improve if they would get back into the real world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) Nice blog! Just had a read... It would be great if it comes to pass... I can't see it happening. Then again, who would have imagined what has happened so far happening in the first place! The blog takes the viewpoint that out of Murray, Whyte, Green, the Easdales, Ashley and King, King is the biggest crook and has invested the least money and has no money of his own to invest and it is more a matter of when rather than if newco enter administration. Edited January 15, 2016 by Dibbles old paperboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosferatu Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 The blog takes the viewpoint that out of Murray, Whyte, Green, the Easdales, Ashley and King, King is the biggest crook and has invested the least money and has no money of his own to invest and it is more a matter of when rather than if newco enter administration. Why has King done it? What's he getting out of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kombi Buddie Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) Really unsure why this is unclear in any way shape or form, but this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the club. I'm merely speculating on a couple of scenarios to do with the game that might not even come to pass. Only reason it came to mind was when I was getting the prediction league prepared with games to the end of the season ! Some folk absolutely can't wait to have a go at the board, it's totally f**king absurd !!!!! People getting their nickers in a twist over your speculation is because, we/they can actually imagine the BoD sitting scratching their chins & thinking they could get away with that "as we need the money" Why not, we whored ourselves to Celtic in the summer, whoring ourselves to Rangers won't do any further harm to the club. Personally, I wouldn't entertain the idea. Rangers & Celtic fans have always infiltrated the home end, let things stay that way. If St Mirren really want to capitalise on getting a payday from Rangers for taking it up the shitter, switch the game to Ibrox and St Mirren keeps the gate receipts. A helluva lot more money if it's being done for the money, just like minnow clubs in England's FA Cup switching to the bigger club for a payday. & for Shull et al, Season tickets are valid. Edited January 16, 2016 by Kombi Buddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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