Dibbles old paperboy Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Possibly, though you have to factor the Ian Murray effect into that equation. I reckon he makes an art form from turning a silk purse into a sow's ear. Very true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I'm not really sure that is the plan though. Under Tom Hendrie it didn't take long before we could see entertaining, but more to the point effective, attacking football. I felt pretty confident at the start of the 99/00 season that we could win the league (as did many that took advantage of the generous odds at the bookies!) We're not making the same progress yet and I think being "difficult to beat" will be the trademark of the Rae & Farrell approach. I'm happy enough for us to take this road, but I would expect some signs of a professional team being on the park: e.g ability to pass more than 5 yards. ETA: I'm using Hendrie as an example as although it was a while ago, he took over a similarly struggling team in the same league as Rae. I can see your point, although I don't agree. We haven't been difficult to beat - lost 6 out of 15 under Rae. We have won 8 out of 15 though, so we have a win percentage above 50%,, which is very good. If we can turn some defeats into draws, we can definitely challenge at the top of the league and can definitely be in the play offs next season. It's all ifs and buts, especially as we'll need to totally rebuild in the summer again, but I would like to see us winning games, no matter how we play, for a while, after the horror of the past two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 A clear out will probably happen but isn't always necessary. Tom Hendrie turned us into champions with the bulk of the squad he inherited. Indeed, he lost McNamee & O'Brien. The big signing was of course Barry Lavety. Gus Macpherson also finished 2nd and 1st with a number of the players who had fought against relegation. And Leicester City have managed to go from fighting relegation to potential champions with more or less the same squad. The addition of a defensive midfielder probably being the main signing... Hendrie played players to their strengths. Turner and Yardley hadn't featured much before Hendrie arrived. Turner was out on loan IIRC - they were massively important in the promotion winning side. Also IIRC Hendrie brought in Ross and Walker as well as Lavety. The thing was the players looked like they were enjoying it. They were playing with a freedom and a confidence that I don't see in Rae side. Even Baltacha looked like a player FFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I see a lot of parallels between Alex Rae and Gus MacPherson. Gus also took over a shambles of a team, and steadied the ship to ensure survival. It wasn't particularly pretty but it got the job done. Rae has done exactly the same. It's really difficult to take over and improve a squad that was basically broken in January with no money to spend. I thought he traded pretty well when all said and done. We've a tough run-in and there could yet be a few squeeky moments but think we'll finish 7th or 8th come the finish. It's not great but the day we lost at Dumbarton under Murray I think most of us would have snatched your hand off if offered any place outside the relegation play offs. Gus took over in Nov 2003 after a 0-4 reverse by ICT. In that season 2003-2004 we finished 7th with 37 points, ironically the total we have today with 5 games left. In 2004-2005 we finished 2nd under Gus with 60 points, before then clinching the title in 2005-2006 with 76 points. It's obviously a different league now, there are more chance of getting promoted now but the flipside of that, and the Secvo situation, is that you can end up with a few big lads in there which in turn makes it harder to get out. I think Rae will also need a couple of years to get us back to being promotion contenders. I don't think we were ever particularly pretty to watch under Gus but nobody moaned about the style of play when we were winning. The same is certain to be true of the Rae & Farrell teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 As an aside when I was looking at those stats here are the points totals of the teams finishing 9th in the previous few Championship (Div 1 seasons). 2014-2015 - Alloa 27pts 2013-2014 - Cowdenbeath 40pts 2012-2013 - Dunfermline 34pts 2011-2012 - Ayr 38pts 2010-2011 - Cowdenbeatgh 35pts 2009-2010 - Airdrie 33pts So we aren't quite safe yet but then again Rangers, Falkirk and Hibs have hoovered up a huge amount of points off the other 7 teams. I don't think there is any chance of us finishing 9th but to be absolutely sure we probably need 3 more points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggie Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Theres no doubt that Rae has improved on Ian Murrays dire managerial term, but of course that wouldn't be hard. I have conceded that Saints are not likely to get anyone decent at present and the squad of players he inherited is one of the worst in living memory. That said, and I accept his remit may have been primarily to save us from relegation ,we are still not clear of trouble and missed out on 4th place by a way. Rae still seems to utter the usual managerial drivel post match, no doubt to protect his position. Lets face it, a long time has passed since we were playing good football and unless there is a massive clear out during the close season, and replaced by guys who can play football, we will struggle again next term. Its just my own personal view, but I don't think Alex Rae will be any good for Saints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I don't care whether he uses Goodwin or Thompson but I don't see players enjoying their football, being played to their strengths and being played to push their capabilities. That's why I failed Rae. His team selections, IMO, have been indicitive of a manager who has been prepared to give players a chance to prove what they've got. That's fine, he needs to decide who to keep and who to bin.....but what I can't understand is why players who fail time and time again appear to be untouchable. Players like Agnew, Mallan, and Stewart should have been way past their last lives by now. Surely that's what he's doing between now and the end of the season? Learning which positions need to be strengthened, and identifying which players need to be punted. Weird angle you're taking here Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Theres no doubt that Rae has improved on Ian Murrays dire managerial term, but of course that wouldn't be hard. I have conceded that Saints are not likely to get anyone decent at present and the squad of players he inherited is one of the worst in my living memory. Sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggie Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Sorted. You have to bear in mind that us amphibians are not long lived, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Surely that's what he's doing between now and the end of the season? Learning which positions need to be strengthened, and identifying which players need to be punted. Weird angle you're taking here Dickson Did you read the whole post? Try again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) For illustration purposes only. This was the table when Rae took over. Two wins in 16 league games, 1 point off the relegation playoff, 3 points off the bottom, 8 points off the promotion playoff places, 29 points off the top. Ths is the table if we take only the games played since Rae took over. 8 wins in 15 games, 16 clear of the relegation playoff place, 19 clear of the bottom, In the promotion play off places, 9 points off the top. That shows the improvement in the team's results since Alex Rae took over. The guy deserves credit. Edited March 30, 2016 by Soctty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Good post ^ Sadly those with an agenda won't give him credit, regardless of things like facts. Had he been appointed in the summer in Murray's stead I'm sure we would be in the playoffs. The football isn't pretty, but then again who cares. It doesn't have to be to get results in this league, and results are all that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Good post ^ Sadly those with an agenda won't give him credit, regardless of things like facts. Had he been appointed in the summer in Murray's stead I'm sure we would be in the playoffs. The football isn't pretty, but then again who cares. It doesn't have to be to get results in this league, and results are all that matter. I have to ask.................... Do you remember Lex? The biggest troll who ,week after week, trashed Danny Lennon? If you do, then you wouldn't raise the subject of agendas with anyone.......................unless you are Lex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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