The Politics Thread

[antrin]

46 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

 

 

I hope you wouldn't think my comment were thick or bigoted.

I had planned in my passing to go into Kwang Tung for my supper, but was gutted it was closed by the time I passed.

I've spoken to Peter who I believe is the current owner numerous times and I have dealings with him professionally a few times. Another person who is an excellent host who provided many buds excellent cuisine.

 

Of course, not!  I was backing up your well-founded, perfectly well-intended description of a variety of food provision.  I was echoing that I'd also been pulled up for something that seemed value-free, to me.
 

[Slarti]

Of course, not!  I was backing up your well-founded, perfectly well-intended description of a variety of food provision.  I was echoing that I'd also been pulled up for something that seemed value-free, to me.
 

It's not value-free, it tells you a lot about the person saying it.

[antrin]

What does it tell you, then?

I attach no special value to generalised food product nomenclatures.

 

 

 

(apart from sometimes overdoing long, clumsy words…)

[Slarti]

What does it tell you, then?
I attach no special value to generalised food product nomenclatures.
 
 
 
(apart from sometimes overdoing long, clumsy words…)

That they are an arse.

[antrin]

3 minutes ago, Slarti said:

5 minutes ago, antrin said:

What does it tell you, then?
I attach no special value to generalised food product nomenclatures.
 
 
 
(apart from sometimes overdoing long, clumsy words…)

That they are an arse.

So… Cookie Monster and myself are arses?

Or the people doing the political correctness?  

[faraway saint]

15 minutes ago, antrin said:

So… Cookie Monster and myself are arses?

Occasionally and regularly. 

[Slarti]

So… Cookie Monster and myself are arses?
Or the people doing the political correctness?  

The other folk ... and Cookie. [emoji16]

[antrin]

Phew!

[stlucifer]

On 10/26/2023 at 4:46 PM, beyond our ken said:

You are right

You, Scott and everyone who never got off their arse to set it up are horribly discriminatory 

you do realise it was set up by black people who felt their history needed wider appreciation and they wouldn’t necessarily have thought about other skin hues?

Thought not!

Setting it up is one thing. Many people start up clubs/associations. Championing it on a supposedly all inclusive media station without a complimentary viewpoint is, IMO, discriminatory. In fact. The narrative being driven by those who are not unbiased can be construed as biased in its content.

[antrin]

No one “champions” things on a tv/ media station.

people or organisations make programmes that they believe sufficient people will be interested in, so that they can sell them to outlets like BBC, SKY etc.  Programmes cost money.  They need to make a return an income on their investment.

Those broadcasting companies won’t buy such product unless they believe that there is an audience out there that will want to tune in for it.

They want to appeal to viewers to justify their existence.  The media executives who chose to show such shows need to justify their choices, so they show stuff they hope will achieve an audience.

 

I’m guessing that Breaking Through with Zeze Millz on STV is the programme that doesn’t tickle your fancy…

STV may think there’s an audience beyond you, st lucifer - that will appeal to a lot of its viewers.  It’s not all about you.

It could just be that it’s been bought by an ITV purchasing group and though they accept there may be parts of UK where there would be hundreds of thousands of very interested viewers, they’ll bung it out to all sectors of the group just as fresh new product.

 

There is so much choice for people of Peely-Wally complexion, it’s about time other groups had a go.

Did you also hate, loathe and detest “Goodness, Gracious Me” and “Citizen Khan” without there being a specific “complimentary viewpoint”?

Or had Alf Garnett and curry and chips already sated that need?

There’s so much shite on tv, I see no need to discriminate on any of it.

 

 

[beyond our ken]

6 hours ago, stlucifer said:

Setting it up is one thing. Many people start up clubs/associations. Championing it on a supposedly all inclusive media station without a complimentary viewpoint is, IMO, discriminatory. In fact. The narrative being driven by those who are not unbiased can be construed as biased in its content.

I understand 

it’s about Black folk and you are upset

i can’t help you out with that 

[stlucifer]

22 hours ago, beyond our ken said:

I understand 

it’s about Black folk and you are upset

i can’t help you out with that 

You obviously don't understand. It's about fairness and non discrimination. Regardless of gender, creed or colour.

I can't help that you are not willing to call it out. Why is it one section of society get to have a national celebration of their colour when the rest of us would be called racist if we did the same?

[ALBIONSAINT]

4 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

You obviously don't understand. It's about fairness and non discrimination. Regardless of gender, creed or colour.

I can't help that you are not willing to call it out. Why is it one section of society get to have a national celebration of their colour when the rest of us would be called racist if we did the same?

I am afraid that type of thinking is now cancelled. Unless you admit that you have white privilege and pay homage to the anointed you will be thought of as a heretic. 
 

why does one section of society get a month to celebrate their history? Simple answer to that , BLM ideology. 
I wonder what Mr King would make of it all.

“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” – Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

 

[antrin]

17 hours ago, stlucifer said:

You obviously don't understand. It's about fairness and non discrimination. Regardless of gender, creed or colour.

I can't help that you are not willing to call it out. Why is it one section of society get to have a national celebration of their colour when the rest of us would be called racist if we did the same?

I already explained this for you just a couple of posts above.  It's about making money, about catering to a neglected audience.

I suppose that - as I couldn’t confirm your bias - it wasn’t the answer you needed to hear?

 

Here’s a revolutionary thought…

Do you have some way of changing to different channels? A remote control, perhaps?

Or an off-button?

You shouldn’t be unfairly subjected anything “different”!

[W6er]

35 minutes ago, antrin said:

I already explained this for you just a couple of posts above.  It's about making money, about catering to a neglected audience.

I suppose that - as I couldn’t confirm your bias - it wasn’t the answer you needed to hear?

 

Here’s a revolutionary thought…

Do you have some way of changing to different channels? A remote control, perhaps?

Or an off-button?

You shouldn’t be unfairly subjected anything “different”!

That's speculative. How can you possibly know that's the motivation? 

Black people are hugely over-represented in television adverts. I believe the black population of the UK is ~5% and the white population is ~80%, therefore it would appear to be in the best interests of advertisers to make their adverts appeal to the majority of the population, or at least have their adverts represent the UK's demographics. This is especially true given claims of 'unconscious bias' and even rank bigotry amongst the white British, which, if true, would potentially tarnish the product being advertised. This indicates there is another motive.

 

[beyond our ken]

19 hours ago, stlucifer said:

You obviously don't understand. It's about fairness and non discrimination. Regardless of gender, creed or colour.

I can't help that you are not willing to call it out. Why is it one section of society get to have a national celebration of their colour when the rest of us would be called racist if we did the same?

I'm a celebrity comes back soon and that will eat up a comparative, if not even larger slice of airtime on our tellies and teaches us sod all.  Why not complain about that?

FFS, It's a few telly programmes over a few weeks once a year, not a threat to so-called national identity.  The only unpleasant aspect is the fact that it is used to try and remind us that Lenny Henry was once funny.  

Can't you just let people have that without complaining?  Scotland has a channel dedicated to Scottish content and a large part of that focusses on the general history of Scotland and rarely touches on black history

The same goes for other UK national tv channels that focus on generic UK history.

Given the exploitation, prejudice and rejection that Black people have had to and still endure, it can only be helpful if they remind themselves and the rest of us what their history in the UK actually is, because there will no meaningful reconcilliation between groups unless people go into that process.

Maybe you are making the mistake of thinking that events like Black History Month are an exclusive celebration of Black culture and that's not the case.  It's an opportunity for everyone to get involved and learn more about how the nation came to be as it is.

[W6er]

17 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

I'm a celebrity comes back soon and that will eat up a comparative, if not even larger slice of airtime on our tellies and teaches us sod all.  Why not complain about that?

FFS, It's a few telly programmes over a few weeks once a year, not a threat to so-called national identity.  The only unpleasant aspect is the fact that it is used to try and remind us that Lenny Henry was once funny.  

Can't you just let people have that without complaining?  Scotland has a channel dedicated to Scottish content and a large part of that focusses on the general history of Scotland and rarely touches on black history

The same goes for other UK national tv channels that focus on generic UK history.

Given the exploitation, prejudice and rejection that Black people have had to and still endure, it can only be helpful if they remind themselves and the rest of us what their history in the UK actually is, because there will no meaningful reconcilliation between groups unless people go into that process.

Maybe you are making the mistake of thinking that events like Black History Month are an exclusive celebration of Black culture and that's not the case.  It's an opportunity for everyone to get involved and learn more about how the nation came to be as it is.

Black history is an exclusive celebration of one race's history! You might claim everyone can celebrate it, but the people you are celebrating have to be black. Try celebrating the achievements of Oliver Cromwell or Winston Churchill and you will surely be told they're not black.

You think that highlighting historical black oppression at the hands of whitey, which is what a large portion of black history is, and providing a history month to exclusively celebrate one race's achievements helps reconciliation? I'd suggest it's likely to foster resentment in both communities. If you want to build a cohesive nation don't emphasise the historical grievances between different peoples or conspicuously promote one group over another. 

 

[antrin]

1 hour ago, W6er said:

That's speculative. How can you possibly know that's the motivation? 

I worked in the industry (and taught about it in various educational establishments) so I have experience of how it works and believe I can speculate from an informed background.  
 

What’s the basis for you not wanting to simply see black people on tv? (For a change).

Black people are hugely over-represented in television adverts.
That's speculative. How can you possibly know that.  It’s only your skewed perception , looking at it from within a biased white bubble.

I believe the black population of the UK is ~5% and the white population is ~80%, therefore it would appear to be in the best interests of advertisers to make their adverts appeal to the majority of the population, or at least have their adverts represent the UK's demographics.

Why?   Not everyone is racially provoked!I don’t care about people’s skin colour.

This is especially true given claims of 'unconscious bias' and even rank bigotry amongst the white British, which, if true, would potentially tarnish the product being advertised.

Just about every complaining utterance in this thread strongly demonstrates bias and rank bigotry from a minority of white British people against black (or otherwise coloured) people.

”unconscious”, bifuc!  It’s blatant in this meretricious thread.

 

 

[antrin]

17 minutes ago, W6er said:

Black history is an exclusive celebration of one race's history! You might claim everyone can celebrate it, but the people you are celebrating have to be black. Try celebrating the achievements of Oliver Cromwell or Winston Churchill and you will surely be told they're not black.

You’re slipping into lunacy, here.  Uk tv and media are never done celebrating that c**t, Churchill… and amazingly enough - none of them bang on about him being white, nor are there reams of complaint about him not being black!  

Careful, now!

You think that highlighting historical black oppression at the hands of whitey, which is what a large portion of black history is, and providing a history month to exclusively celebrate one race's achievements helps reconciliation?
it is helping educate - only with education and knowledge comes understanding and acceptance.

I'd suggest it's likely to foster resentment in both communities. If you want to build a cohesive nation don't emphasise the historical grievances between different peoples or conspicuously promote one group over another. 

Some people have always felt that way about other groups, such as Catholics, Jews, Scots, iIrish.

it’s the cheesy old “divide and conquer” trash trotted out yet again.

I truly don’t believe in YOUR preferred way of “keeping people in their place”…

 

[antrin]

20 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

I am afraid that type of thinking is now cancelled. Unless you admit that you have white privilege and pay homage to the anointed you will be thought of as a heretic. 
 

why does one section of society get a month to celebrate their history? Simple answer to that , BLM ideology. 
I wonder what Mr King would make of it all.

“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” – Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

 

I missed this example of sloppy, bigoted thinking.

Mr King would think it sad (but not unexpected) that -obviously given the content of some of these posts - that day he dreams of is still a long, long way away.  

 

[W6er]

I cannot quote your posts, @antrin, due to the way you have responded to mine.

However, it appears that you're not willing to debate reasonably and instead have attempted to distort what I have written in order to portray me as prejudiced:

Quote

What’s the basis for you not wanting to simply see black people on tv? (For a change).

Commenting on the overrepresentation of black people in television adverts is not the same as not wanting to see black people on television. If you do not agree with my observation, I simply suggest you watch an advertising break and see for yourself.

Quote

You’re slipping into lunacy, here.  Uk tv and media are never done celebrating that c**t, Churchill… and amazingly enough - none of them bang on about him being white, nor are there reams of complaint about him not being black!

They're celebrated as part of Black History Month? Really? My point was that it is exclusive, as it literally celebrates historical figures who're black. That is its purpose.

Do you support the two state solution to the ongoing problem in the Holy Land? If you do, ask yourself why that is. I would suggest it's because separating the Israelis and Palestinians is the only way that the situation is likely to be resolved peacefully. A nation needs a common identity to unite all the people. That's very easy in a homogeneous society, with a shared history.  However, when you have animus between two groups of people you will quite possibly end up with a situation like Northern Ireland (and that's two white, Christian groups from the British Isles), Israel, Ethiopia, Sudan and Yugoslavia, to name but a few. Like it or not, the UK has become a diverse state and I feel uncomfortable with the continued highlighting of historical grievances, or the promotion of identity politics; it is unhealthy and divisive. 

In the absence of religion, many folk seem to publicly champion trendy causes, pushed by the media, to demonstrate their virtue; I can understand that. However, I feel we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.  

 

[antrin]

I’m not willing to debate reasonably!  

I explained why a black history show was perfectly valid and made economically sound sense to portray black people on tv.

You said that was speculation, so I explain that I had worked in the industry and did know a bit about it.

You shifted focus to whinge about too many of “them” on adverts.

So I thought - as you seem to not concentrate/focus at all well that I'd respond to your concerns, one by one… so you could do better - but now you cannot cope with that, either!

It’s really not at all difficult to copy and paste my quotes in order to respond, if you really believe you have a decent response to offer.

I believe I’m try to debate reasonably. Just because I disagree and explain why you may be wrong, does not render me unreasonable, I think.  Annoying….  . Aye. Mibbees….

 

There are scores of tv productions that I never watch.  I don’t bleat about them.  I’m not anywhere in the LGBT+ range but I seldom watch tv shows focussing on that, but I also don’t get het up about it taking up my tv time.  
And I honestly don’t believe shows of that sort “continue highlighting of historical grievances, or the promotion of identity politics; it is unhealthy and divisive. “ It's the opposite - they show we’re all Jock Tamson’s bairns and should live and let live.  

Same with Strictly, pudsey bear, secret singer(?), soap operas, some shite Scottish and Irish so-called sit-coms.

I know how to change channels.   
 

I also suspect none of those shows will lead us into an occupied Palestine situation… whereas, people like you angrily trying to suppress such self-expression is a recipe for ill-feeling.  At minimum.

 

Beyond our Ken gave you a get-out above - reminding you of the multiplicity, variety, kaleidoscope of choice on your screens.  till you prefer to double-down on what appears to 

 

[stlucifer]

3 hours ago, W6er said:

Black history is an exclusive celebration of one race's history! You might claim everyone can celebrate it, but the people you are celebrating have to be black. Try celebrating the achievements of Oliver Cromwell or Winston Churchill and you will surely be told they're not black.

You think that highlighting historical black oppression at the hands of whitey, which is what a large portion of black history is, and providing a history month to exclusively celebrate one race's achievements helps reconciliation? I'd suggest it's likely to foster resentment in both communities. If you want to build a cohesive nation don't emphasise the historical grievances between different peoples or conspicuously promote one group over another. 

 

I would go further If we seriously want to bring us together then let's get beyond the concept of "different peoples". I don't consider anyone living in Scotland as different peoples. We need to get away from this idea that a different hue means a different section of people. It may seem fanciful but I long for the day when the colour of a person's skin is treated like the colour of their eyes inasmuch as it is only mentioned in an asthetic context. This is why I feel highlighting, no pun intended, one section of the nation, whether positive or negative, is both divisive and unhelpful.

[antrin]

1 hour ago, stlucifer said:

I would go further If we seriously want to bring us together then let's get beyond the concept of "different peoples". I don't consider anyone living in Scotland as different peoples. We need to get away from this idea that a different hue means a different section of people. It may seem fanciful but I long for the day when the colour of a person's skin is treated like the colour of their eyes inasmuch as it is only mentioned in an asthetic context. This is why I feel highlighting, no pun intended, one section of the nation, whether positive or negative, is both divisive and unhelpful.

Burns night, St George’s day, (Andrew, Paddy and Dave), 4th of July, StMirin’s day. (And St Mirrren’s day) - and a myriad other things that highlight different backgrounds and culture are part of what makes this an interesting country to live in.

We should get rid of all these?  All aspects of our difference?

Stop showing programmes about hill-walking in Scotland in case it offends flat-earthers in Suffolk?  Stop showing weather forecasts of floods expected in Cornwal whilst Wick basks in sunshine?  Stop showing Coronation Street in case Scousers get pished off and stop showing kids tv about Wombles in case the Clangers take the huff?

Aye, I’m being silly - only way to respond to this anti-black nonsense dressed up as faux-concern.

(sorry didn’t mean to drive a wedge between any of us by using a French word, in there…)

Edited October 30, 2023 by antrin
Sp

[stlucifer]

1 hour ago, antrin said:

Burns night, St George’s day, (Andrew, Paddy and Dave), 4th of July, StMirin’s day. (And St Mirrren’s day) - and a myriad other things that highlight different backgrounds and culture are part of what makes this an interesting country to live in.

We should get rid of all these?  All aspects of our difference?

Stop showing programmes about hill-walking in Scotland in case it offends flat-earthers in Suffolk?  Stop showing weather forecasts of floods expected in Cornwal whilst Wick basks in sunshine?  Stop showing Coronation Street in case Scousers get pished off and stop showing kids tv about Wombles in case the Clangers take the huff?

Aye, I’m being silly - only way to respond to this anti-black nonsense dressed up as faux-concern.

(sorry didn’t mean to drive a wedge between any of us by using a French word, in there…)

Now you ARE clutching at straws. All of those mentioned have absolutely nothing to do with colour. But you knew that. The very events you mention are celebrated by folk  of all different shades because we ARE a multicultural nation. They are the things that unify, not single one section out as different.  Most are celebrations of national pride and, as far as St. Mirin's day is concerned. You must be alone in the phone booth celebrating that.

The rest is just REAL nonsense.