Lord Pityme Posted January 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, bazil85 said: That makes zero sense. How does it protect Man U by extending his contract then if it’s just a mutual thing? Ac Milan could still come in and get him for free and challenge it through the courts if they’re not enforceable as you keep saying. I’d say I’ve given you a very clear example where it undoubtedly says ‘Manchester United have taken the option’ no mention at all about it being mutual. You haven’t provided one shred of evidence to your claim. Onto you. 4 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: By signing the original contract, the player is effectively agreeing to the condition and therefore it is, technically, by mutual agreement. The point is that it is at the club's prerogative to exercise the clause in the contract. If you go into a shop that is advertising a BOGOF offer, then the shop is agreeing up front that you can do this, however, it is your prerogative whether or not to take up the offer. By signing the contract, the player is effectively saying that the club can extend their contract by a year but that the club doesn't have to, if it doesn't want to. I can only repeat these are not my opinions but facts of UK law. If a player challenges a contract extension in the correct timeframe, even though he signed the contract with that clause in it, should player and club fail to agree the player can go to court and will win his case as he can prove in every instance seen thus far that (lets say in Davis's case if Celtic came in for him) that the original club were restricting his freedom to trade (he could make more, play at a higher level in europe with Celtic). and that his freedom of movement was being unfairly restricted by the original club effectively insisting he stays, plays and suffers inferior terms to that offered by shellic. i get the player wilfully signed the contract with an extension clause in it, but if in the last six months of the original term he indicates he wants to leave the club, the extension is in uk courts not enforceable. if you want to see what real player power looks like feast your eyes on what one of our very own achieved a few years back. "A dark day in scottish football" was what his original club called the verdict. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_ruling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 I think I will stick cotton buds in my eyes. This Thread is torture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPAFKA Jersey 2 Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: Thats lovely, but again, again, again.... it doesn't tell you if it was a UEO or mutual agreement to extend fir another year, and given the feckin wages Fellini is on, even if it was a UEO by the club, he'd be bonkers to challenge it. again, again, again... you still cannot cite one example of a UEO being enforced in a UK court.... reason being thete isnt ONE..! Man Utd, Southend Utd, Ayr Utd..... can put whatever they damn well pleasy in a contract, me and you can draw up our vey own contract and sign it.... but if the content isnt legally enforceable it aint worth the paper its written on. Now, I'm not saying there isn't an example of a UEO being enforced (I have little motivation to go searching for one). However, have you ever stopped to think that the reason for the apparent paucity of examples, might be because they are perfectly normal and no one has ever felt the need to challenge one. You know, people just agreeing to honour their contract. Novel thought I know. Edited January 11, 2018 by TPAFKA Jersey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desnold Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 24 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: I can only repeat these are not my opinions but facts of UK law. If a player challenges a contract extension in the correct timeframe, even though he signed the contract with that clause in it, should player and club fail to agree the player can go to court and will win his case as he can prove in every instance seen thus far that (lets say in Davis's case if Celtic came in for him) that the original club were restricting his freedom to trade (he could make more, play at a higher level in europe with Celtic). and that his freedom of movement was being unfairly restricted by the original club effectively insisting he stays, plays and suffers inferior terms to that offered by shellic. i get the player wilfully signed the contract with an extension clause in it, but if in the last six months of the original term he indicates he wants to leave the club, the extension is in uk courts not enforceable. if you want to see what real player power looks like feast your eyes on what one of our very own achieved a few years back. "A dark day in scottish football" was what his original club called the verdict. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_ruling Specifically, it states that any player who signed a contract before the age of 28 can buy himself out of the contract three years after the deal was signed. If he is 28 or older the time limit is shortened to two years.[ You do realise that Mr Davis's contract is for a period of less than three years? The defence rest's their case m'lord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Desnold said: Specifically, it states that any player who signed a contract before the age of 28 can buy himself out of the contract three years after the deal was signed. If he is 28 or older the time limit is shortened to two years.[ You do realise that Mr Davis's contract is for a period of less than three years? The defence rest's their case m'lord Aye... but as i clearly stated this was a different example of a player refusing to extend a contract, whose lawyer/agent actually got the termination date wrong, but still won their case. nice to see you confirm you are on the 'defensive' and still cant show an instance of a player rejecting a signed contract extension, and being made to fulfill it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 33 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said: Now, I'm not saying there isn't an example of a UEO being enforced (I have little motivation to go searching for one). However, have you ever stopped to think that the reason for the apparent paucity of examples, might be because they are perfectly normal and no one has ever felt the need to challenge one. You know, people just agreeing to honour their contract. Novel thought I know. Professional footballers and 'Honour'...? nope ... dont recognise them as an item when money is the motivator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 38 minutes ago, shull said: I think I will stick cotton buds in my eyes. This Thread is torture. Go on... believe in yourself... go for a Guinness World Record and trying stuffing at least fifty five in each eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desnold Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Just now, Lord Pityme said: Aye... but as i clearly stated this was a different example of a player refusing to extend a contract, whose lawyer/agent actually got the termination date wrong, but still won their case. nice to see you confirm you are on the 'defensive' and still cant show an instance of a player rejecting a signed contract extension, and being made to fulfill it. So not an actual example? I was really looking forward to the actual example and all you have done is use an example which does not fit the criteria under the discussion you started. Go on, have another go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Lets turn all this on its head and consider a very real possibility..! If a 'bigger' (more wages etc) club comes in for Davis, before any extension is signed/enacted do you think the club will be able to insist he stays, or at least picks up a fee if he goes? or will he simply be able to move to said 'bigger' club..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Desnold said: So not an actual example? I was really looking forward to the actual example and all you have done is use an example which does not fit the criteria under the discussion you started. Go on, have another go For the umpteenth time... there isnt an example to quote. No club (in uk law) has been able to enforce a properly contested contract extension. See the post above, perhaps we might get a first hand look at that come may..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: Aye... but as i clearly stated this was a different example of a player refusing to extend a contract, whose lawyer/agent actually got the termination date wrong, but still won their case. nice to see you confirm you are on the 'defensive' and still cant show an instance of a player rejecting a signed contract extension, and being made to fulfill it. You've completely screwed your argument, it very much is time to give up I'm afraid Mr Pityme. 1. The Fellani transfer - You said it doesn't state if it was mutual, it very clearly states Man U took the option. 2.You saying that Fellani would be mad not to allow it because of his wage. That contradicts your whole argument. Him allowing it does not protect Man U at all if what you say is true. An interested party could simply go through the courts to confirm it wasn't lawful . Lets be honest Man U lawyers are going to know more than you. 3. Webster law is completely unrelated, it's clear clutching at straws. 4. If it was categorically illegal in UK law you'd be able to show evidence which you've failed to do. Put up or shut up time I'm afraid for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: Lets turn all this on its head and consider a very real possibility..! If a 'bigger' (more wages etc) club comes in for Davis, before any extension is signed/enacted do you think the club will be able to insist he stays, or at least picks up a fee if he goes? or will he simply be able to move to said 'bigger' club..? If there's a year extension clause in the contract then yes. See Fellani situation. Man U triggered it to protect their interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 It's like having Dickson back but he's now mainlining Red Bull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: For the umpteenth time... there isnt an example to quote. No club (in uk law) has been able to enforce a properly contested contract extension. See the post above, perhaps we might get a first hand look at that come may..? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/01/04/manchester-united-extend-contracts-four-players-12-months/ http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-utd-news-contract-fixtures-14119288 http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11685/10883898/west-ham-trigger-option-to-extend-adrians-contract-until-2019 Oh Lordy Lordy Lordy Some would say a bigger man would hold his hands up to overwhelming evidence he's wrong when said man has provided none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) All great Basil... but where is your silver bullet..? just one case where a player properly challenged an extension clause in uk law, but lost.... c'mon... just one! edit: do you know what the procedure is in all the cases you have quoted (and in every case) of clubs extending player contracts..? if they wish to trigger/enact that clause they have to inform the player, who then has to agree (sign extension) or not...! The power as always drops right back in the players lap. If he's had/gets a better offer what do you think happens then..? Edited January 11, 2018 by Lord Pityme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northstbuddie Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Zzzzzzzzzzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: All great Basil... but where is your silver bullet..? just one case where a player properly challenged an extension clause in uk law, but lost.... c'mon... just one! edit: do you know what the procedure is in all the cases you have quoted (and in every case) of clubs extending player contracts..? if they wish to trigger/enact that clause they have to inform the player, who then has to agree (sign extension) or not...! The power as always drops right back in the players lap. If he's had/gets a better offer what do you think happens then..? Well that's nonsense, a couple of those very clearly state the club has decided. One says after deliberation the club have decided to do it. I have now provided several examples where THE CLUB has taken the decision to extend the contract based on a clause in the contract. Not one of those stories says it's mutual agreement. Not one, just one, not one. What you're basically saying is you know better than legal advisers at Man United, West Ham etc and that what they're doing is not legal and wouldn't stand up in court. Again I have provided evidence that contract extension triggered by clubs exist. We're all waiting for what must be very clear legislation that this isn't legal... In your own time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: All great Basil... but where is your silver bullet..? just one case where a player properly challenged an extension clause in uk law, but lost.... c'mon... just one! edit: do you know what the procedure is in all the cases you have quoted (and in every case) of clubs extending player contracts..? if they wish to trigger/enact that clause they have to inform the player, who then has to agree (sign extension) or not...! The power as always drops right back in the players lap. If he's had/gets a better offer what do you think happens then..? One example where they have challenged and won under these circumstances? Webster ruling was a ruling based on the length of his contract, nothing to do with extension clauses. Go on just one... Edited January 11, 2018 by bazil85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 26 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: All great Basil... but where is your silver bullet..? just one case where a player properly challenged an extension clause in uk law, but lost.... c'mon... just one! edit: do you know what the procedure is in all the cases you have quoted (and in every case) of clubs extending player contracts..? if they wish to trigger/enact that clause they have to inform the player, who then has to agree (sign extension) or not...! The power as always drops right back in the players lap. If he's had/gets a better offer what do you think happens then..? Evidence please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desnold Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 59 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: For the umpteenth time... there isnt an example to quote. No club (in uk law) has been able to enforce a properly contested contract extension. See the post above, perhaps we might get a first hand look at that come may..? So if, as you say, no club has been able to enforce a properly contested contract extension then there is no legal precedent then your argument would require it to be in Statute. Perhaps you could direct us to the Act of parliament where this is written into UK law? In any case, when it comes to the year end, the club are going to take up their extension and if someone else comes in for him a transfer fee will be required if he wants to go. I imagine somehow along the lines of when a development fee is required if the club have offered a new contract. So, we are running away ahead on hypotheticals I'm just going to enjoy watching him for the rest of the season and if he's here next year then magic. Signing off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Jesus wept, this thread has become absolutely f**king brutal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 29 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: Does the player need to sign anything? It is part of a contract that he has already signed. I would imagine that the club would only have to inform the player in writing that they are exercising their right under the existing contract which the player has already agreed to and signed. Yep, exactly right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, Drew said: Jesus wept, this thread has become absolutely f**king brutal It's amazing the number of comments posted by people that don't want to get involved in the debate. If a thread doesn't interest you don't post. An interesting fact about a discussion form, different people like discussing different things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, bazil85 said: It's amazing the number of comments posted by people that don't want to get involved in the debate. If a thread doesn't interest you don't post. An interesting fact about a discussion form, different people like discussing different things... That may well be true. It doesn't, however, take anything away from the fact that it remains f**king brutal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, Drew said: That may well be true. It doesn't, however, take anything away from the fact that it remains f**king brutal I think it's pretty interesting. It's a very curious notion that someone will let their pride get in the way of overwhelming evidence they're talking rubbish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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